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Hard Damage Rings for a Heavy Damage Melee or Ranged


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Regarding why to shop for these?

 

It's because nothing beats out socketing hard damage rings at a certain level.

 

Here's how this was found out... a while back, when the mp breakthrough happened that Ascaron allowed players to shop in Niobium with level one toons... all of a sudden we started having players socketing all niob smith arts in sockets for all our toons.

 

I went with this trend for a while, but one day around goldish level this really sweet damage rings with great secondary stats appeared (drop I think) and BAngo! Damage just exploded with that one switch out... played with this a bit... and discovered that if I just forgot about using niob smith arts around goldish level and then shopped for best of class niob damage rings... damage was unstoppable.

 

heh, never wondered why to figger out why a complete socketing of damage rings were beating out smith arts... until one day me and Schot were talking about this and he figgered something out.

 

There is a hidden multiplier who's effect on our damage (dryads anyway) that grows and that has a larger and larger effect on our damage as a character goes up in levels and is built properly. At low levels the multiplier is almost non-existent...but at higher level around goldish, this multiplier begins to compete with our socketing smith runes...

 

Dom dom dom dom...

 

Combat Art Levels!

 

Combat Art levels for Dryads and other melee, ranged, don't really have any base damage in it... our damage is coming from equipment.

 

At low levels, the smith arts are acting as wonderful multipliers and are acting upon her base damage, weps and what's in her armor.

 

If you are building the dryad correctly and for damage like I do... you begin to find that massive levels of Darting Assault are beigining to come from the Detheya's Agility... and these Combat Art levels begin to compete with the smith arts as a multiplier.

 

Answer?

 

Around Goldish level, if you're socketing smith arts, start to start shopping Damage Rings and begin replacing them...guaranteed you'll see the difference.

 

Have fun.

 

:(

 

gogo

 

p.s. Course, add this Regeneration per hit and you'll really have some fun :(

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I can't believe I missed this, been waiting to see it ever since I read your chats that day on HC free play.

 

Question?

 

If I start shopping for these at say level 75 ( thats a good Gear Upgrade level) what would you say is a good , better, best ring or ammu for Damage X-X to compete with Noib Smith ares of around 37%. I find small ones. and did every socket with 10-10 to 13-13 rings and didn't do as well as the smith arts in every socket. So.... I assume I need bigger damage rings.

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It's kinda complicated and the way you make your build has a big impact. Before the dawn of "regen per hit" we all had to carefully monitor our Combat Art regen times. The most typical way to do this was to keep the Combat Art level low and try to modify damage through other means. This meant that a level 100 build could easily be fighting with a very low level Combat Art and that the Combat Art's multiplier was not competing very strongly against Whet allowing for a sort of extended expiry date if you will.

 

I was actually surprised at how sensitive the balance is. When I began playing an Shadow Warrior for the first time gogo got me onto the damage rings. By the time I was near level 100 I was still using Whet and gogo was sitting there telling me, "Just dump'em dude! It's aaaall about damage rings now." But I had become too comfortable in Whet's convenience. "But Whet has always been there fer me?!" ^^

 

We had a similar effect in Sacred Underworld. A level 10 player could ask another player to help them forge Niob Whet into their gear. The process was a bit more complicated than what we have now but the usefulness in Niob smith arts was about the same. It was primarily a Silver Difficulty strategy. Probably useful till about level 80. After that I don't think I would use Whet in more than 2 sockets.

 

However there is one major factor between S1 and Sacred 2 that changes the game quite a bit. As gogo said, low level players can shop in Niob. So here's a question for your question loco.

 

The damage rings you're finding at the merchants. Are they Niob damage rings or Gold damage rings? The thing with the way gogo and I make our comparisons and judgement calls on what to forge is that we are always comparing Niob Whet to Niob damage rings. Since we have so many different levels of niob shoppers we're able to build outside of the norm.

If we were comparing Niob Whet to Bronze, Silver, Gold and Plat damage rings then Niob Whet will probably win a majority of the time. Though as any melee/ranged character progresses in levels its a good idea to occasionally swap out a Whet socket for a damage ring socket. All in all you Combat Art's multiplier plays a big role so if you suddenly jack up your Combat Art level then it might be time to add in more base damage with damage rings.

 

Spell damage is a whole other story. Spell damage IS base damage and needs to be multiplied. Still working out the details on that one...

 

 

Great post gogo! Very important info.

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Awesome explanation Schot. So...... since I am trying to replace Niob Whet that Gogo did for me, I would need to be shopping for Niob Rings. Got it!. that explains why I see a down turn right now with damage rings I have.

 

And if I am still at low level Combat Art's the multiplier isn't there yet either.

Edited by locolagarto
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Does this multiplier apply to all melee classes or its just for the dryad?

 

To unlock this so called multiplier do you to eat runes untill a certain level or +skills will suffice ?

 

It would be runes or +combat arts. no certain level the hight your Combat Art level the better the multiplier. also the higher the regen, which is were all skill, aspect focus, regen per hit come into play to control regen. That is why schot is estimating level 100 or so. thats when you have your gear together, your regens are under control, and your Combat Art levels are rising.

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I can speak only for magic coup:

If I do a full melee approach I modify for damage and socket CtH. So I found out that around level 100 when I had 10 sockets for damage (rest for defense and CtH) that 7 or 8 niob damage rings and rest whet smithing was best for me.

A sure hit modifying instead damage turned the ratio to like 5 x-x damage and 5 whet.

 

Playing hybrid the stuff gets more complex: CtH sockets are useless for your spells, while Whets affect both, ... so a sure hit modifying of magic coup is better for hybrids.

 

And that was only the elf which has a single weapon Combat Art. And even for an elf its not easy to decide.

 

For other classes:

A hard hard gets more damage from the combat art than an all-around attack,... so the hard hits would win earlier from x-x rings than the 'attack'-Combat Art.

 

Sometimes I replace a defense socket with a (x-x damage/- x% attack value of enemy) ring.

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Awesome explanation Schot. So...... since I am trying to replace Niob Whet that Gogo did for me, I would need to be shopping for Niob Rings. Got it!. that explains why I see a down turn right now with damage rings I have.

 

And if I am still at low level Combat Art's the multiplier isn't there yet either.

 

That's exactly what I was meaning loco. :)

 

 

Does this multiplier apply to all melee classes or its just for the dryad?

 

To unlock this so called multiplier do you to eat runes until a certain level or +skills will suffice ?

 

The multiplier I talk about in weapon Combat Art's isn't so much something that needs to be unlocked. It's a constant part of the Combat Art though at low levels it's weak. The importance here in identifying that weapon Combat Art's are multipliers is to distinguish how exactly a Combat Art contributes to your total damage. Attributes, X-X damage rings and Combat Discipline will increase your base damage while anything else that describes an increase in damage with a percent sign(%) will multiply existing base damage. Base damage "adds" and percent damage "multiplies the base". Ultimately percent damage needs base damage in order to work. So base damage is the main attraction here. ;)

The thing with weapon Combat Art's is that they don't display how exactly they are improving damage so it's through trial and error that we can see it is in fact percent damage, a multiplier.

 

To be honest I've only played with a Shadow Warrior and gogo's Dryad but I'm assuming based from those experiences that all weapon based Combat Art's simply multiply your base damage. In fact you could pretend that all weapon based Combat Art's are merely Whet in disguise. The damage part of Whet that is. In addition to that, the more you multiply your base damage the greater the diminishing return. I'm not exactly certain how/why there is dimishing benefits of multiplying your base damage but if I had to guess I would say that base damage rings scale up in values much better than Whet or Combat Art multipliers.

 

Something that is very important to keep in mind is that if we were only able to use Smith Arts from the difficulty our character belongs in, we probably wouldn't be using them at all. Smith Arts are actually comparatively weak to item you can shop for of the same difficulty. It's only because of premature Niob access that we use them. With that in mind, follow Chattius's careful attention to damage and maintaining a powerful balance of item modifiers. Whenever you decide to upgrade your gear you should always have two spare items with Silver sockets. One should have the best Whet in it and the other should have the best base damage ring in it. Try them on and compare the damage. Then go with whichever best improves you damage. As an example my Shadow Warrior has reached a point where not even a single socket of Whet +43% Damage is beneficial. I'm using all damage rings.

 

 

 

I can speak only for magic coup:

If I do a full melee approach I modify for damage and socket CtH. So I found out that around level 100 when I had 10 sockets for damage (rest for defense and CtH) that 7 or 8 niob damage rings and rest whet smithing was best for me.

A sure hit modifying instead damage turned the ratio to like 5 x-x damage and 5 whet.

 

Playing hybrid the stuff gets more complex: CtH sockets are useless for your spells, while Whets affect both, ... so a sure hit modifying of magic coup is better for hybrids.

 

And that was only the elf which has a single weapon Combat Art. And even for an elf its not easy to decide.

 

For other classes:

A hard hard gets more damage from the combat art than an all-around attack,... so the hard hits would win earlier from x-x rings than the 'attack'-Combat Art.

 

Sometimes I replace a defense socket with a (x-x damage/- x% attack value of enemy) ring.

 

That's a very attentive approach Chattius. It's what we should be doing. But man it is such a pain, haha. I hate upgrading because I know how careful I have to be and it takes so much time. I completely agree with your point on Hard Hit damage.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Schot, thanks, you really clarified exactly what is happening here with the mechanics. I just got to reading this now, pretty detailed walk-through. What I've been finding is that with the RPH, socketing any kinds of multiplicative modifiers is almost unnecesary now because we're able to eat SO many runes with RPH easily getting rid of the regen.

 

With RPH in abundance with Ice and Blood...I've been finding that, when playing with others on the server and monsters are very very tough to kill, a mix of socketed hard damage rings, eaten runes, and just enough Death Blow to match an enemy's level of hit points in mobs is enough to get the two hit kills.

 

Yes, two hits lol, I'm not as greedy as you are Schot for that one hit kill and will leave Enraged for you to tinker with

 

:P

 

gogo

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Gogo said no weapon Combat Art had base damage, but entry11 = {"et_weapondamage_poison", 60, 20, 6, 9 } looks like base poison damage?

 

Poison

Demonic_Blow

Mortifying Pillory

Frenzied Rampage

Ice

Spectral_Hand

Fire

Ruthless Mutilation

dragon form combat art

Physical

berzerkerform combat art

 

There seems to be at least 5 normal combat arts with elemental damage as a 'et_weapondamage_...' modifier?

Or is it added after the normal damage calculation?

The Wiki is confusing here: sometimes saying adding damage over time, then adding damage to a hit and as a third possibility adding % damage.

 

Base damage for spells?

Shame on me, but even after 16month sacred2 I never played a pure caster build. So to learn about caster builds I decided to play a shadow warrior caster(!). I am the opinion that you learn best if it is challenging, just like in soccer: you learn nothing against a team which you can beat 20:0. But a challenging 4:3 against an equaly strong team you remember for years.

 

So I plan the shadow warrior. I know that fighters win from damage x-x rings in higher difficulties. So I wondered if this could be transferred to mages. But all I know to boost the base damage of a spell is spell level and intelligence. So the question is: will there be a time when it is better to socket some +intelligence gear instead x% damage? Or is the base damage from a spell already enough? Thats is ithe reason I try shadow warrior, it seems to have only 'weak'spells, id est lose base damage.

 

Will the jump-attack win from +combat art range?

Should I use spell intensity gear?

How is ancient magic working: on mitigation, on resistances or on both?

Should I wear damage type changing gloves?

Edited by chattius
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Gogo said no weapon Combat Art had base damage, but entry11 = {"et_weapondamage_poison", 60, 20, 6, 9 } looks like base poison damage?

 

Poison

Demonic_Blow

Mortifying Pillory

Frenzied Rampage

Ice

Spectral_Hand

Fire

Ruthless Mutilation

dragon form combat art

Physical

berzerkerform combat art

 

There seems to be at least 5 normal combat arts with elemental damage as a 'et_weapondamage_...' modifier?

Or is it added after the normal damage calculation?

The Wiki is confusing here: sometimes saying adding damage over time, then adding damage to a hit and as a third possibility adding % damage.

 

Base damage for spells?

Shame on me, but even after 16month sacred2 I never played a pure caster build. So to learn about caster builds I decided to play a shadow warrior caster(!). I am the opinion that you learn best if it is challenging, just like in soccer: you learn nothing against a team which you can beat 20:0. But a challenging 4:3 against an equaly strong team you remember for years.

 

So I plan the shadow warrior. I know that fighters win from damage x-x rings in higher difficulties. So I wondered if this could be transferred to mages. But all I know to boost the base damage of a spell is spell level and intelligence. So the question is: will there be a time when it is better to socket some +intelligence gear instead x% damage? Or is the base damage from a spell already enough? Thats is ithe reason I try shadow warrior, it seems to have only 'weak'spells, id est lose base damage.

 

Will the jump-attack win from +combat art range?

Should I use spell intensity gear?

How is ancient magic working: on mitigation, on resistances or on both?

Should I wear damage type changing gloves?

 

Chattius, I think the same as you - you don't learn a lot from easy challenges.

 

From what I've read about +combat art range, it only affects Area of Effect, but I don't have any good testing for this.

The same for mitigation, I don't think AM will reduce this (test in PvP:)) Resistances, definitely.

 

I have a theory about hard damage rings and damage-type gloves.

 

The physical damage bonus from hard damage rings never changed my damage for any Temple Guardian spells, BUT, with the battery with lava socketed increased Firey Ember! (icecrystal-->Icy Evan., etc) So with Plasma Core(base fire dmg) + 2 hard damage rings, and with lava damage converter socketed, Firey Ember damage was increased, by a generous amount (good, but not GREAT). But with hard damage socketed in armour sockets (or worn), it didn't work. This I have fully tested and confident in my observations.

 

Of course, this is for console version.

 

So I was thinking that for a class with the type-changing gloves, since there is no "damage" associated with the gloves (like with the battery) MAYBE hard damage rings in armour sockets will be changed by the gloves?

 

The Shadow Warrior might be tricky to test this (I'm not good with Shadow Warrior combat arts, so I don't know which ones are "spells") but maybe an Elf? Just to be certian the theory is sound. Of course, with the Shadow Warrior "weak" spells, if the trick works, it will be more noticeable.

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So I was thinking that for a class with the type-changing gloves, since there is no "damage" associated with the gloves (like with the battery) MAYBE hard damage rings in armour sockets will be changed by the gloves?

Yes, but that should only affect weapon-based attacks, not spells (them being non-weapon-based Combat Arts).

 

Edit: Just checked & no, socketting +x-x damage rings & a fire converter in the battery doesn't affect Firey Ember damage on the PC (Ice and Blood 2.65.2). Stated damage on the tooltip was 500 without the battery equipped & ~600 damage done to some wolves, same damage with the battery equipped (it had two 48-48 physical damage rings socketted & an 80% damage converter, it was a Battery of the Demiurge so no other useful mods)

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Is strength adding to base damage?

 

Did some quick test with different strength based weapons to see if

strength is adding base damage. All test were done naked withpout tactic lore

or any other modifier giving x% damage. (Test are in AddOn)

Normal attacks
weapon_type base_damage strength_46 str_53 shown_46 shown_53
2h sword	49-66	   +24		 +28	70-94	73-99
sabre	   33-41	   +11		 +12	43-53	44-55
halberd	 46-65	   +17		 +20	60-86	63-89
barehanded			  +4		  +5	 18-18	19-19

So far it could be rounding errors. the 2h sword had part magical damage,
so rounding errors could be bigger there.

Averaged damage
2h Sword
 +24 +28
57.5  82  86

Sabre
 +11 +12
37   48  49.5

halberd
 +17 +20
55.5 73  76

So if I average the damage and round up it seems to fit. Strength seem to

be added to the average damage.

 

Different weapon types have different strength bonus.

 

If you compare halberd and sword you see that the weapon damage is nearly

the same, but the bonus from strength makes a big differrence. The low

bonus from strength to base damage if fighting barehanded means that doing

strength for a kungfu character is not needed.

 

Is demonic blow getting base damage from poison modifier?

 

Demonic blow before adding poison damage with the 2 handed sword from before:

 

125-165 physical, 13-22 magical

modifying for extra damage

125-165 physical, 13-22 magical, 18-18 poison damage

 

18-18 and leaving the other damage types untouched, this looks as if it adds

base poison damage and not per cent as it is shown in the wiki. Same is probably true

for all the combat arts mentioned a few posts earlier:

 

Poison

Demonic_Blow

Mortifying Pillory

Frenzied Rampage

 

Ice

Spectral_Hand

 

Fire

Ruthless Mutilation

dragon form combat art

 

Physical

berzerkerform combat art

 

There is a base fist damage

At level 8 there seems to be a base damage for fighting barehanded of 14-14.

It should be tested if this climbs with character level or difficulty.

 

To Do

For which of the 5 Combat Art's will it be useful to modify for more elemental base damage.

Which character ideas could use it: unarmed Shadow Warrior, unarmed Inquisitor, ...

The wiki should be corrected for these 5 modifiers.

Edited by chattius
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Is demonic blow getting base damage from poison modifier?

 

Demonic blow before adding poison damage with the 2 handed sword from before:

 

125-165 physical, 13-22 magical

modifying for extra damage

125-165 physical, 13-22 magical, 18-18 poison damage

 

18-18 and leaving the other damage types untouched, this looks as if it adds

base poison damage and not per cent as it is shown in the wiki.

The poison damage should be a % of base (ie, it adds a % as a different element, rather than converting a %).

 

Edit: The relevant line in the Spells.txt file is:

entry6 = {"et_weapondamage_poison", 40, 10, 4, 9 },

So that's either adding 4% of base +1% per level, or +4 damage +1 per level (probably then modified by Tactics Lore).

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So I was thinking that for a class with the type-changing gloves, since there is no "damage" associated with the gloves (like with the battery) MAYBE hard damage rings in armour sockets will be changed by the gloves?

Yes, but that should only affect weapon-based attacks, not spells (them being non-weapon-based Combat Arts).

 

Edit: Just checked & no, socketting +x-x damage rings & a fire converter in the battery doesn't affect Firey Ember damage on the PC (Ice and Blood 2.65.2). Stated damage on the tooltip was 500 without the battery equipped & ~600 damage done to some wolves, same damage with the battery equipped (it had two 48-48 physical damage rings socketted & an 80% damage converter, it was a Battery of the Demiurge so no other useful mods)

 

Crap! This is the main reason I didn't want to defrag my PS3. 8(. My test characters are gone. OK, I can assume maybe then that it was the "natural" base fire damage on the Plasma Core that was increasing Firey Ember's damage. I defnintey rember the test. No equipment. Firey and Icy at same level, so same damage #'s. I equipped the Core and Firey damage increased/was now higher than Icy. Core was socketed as you had your Demiurge (obv. #'s were different). Since Demiurge Battery has base magic damage, maybe Charged Grid damage increases? Sorry to be a pain about this, but I thought I was sure.

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So if I test with different weapons I should notice that the poison damage varies with the base damage of the weapon ?

 

From which base it will be calculated if I have a multidamage weapon? Just the physical?

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So if I test with different weapons I should notice that the poison damage varies with the base damage of the weapon ?

 

From which base it will be calculated if I have a multidamage weapon? Just the physical?

 

If different weapons (but ONLY physical damage on them) change the poison damage, then I believe that for a multidamage weapon, it would be calculated from total damage of the weapon. The modifier should be acting like a "bonus", not conversion like Llama said.

 

It looks like from your pre-mod and after-mod numbers for your 2H sword, the bonus poison damage is ~10% of the TOTAL damage. (Physical + Magic damage)

 

18 damage added from base total damage of 187 (rounded down). Of course, I think this 10% corresponds to the second number in the code after et_weapondamage_poison. But then I have no real idea what the code means.............. 8\ Just a guess.

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On console these rings are easy as pie to find at lower levels... although the damage bonus is negligible. I have yet to see any with decent additional stats though. Even a small damage boost from these rings can be pretty noticeable when dual wielding.

Edited by Scrappy McSlap
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Crap! This is the main reason I didn't want to defrag my PS3. 8(. My test characters are gone. OK, I can assume maybe then that it was the "natural" base fire damage on the Plasma Core that was increasing Firey Ember's damage. I defnintey rember the test. No equipment. Firey and Icy at same level, so same damage #'s. I equipped the Core and Firey damage increased/was now higher than Icy. Core was socketed as you had your Demiurge (obv. #'s were different). Since Demiurge Battery has base magic damage, maybe Charged Grid damage increases? Sorry to be a pain about this, but I thought I was sure.

It's entirely possible that Ascaron changed the way things worked after the console build so that the battery doesn't increase damage now on the PC (which vaguely rings a bell).

 

18 damage added from base total damage of 187 (rounded down). Of course, I think this 10% corresponds to the second number in the code after et_weapondamage_poison. But then I have no real idea what the code means.............. 8\ Just a guess.

The first number is the base (level 1) value & the second is the per-level increase (so at level 1 you have the base + 1x the per-level increase), and it's usually 10x the in-game amount. So if that's a %, then the level 1 figure should be (40 + 10)/10 = 5%. If it's an absolute amount it'll be +5 damage.

 

Edit: The third figure is which mod it is (1 = bronze top mod, 2 = bronze bottom mod, 3 = silver top mod, etc), not sure what the 4th number is.

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Just tested while we had a storm: it is 18 poison damage: weaponless, sword, axe, .... So the base damage of a weapon has no impact, at least in AddOn PC.

So I think it is a added poison base damage. Splitted damage seems to be different in the AddOn now. Damagetype modifiers only affect physical damage?

So the poison base damage may be nearly useless ( absorbed from enemy armour) if you don't socket poison the same moment?

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The first number is the base (level 1) value & the second is the per-level increase (so at level 1 you have the base + 1x the per-level increase), and it's usually 10x the in-game amount. So if that's a %, then the level 1 figure should be (40 + 10)/10 = 5%. If it's an absolute amount it'll be +5 damage.

 

Edit: The third figure is which mod it is (1 = bronze top mod, 2 = bronze bottom mod, 3 = silver top mod, etc), not sure what the 4th number is.

 

So, maybe 4th number is modifier damage, per level. I didn't see anywhere what level Chattius' Demonic Blow was when he got 18 damage. If it was level 2.... it would make sense.

 

Of course, if Tactics Lore is already picked, it could be modifying the base poison damage to end up at 18 as well. From our initial observations, the base poison damage seems to be nearly useless (with out more poison conversion and poison damage +%)

 

Just another one of Sacred's "skill testers'? Choose this mod and it is nearly useless? Agreed if it was ice or magic damage, only a small amount is needed for secondary effect, but poison DoT is based on initial damage....

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The first number is the base (level 1) value & the second is the per-level increase (so at level 1 you have the base + 1x the per-level increase), and it's usually 10x the in-game amount. So if that's a %, then the level 1 figure should be (40 + 10)/10 = 5%. If it's an absolute amount it'll be +5 damage.

 

Edit: The third figure is which mod it is (1 = bronze top mod, 2 = bronze bottom mod, 3 = silver top mod, etc), not sure what the 4th number is.

 

So, maybe 4th number is modifier damage, per level. I didn't see anywhere what level Chattius' Demonic Blow was when he got 18 damage. If it was level 2.... it would make sense.

 

Of course, if Tactics Lore is already picked, it could be modifying the base poison damage to end up at 18 as well. From our initial observations, the base poison damage seems to be nearly useless (with out more poison conversion and poison damage +%)

 

Just another one of Sacred's "skill testers'? Choose this mod and it is nearly useless? Agreed if it was ice or magic damage, only a small amount is needed for secondary effect, but poison DoT is based on initial damage....

 

Just had a look & at level 1 the poison damage is 4 regardless of what the equipped weapon is (so it's not a % modifier based on weapon damage) without Tactics Lore. level 31 FR gives 161 poison damage (again with 0 Tactics Lore). level 32 Tactics Lore (+101.5%) gives 205 poison damage which is only a 27% bonus... level 32 FR with level 32 Tactics gives 214 poison damage.

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I think it was CA_level 4, no tactics, combat discipline, items,...

 

Tactics, combat discipline, combat art, x% damage on equip, inqui buff... is raising the percentual damage.

Base damage is weapon, damage x-x, attribute belonging to the weapon, Combat Art-modifier(?)

 

If you play niob you probably have a percentual increase of around 2000. Let's take a knife with 200 base damage and 50 damage from dexterity.

very simplified calculation:

damage is: (200+50)*(1+2000/100)

 

Let's say you have one empty socket and can either socket +40% damage or damage 30-30.

(200+50)*(1+2040/100) or (200+50+30)*(1+2000/100)

 

5350 to 5880 damage. The damage x-x wins.

 

There are rings like damage 46-46/+27.7% damage. They are really nice.

 

For my melee elf I had a rough formula.

If you can buy damage 1x-1x use one ring, damage 2x-2x two base damage rings, If you can get damage 3x-3x rings wear 3 and so on

I was using 10 sockets for damage, rest was for defense and hit chance. And I compared damage x-x rings to a whet blacksmith art of a niob smith.

Edited by chattius
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