Skill progression formulaes

[Spunky 16]

Your rough SB calcualtions seems to be right as I have 98% with around 750 hours played.

[Antitrust 32]

Wait, now I remember teh mathz... I should have used 1=, not 100=. But that doesn't work out with simple mathematics, and I can't be bothered to remember proper ones

 

99% however should be achievable in 594 hours, not 833 though.

[nokka 0]

For the sake of legibility, I'll call UBpivot 'Tp' and SB < 1:

 

SB = T/(T+Tp) so T = Tp*SB/(1-SB)

 

Some key values:

SB=50.0% --> T=6h (this is the pivot value: 21600s=6*3600s=6h)

SB=75.0% --> T=18h

SB=90.0% --> T=54h

SB=98.0% --> T=294h (for Spunky)

SB=99.0% --> T=594h (=34.75d)

SB=99.9% --> T=5994h (=249.75d)

and lastly,

SB=99.99% --> T=59994h (=6y10mo)

SB=100.0% --> T=infinity (sorry, Antitrust. ;P)

 

If people get numbers larger than these, remember to consider T is Alive Time (if your chars are saved on your PC you can look these numbers up in your save .txt and it's actually called "Alive Time"), so don't forget to consider the time's in the city, the times there're no opponents, and afk times.

 

Because the pivot time is exactly 6h, would it be better to change the formula to:

"SB = T/(T+6), where T is your Alive Time in hours"?

 

Also, small side note about the modifier "SB increase":

Because the function flattens out for large times, the higher your Alive Time is, the less use this modifier is to you:

Examples with a modifier of 50% faster SB increase:

SB=50.0% --> SB=60.0%

SB=75.0% --> SB=81.8%

SB=90.0% --> SB=93.1%

[Slevin 10]

I'll calculate some values with the SB of my chars when I'm at home. So your formula means that the values of the alive time and the Sb in the wiki where not correct?

[Antitrust 32]

Yeah I was thinking of limits that would give something like infinity. The thing is, you can increase the pivot value and it will get you a round 100% bonus, which should still be impossible...

 

So your formula means that the values of the alive time and the Sb in the wiki where not correct?

No dude, you're looking at the wrong wiki We're playing Sacred 2 here

[chattius 2,522]

So UBpivot is the time you need to have half the maximal SB (UBmean= 500 = 50% ?). And this UBquot-att is the percentual raise of attributes at full SB?

Pivot, mean, ... all this remembers me about pivot search in matrices in statistics classes

[nokka 0]

Sadly no. No infinity. v.v

I went into the .txt file and changed UBmean to 999 (orig. 500) so that after 6h of gameplay I'd have 99.9% and looked at a char with 8.2h alive time.

It did say his SB was 100.0% - which surprised me at first - but then I just figured they rounded up.

 

The way I see it, they have the function SB(T)=T/(b+T) and a point through which this curve passes: (UBpivot,UBmean) I.e. SB(UBpivot)=UBmean

Then they give b depending on UBpivot and UBmean. But still, no matter how you manipulate it (I even tried UBmean=110%) they won't let you go over 100%.

 

Although, irrelevant math bit, if they had allowed 110% as a pivot value, the limit still would have been 100%, meaning my SB would decrease to 100% with time. And sometime around 1963.64sec, my SB would have been undetermined (infinite either way), but up until this time, it would be negative - more and more so as it approached these 1964 sec.

 

So I say it's a lot less crazy, given the circumstances, to cap it at 100%. ^^

[Antitrust 32]

Okie if that's confirmed in-game, you should add it to the wiki

 

As a side note, the pivot value was changed to this value in patch 2.4. Before that it was 10800, and console players are probably still using it.

[Slevin 10]

So your formula means that the values of the alive time and the Sb in the wiki where not correct?

No dude, you're looking at the wrong wiki We're playing Sacred 2 here

 

Oops, shame on me.^^

[nokka 0]

Okie if that's confirmed in-game, you should add it to the wiki

No dude, you're looking at the wrong wiki We're playing Sacred 2 here

There is no wiki page yet for SB in scared 2, right?

[Slevin 10]

There is no wiki page yet for SB in scared 2, right?

 

Here is one but not with a alive time / SB table

[locolagarto 15]

There is no wiki page yet for SB in scared 2, right?

 

Here is one but not with a alive time / SB table

 

 

I just realized that the time table page was for Sacred 1. Do you think the time table would be different for sacred 2?

[Spunky 16]

Indeed, with one of my chars in S1 I had 270 hours total time played and 97% SB, and in Sacred 2 750 hours and 98% SB.

[nokka 0]

So lemme get this straight: In SacredUW the 50% value was 2h. For Sacred 2, they raised it to 3h. And now? In Ice and Blood? They set it to 6h:)

Cold... Just.. Cold.

 

On a slightly different note, I've added a short mention of the formula on the SacredWiki.

Please tell me what you guys think of it. Too confusing, too bookish, too.. blah.. I appreciate feedback! ;D

 

Also, if you've got a formula, you don't actually need a table.

[Schot 407]

I'm looking over everything nokka. Just need to get it all worked out, haha. I've not spent any time on this so it will take me a while to get up to speed.

[Antitrust 32]

Nice

 

Maybe not a table, but a small list so that people can see it with a glance. Plus, it's not like we can get to our online characters' save files and look up the alive time

 

Maybe something like this:

 

* 50% - 6 hours

* 70% - x hours

* 90% - x hours

* 99% - x hours

[Spunky 16]

it's not like we can get to our online characters' save files and look up the alive time

 

Isn't that possible now that we have the export button in Ice and Blood?

[nokka 0]

Possible, yes, but bothersome nonetheless, even for those who care...

I'll go ahead and add a table. I guess 25% 50% 75% 90% 95% 98% 99% should do, right?

 

Edit:

List added with the above values. AND I noticed that Munera already translated my addition of less than an hour ago!

Man, the people here are fast!

Edited January 13, 2010 by nokka

[Schot 407]

A table at the bottom of the page with the equation right above it would be the best of both worlds.

[nokka 0]

A table at the bottom of the page with the equation right above it would be the best of both worlds.

 

Done!

Your wish is my command!

[Antitrust 32]

it's not like we can get to our online characters' save files and look up the alive time

 

Isn't that possible now that we have the export button in Ice and Blood?

Oh yeah, totally forgot about that

[Schot 407]

Very nice nokka. Very impressive work you are doing. Thank you very much to you as well as you other number crunchers. ^^ Can you add the work on skills you have to the Combat Discipline page nokka? I'd like to see how well my head will wrap around it, haha. We can start with that as a place to work on and develope and go from there. Teach away teacher!

[nokka 0]

I've added a small paragraph on the Combat Discipline page, where I give the two formulas.

I didn't want to ramble on about the way the formula works, so as

a) to keep the information concise, and

b) to not scare away readers with a degree of explanation that I find to be unnecessary on the wiki page.

 

I think the best way to incorporate this information into the wiki would be to add to every skill page a small paragraph like I did on the CD page.

It'd be a lot of copy-paste-copy-paste work, but it wouldn't really take too long.

 

I'll do it just as soon as I can make sure the paragraph is worth the trouble, so if you guys could take a look and tell me if I said too much or haven't said enough, I'll edit it and as soon as you're happy with the content and the form... copy-paste-copy-paste it is!

[Schot 407]

Ok, this is cool. One thing I would ask is if you could calculate the resulting variable for Combat Discipline at level 74 in long hand form. That way the reader will really have an understanding of the work you've done nokka. Also... How did you come to the conclusion of 3000 and 4500 as variables for Combat Discipline? Are those numbers used in the files? I have read over the topic but still can't see how you came to those numbers.

[nokka 0]

I've added the example for lvl75.

 

As for how I got the numbers 3000 and 4500 I didn't read them off of any file - if you know which file btw pleeease tell me!

The short version is "curve fitting tool"

The long version: I assumed the function to be of the form a*(x+b)/(x+c), then copied in the full chart data to let a curve fitting tool run on the problem, expecting relatively round numbers. When I saw the values were very close to 3000 and 4500, I assumed Ascaron wouldn't be so masochistic as to take a value like 2997.5 to be their limit and called it 3000. I let the curve fit run again with the variable replaced by 3000 and wrote down the values you see in the fraction (by the way, that 100 is actually a 100.1 for example).

 

I hope this answers your question.