The Secrets of Getting Legendaries in Sacred 2

[Eternalspirit 0]

That said, even though it's just a resistance relic, just having found the legendary is pretty super awesome. Has anyone else found resistance relics in the past as legendaries?

 

I would assume that the majority of Legendaries found are relics... judging from this thread. IMO, they are the most "useful" of them... well since Kal'dur's was relegated to Unique with the expansion

 

Yeah, I've seen the legendaries that have been found, and honestly I'm not too impressed with a lot of them. Some of the rings are very, very nice, like the Second Ring, but otherwise.. meh. Seems like more for bragging rights, haha. Either way, it's pretty exciting!

[Zaraki 0]

It does make a difference though if it is hardcoded or if it's not. If it's hardcoded, then it would suggest EP is useless in finding legendaries. If it is not, the EP might assist with that. It might be difficult to measure, since as someone pointed out already, 100% increase in a .001 chance to find a legendary only increases the chance to .002 (did I do correct math? I suck at math!). But even if the benefit EP provides is small, it still may be worth taking the skill. So I guess what I'm asking is whether we can say with any certainty whether EP is useless in legendary item hunting?

[Eternalspirit 0]

It does make a difference though if it is hardcoded or if it's not. If it's hardcoded, then it would suggest EP is useless in finding legendaries. If it is not, the EP might assist with that. It might be difficult to measure, since as someone pointed out already, 100% increase in a .001 chance to find a legendary only increases the chance to .002 (did I do correct math? I suck at math!). But even if the benefit EP provides is small, it still may be worth taking the skill. So I guess what I'm asking is whether we can say with any certainty whether EP is useless in legendary item hunting?

 

Ok, here's the problem with making any statistical conclusions about finding legendaries. Generally, the smaller the chance to drop of something, the larger the sample size needed in order to conclusively determine a drop rate. This sample size would need to be tens of thousands of players recording their frequency of legendaries after finding 20-30 of them, at least. Taking the average of this, we can determine what the actual drop rate of legendaries is. However, if you go from person to person in this sort of sample, individual results will vary wildly. Some people will be finding them every 200-300 kills, on average, and others may take longer. So many things must be taken into consideration with this: MF, SB, map revealed, etc.

 

As far as whether or not the chance to find legendaries is hard coded? I highly, highly doubt it. That would be a very idiotic way of programming that. As seen from results posted earlier in this thread, it clearly is not anyways. I saw one list that had legendaries drop within 15 kills and within 700 kills. The number of kills absolutely has nothing to do with it. They probably did it in a very similar way to Diablo 2, where each monster has a treasure class (in Sacred 2's case, the tiers that they can drop from), and then each item has a specific chance to be rolled when the game decides what tier the monster will drop an item from.

 

Obviously, I don't have any conclusive proof of this, but it is the most likely scenario based on my experiences of the many RPGs I've played that have random loot tables.

[Zaraki 0]

It does make a difference though if it is hardcoded or if it's not. If it's hardcoded, then it would suggest EP is useless in finding legendaries. If it is not, the EP might assist with that. It might be difficult to measure, since as someone pointed out already, 100% increase in a .001 chance to find a legendary only increases the chance to .002 (did I do correct math? I suck at math!). But even if the benefit EP provides is small, it still may be worth taking the skill. So I guess what I'm asking is whether we can say with any certainty whether EP is useless in legendary item hunting?

 

Ok, here's the problem with making any statistical conclusions about finding legendaries. Generally, the smaller the chance to drop of something, the larger the sample size needed in order to conclusively determine a drop rate. This sample size would need to be tens of thousands of players recording their frequency of legendaries after finding 20-30 of them, at least. Taking the average of this, we can determine what the actual drop rate of legendaries is. However, if you go from person to person in this sort of sample, individual results will vary wildly. Some people will be finding them every 200-300 kills, on average, and others may take longer. So many things must be taken into consideration with this: MF, SB, map revealed, etc.

 

As far as whether or not the chance to find legendaries is hard coded? I highly, highly doubt it. That would be a very idiotic way of programming that. As seen from results posted earlier in this thread, it clearly is not anyways. I saw one list that had legendaries drop within 15 kills and within 700 kills. The number of kills absolutely has nothing to do with it. They probably did it in a very similar way to Diablo 2, where each monster has a treasure class (in Sacred 2's case, the tiers that they can drop from), and then each item has a specific chance to be rolled when the game decides what tier the monster will drop an item from.

 

Obviously, I don't have any conclusive proof of this, but it is the most likely scenario based on my experiences of the many RPGs I've played that have random loot tables.

 

I would have thought that this is exactly the case, or something similar. However, some people have said that EP does not affect legendary drop rates, as in, it doesn't factor in in calculating them. That's what I'm really curious about. Why would EP affect all other drop rates but not legendaries? If that conclusion was reached by simply not observing and observable difference in drop rates, then I don't think you can say EP doesn't affect it. But if there is another reason for this conclusion, like developer said so, or something, then I'm curious to know that.

 

Still haven't picked my last skill for my built. Was planning on EP till I read this thread. Now I'm leaning towards it again, but again, would just like some kind of confirmation that it has not been confirmed that EP doesn't affect legendary drop rates.

[Eternalspirit 0]

It does make a difference though if it is hardcoded or if it's not. If it's hardcoded, then it would suggest EP is useless in finding legendaries. If it is not, the EP might assist with that. It might be difficult to measure, since as someone pointed out already, 100% increase in a .001 chance to find a legendary only increases the chance to .002 (did I do correct math? I suck at math!). But even if the benefit EP provides is small, it still may be worth taking the skill. So I guess what I'm asking is whether we can say with any certainty whether EP is useless in legendary item hunting?

 

Ok, here's the problem with making any statistical conclusions about finding legendaries. Generally, the smaller the chance to drop of something, the larger the sample size needed in order to conclusively determine a drop rate. This sample size would need to be tens of thousands of players recording their frequency of legendaries after finding 20-30 of them, at least. Taking the average of this, we can determine what the actual drop rate of legendaries is. However, if you go from person to person in this sort of sample, individual results will vary wildly. Some people will be finding them every 200-300 kills, on average, and others may take longer. So many things must be taken into consideration with this: MF, SB, map revealed, etc.

 

As far as whether or not the chance to find legendaries is hard coded? I highly, highly doubt it. That would be a very idiotic way of programming that. As seen from results posted earlier in this thread, it clearly is not anyways. I saw one list that had legendaries drop within 15 kills and within 700 kills. The number of kills absolutely has nothing to do with it. They probably did it in a very similar way to Diablo 2, where each monster has a treasure class (in Sacred 2's case, the tiers that they can drop from), and then each item has a specific chance to be rolled when the game decides what tier the monster will drop an item from.

 

Obviously, I don't have any conclusive proof of this, but it is the most likely scenario based on my experiences of the many RPGs I've played that have random loot tables.

 

I would have thought that this is exactly the case, or something similar. However, some people have said that EP does not affect legendary drop rates, as in, it doesn't factor in in calculating them. That's what I'm really curious about. Why would EP affect all other drop rates but not legendaries? If that conclusion was reached by simply not observing and observable difference in drop rates, then I don't think you can say EP doesn't affect it. But if there is another reason for this conclusion, like developer said so, or something, then I'm curious to know that.

 

Still haven't picked my last skill for my built. Was planning on EP till I read this thread. Now I'm leaning towards it again, but again, would just like some kind of confirmation that it has not been confirmed that EP doesn't affect legendary drop rates.

 

There is no single person on this forum that can conclusively prove that EP does not affect legendary drop rates unless the developers said something. It is not possible for one person to collect enough data to conclusively prove this. My gut tells me that it does, simply because the developers took the time to include a skill like EP, why WOULDN'T it affect every drop? From a game development standpoint, that makes no sense whatsoever. There is barely enough time to get the entire game done, they aren't going to create different types of drop systems for different types of items.

 

Whatever the case may be, it isn't a bad thing to grab EP. There are many very good uniques in the game, and I have definitely noticed a very noticeable difference in unique drop rates between my seraphim, who has EP, and my TG, who does not. This is especially interesting since my TG's SB and map revealed are much lower than my seraphim's, so EP probably has a major part to play in drop calculations.

 

Moreover, even if EP affected legendary drop rates, you wouldn't notice any difference from one legendary drop to the next, so the point about not noticing much difference in drop rate tendencies is not a reliable way to prove that EP doesn't affect the drop rate, unless this conclusion has come from tens of thousands of boss runs with hundreds of legendaries involved. On average, if you see a legendary every ~500 kills, you might get one every ~450 instead. At level 200, it has nearly 400 MF, but again, as you said, that would only take the drop rate from 0.01 to 0.04. Still, it's much better than 0.01. You'll also get way more uniques and set items, so it certainly isn't a waste IMO.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Eternalspirit

[Dragon Brother 619]

As gogo said earlier, the 400-500 is more of an average. I mean, I went almost 2k kills without anything once...that was depressing. And then another time I got two tier 15 items (legendary and miniset) in the same run.

 

However, I don't think that anyone ever said EP had no effect, like you guys have said, its too hard to prove something like that, to me theyve more said it has negligible effect in hunting solo. From seeing the results of woody and barri's runs (2 people, maxed EP, massive +mf) and from the legendary hunting event we had (low level toons, high world discovered, high +mf, high EP, 5 in a party) I would say that EP and MF do definitely have some effect on the chance to find a legendary and you can significantly increase your chance of finding one.

[lujate 578]

Just curious, are you guys talking boss kills or Guardian kills?

[Dragon Brother 619]

Guardian+egg kills, easiest ones to count since there's 5 of them in the room.

[Eternalspirit 0]

Guardian+egg kills, easiest ones to count since there's 5 of them in the room.

 

Just out of curiosity, what is this Egg?

[lujate 578]

So you are talking about 100-400 Guardian runs?!? That must take a lot of patience and/or dedication.

 

The Egg is the large sphere in the center of the Guardians chamber. You can kill it, but I do not remember how.

[gogoblender 3,070]

You need a ranged weapon. We mostly use leech ranged to bring it down quickly to get as many runs done as possible in a day. One handed stars work awesome for this. Shop for three socket ones so you can stick in item mods to increase throwing speed.

 

 

gogo

[Dragon Brother 619]

So you are talking about 100-400 Guardian runs?!? That must take a lot of patience and/or dedication.

 

The Egg is the large sphere in the center of the Guardians chamber. You can kill it, but I do not remember how.

 

Well 400-500 kills means around 100 runs killing all 4+egg. If you make it to 400 runs without a legendary then that's very unlucky.

 

80-100 runs sounds about right, which if you can stomach 50 a day means 1 every two days on average...

[gogoblender 3,070]

80-100 runs sounds about right, which if you can stomach 50 a day means 1 every two days on average...

 

wow

DB that sounds so reasonable!

 

 

gogo

[Eternalspirit 0]

You need a ranged weapon. We mostly use leech ranged to bring it down quickly to get as many runs done as possible in a day. One handed stars work awesome for this. Shop for three socket ones so you can stick in item mods to increase throwing speed.

 

 

gogo

 

I thought the most sockets you could shop was 3..

[Woody 24]

You need a ranged weapon. We mostly use leech ranged to bring it down quickly to get as many runs done as possible in a day. One handed stars work awesome for this. Shop for three socket ones so you can stick in item mods to increase throwing speed.

 

 

gogo

 

I thought the most sockets you could shop was 3..

 

2 sockets for jewelry/smith arts and a socket for elemental damage modifier.

There is no 3 sockets items at merchants, only set items (and bunny ears ) can have so much sockets.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Woody

[Zaraki 0]

I was reading earlier in the thread that the egg was not killable or the items couldn't be picked up on the console version. Is this still true or has anyone found a way to accomplish killing and looting it?

[Dragon Brother 619]

It is killable, but only with difficulty and not worth it since you can't pick up the items.

[xcessive 55]

hey guys,

I am on the hunt for legendary drops now. my SW is level 154 and has 400+% MF equipped and another 80+% with EP at level 240.

I just wanted to bring the topic back up again. maybe I can get someone interested.

I play with CM Patch 150 and I am in the Sacred 2:Ice & Blood room in tunngle most of the time, even if I dont play. so feel free to add me there.

 

I already did 20 runs and was more or less lucky in the 3rd and 13th run: I already saw that promising orange color on the floor, but it was just an unlock item that dropped as "legendary" both times. so that doesnt count.^^

 

Edit: 31st run: the amulet of the kira-set dropped. had to check first, if that counts. aaaaand yes, its tier 15

Edit 2: 13 runs after Kiras Iridescent Shard: a wild "grumas insignia of power" appeared

Edited July 30, 2015 by xcessive

[Flix 5,116]

I suspect a some (maybe many) legendary weapons (true tier 15 weapons) are missing from some drop lists, which makes them even more rare than they should be.

 

Legendary jewelry on the other hand seem to appear in the same drop lists as any other unique jewelry. This might explain why the legendaries you're most likely to find are rings and amulets.

 

Take something like Roger's Raving Razor though, it only appears on one drop list as opposed to the usual four lists that a unique like Seyr's Blade appears on.

 

It may be intentional, but I have my doubts. Legendaries are already made very rare through the much lower drop probability in balance.txt, and a lower "weighted probability" in each item's drop entry. Having an item missing from a drop list entirely though, I think that's a bug, and may explain why many players have felt that trying to find a specfic legendary weapon is a fool's errand.

 

By contrast, all legendaries that were added with the CM Patch, Item Mod, and Diablo Mod, are present on the same drop lists as their corresponding uniques. They haven't been dropping like candy or anything (not sure I've seen any yet in normal untweaked gameplay), so I think that I should add the vanilla legendaries to the same lists as well.

 

Just putting that out there, for anyone that was pulling their hair out trying to find a certain legendary, I think some of them are just bugged and basically impossible to find in normal gameplay.

[xcessive 55]

when we think back at the beginning of sacred, when every char had 3 or later 6 sets and the amount of uniques was also (very) small, compared to what we have now with the CM Patch (+Items mod), the weighted modifier of the legendaries didnt have to "compete" against so many other items. so limiting them to special droplists wasnt a bug, I think.

 

Now that we have all this stuff, adding them to other droplists should be fine. as long as they only drop from bosses. otherwise they lose their value.

 

a little bit off topic: the droprates of the mutation sets where increased with the last CM patch, right? I did only find 2 or 3 before the patch and was VERY happy when I got them.

Now I got a few in just a few days. In my opinion their droprates became too high. Its not so "special" anymore to find one. And I dont want the same to happen with legendaries.

Edited July 31, 2015 by xcessive

[Flix 5,116]

After reviewing the drop lists all morning, it was definitely a bug. Leaving aside any later additions and just focusing on the original Ascaron legendaries, there's several legendaries that are just plain missing from most of the places they should be. For one example, take the legendary Moraya's Fire Sword. It's listed everywhere it should be (4 droplists). And this sword isn't common, now or ever. I've never even seen it actually outside of cheating to force it to drop.

 

Roger's Raving Razor, by contrast, is another tier 15 legendary 2h sword, and it only appears on one drop list. It's completely missing from the list of 2h swords, the list of rare+ weapons, and the list of all sword weapons. If the legendaries were all missing from the same lists, I would believe that it was part of their intended rarity. But some legendaries are simply only listed once when their comrades are in the expected places, and there's no rhyme or reason to the omissions.

 

By adding Roger's Raving Razor and some of these other bugged legendaries to the appropriate lists, I'm simply bringing them up to an even keel with the other legendaries, not making them common as uniques by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Mutation Sets are a different story. Silver Fox always thought we made the Mutation sets too common in the Item Mod, and wanted to put them somewhere between what they were and what they are now. They're not exactly common, but if you farm bosses, they may seem that way. They're on a "mini-set" droplist that's almost never used by normal enemies but that bosses seem to love to drop from.

 

I also added the pieces to the expected places like the drop list of boots, the drop list of helms, etc. In retrospect that was probably sufficient and I should have left them off the mini-set drop list.

 

Characters stacking Magic Find and farming bosses is still kind of an alien concept to me, as someone who like to optimize his character for combat, play quests and explore regions, fighting bosses only once per difficulty level. But now I realize it's a playstyle I should account for.

[xcessive 55]

haha moroyas fire sword is one of the few legendaries I got just by playing regularly xD

and I just found another mutation set 2 hours ago. yes they really seem too common now.

 

I like your ideas and hope that they will be implemented. this would definetly be a big improvement.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Characters stacking Magic Find and farming bosses is still kind of an alien concept to me, as someone who like to optimize his character for combat, play quests and explore regions, fighting bosses only once per difficulty level. But now I realize it's a playstyle I should account for.

I know that back when we were playing online, at some point towards the end when everyone already had their shopping networks, blacksmiths and other toons that wiped the map clean that there was a sudden resurge in interest in the game with hunting legendaries. Killing the nameless guardians and "egg" as quickly as possible to reset and do it all again, just to find that orange drop. It definitely added some fresh enjoyment to the game after it had maybe started to lapse a little in peoples attention.

[xcessive 55]

18 runs after Kiras Iridescent Shard: Ellens Commitment dropped. its one of the set rings u get for completing the epic office quest. I didnt know, that it could also drop from bosses.

I think the 400+MF in my armor and the EP on level 246 make it much easier to find legendaries. I believe its not pure luck, that I dropped tier 15 items after 31, 13 & 18 runs. and I expected only one of those every 80-100 runs.

what do u guys think?

 

Edit:

 

OMG this is what I call luck: directly in the next run I got Tristan's Companion, the ring from Bratgrimace's Legacy. :D

Edited August 5, 2015 by xcessive

[Flix 5,116]

I think that shows that legendary jewelry is much more common than weapons, because they're in the proper droplists for their type.

 

Preliminary results for adding the missing legendary weapons looks good. No noticeable change actually, but then I don't have tons of magic find gear. I just ran around killing as many bosses as I could.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Flix