Casting Speed - right click attacks, Attack Speed - left click attacks

[Schot 407]

Orrrrrrrr...

 

Any combat art that does not have an Aspect Lore will have it's execution speed improved by any Weapon Skill.

 

P.s.

You got it Munera! Attack speed only increases left click attacks. Execution speed only increases right click attacks.

[Munera 1]

Checked. Attack Speed Penalty from Weapons also apply to the execution speed, but only for Combat Arts w/o Aspect (get points from Tactics). Those which have their specific aspect lore won't suffer from it.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Munera

[Spunky 16]

Woody?

 

Schot, isn't that what I have been saying all the time that aspects without a lore would get it's execution speed from weapon lores?

 

I'm getting confused here

[Munera 1]

Woody?

 

Schot, isn't that what I have been saying all the time that aspects without a lore would get it's execution speed from weapon lores?

 

I'm getting confused here

 

yes, that's it. But before you called them weapon based Combat Arts. Not all Combat Arts within aspects without a lore are weapon based and viceversa

[Spunky 16]

Well, I was meaning to say weapon based aspects, so my fault there.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Wow...long discussion while I was asleep. Sounds like youve worked it out to me though. Nice work

[Furian67 14]

And like loco mentioned, this concept is very easy to see when you run a kungfu build. When I socket casting speed my raveged impact execution is visible much faster. At level 30 and below I was socketing attack and casting speeds to get the left and right clicks to bang really fast. Now with 4.0 rph I can flip till I'm dizzy.

[Born to kill 0]

I just read all the posts on this topic and made me very confused :Just_Cuz_21:

 

 

But theres one thing I want to know what effects combat arts like pelting strikes demonic blow frezied rampage ravaged impact dartling assult

 

Like just list everything that makes you do those combat arts like those faster please

[Spunky 16]

All the above mentioned Combat Art's get their execution speed from the weapon lore or +casting speed from gear.

[colif 36]

It just makes playing an unarmed Shadow Warrior that much harder since you have no weapon lore to increase execution speed (careful to use right words as enough confusion here already), lucky weapon lores don't stack or 2 weapon lore builds would be very powerful with this (though the stacking of bonuses would be enough I think).

[Spunky 16]

Your right about the confusion so you better watch out what you write or the whole thread will blossom up again

 

Equipping some +casting speed should do the trick for the Death & Malevolent Combat Art's without a weapon lore(just hope I didn't type something wrong again...).

Edited February 22, 2010 by Spunky

[essjayehm 58]

Your right about the confusion so you better watch out what you write or the whole thread will blossom up again

 

Equipping some +casting speed should do the trick for the Death & Malevolent Combat Art's without a weapon lore(just hope I didn't type something wrong again...).

 

 

Lessee if I can't confuse things even more!

 

My tests stem from the Temple Guardian and the Battle Extension combat art. ON FOOT. I noticed different results from riding the wheel.

 

All testing was done on Mad Dog, who didn't have any weapon lore. Tactis lore was not changed at all when these tests were done, so I cannot say if it has any effect (I believe the forum consensus was that it doesn't anyway...)

 

Anyone who has played the Temple Guardian and tried to use BE as an attack, notice that he has an animation to "activate" the extra arm, and as he is doing the attacks (looks kinda like seraphim's Pelting Stikes move). With the glitchy PS3 I noticed a "pause" between these 2 animations and wondered "whazzupwiththat?"

 

 

The first animation (he looks like he rears back and then the BE arm pops out) is definitely controlled solely by casting speed.

The 3-hit animation is definitely controlled solely by attack speed.

 

My tests with the other Devout Combat Art's have not been as obvious in the results. Except Combat Alert. It is controlled by casting speed (obv?)

 

My thought with this is the "activation" animations are so short on most "weapon-based Tactics Lore controlled" Combat Art's (is that the correct wording?) that it would be very hard to notice any change (especially when cast speed maxes at +50%)

 

[Munera 1]

Not weapon-based Tactics Lore controlled" Combat Art's, but Combat Arts within aspects than haven't got an specific lore skill (more info look at this). You're always making it more difficult!

Maybe the GT attack you mentioned is only a simple attack, have checked the damage? The other option would be that that hit is essentialy slower than the others. Increase your casting speed and try it again. If its still slower than the other hits (the third one) but faster than the first time, the Combat Art is like that.

[essjayehm 58]

Not weapon-based Tactics Lore controlled" Combat Art's, but Combat Arts within aspects than haven't got an specific lore skill (more info look at this). You're always making it more difficult!

Maybe the GT attack you mentioned is only a simple attack, have checked the damage? The other option would be that that hit is essentialy slower than the others. Increase your casting speed and try it again. If its still slower than the other hits (the third one) but faster than the first time, the Combat Art is like that.

Thanks for the link, that should make it obvious for anyone else still confused!

 

GT attack? I am sorry I don't quite know what you mean there. I was using the Temple Guardian Combat Art "Battle Extension". Definitely a right-click attack.

 

Yes, it is VERY much slower than most weapon-based Combat Art's.... so much so I avoided it a lot until my current Temple Guardian. Then I tested casting speed, and noticed a nice increase in the speed which he does the "casting" part of the Combat Art. You still need high attack speed for the "attack" part of this Combat Art to get best results.

[Munera 1]

GT attack? I am sorry I don't quite know what you mean there. I was using the Temple Guardian Combat Art "Battle Extension". Definitely a right-click attack.

GT is Temple Guardian in spanish. Damn, have to get used to the english names!

 

Try to increase the attack speed via modifiers, not skills. The Combat Art's execution speed shouldn't change. The third hit of the battle extension of the Temple Guardian has to be slower than the others, but only affected by casting speed. That's what I mean, the two first hits of that Combat Art are always faster than the third one, so it may seem they aren't affected by the same thing.

[essjayehm 58]

GT attack? I am sorry I don't quite know what you mean there. I was using the Temple Guardian Combat Art "Battle Extension". Definitely a right-click attack.

GT is Temple Guardian in spanish. Damn, have to get used to the english names!

 

Try to increase the attack speed via modifiers, not skills. The Combat Art's execution speed shouldn't change. The third hit of the battle extension of the Temple Guardian has to be slower than the others, but only affected by casting speed. That's what I mean, the two first hits of that Combat Art are always faster than the third one, so it may seem they aren't affected by the same thing.

 

Sorry, I saw GT and I will always insert "Gran Turismo" when I see that....

Munera, I believe we are on the same page, same paragraph and same sentence. But it feels like we're speaking different languages... ohwait, we do!

 

My tests were done without weapon lore, so all +attack speed was from modifiers. My observation was that the 3 hits were controlled ONLY by attack speed, but there is an animation that comes before the attacks (where he extends the Battle Arm) and that animation is controlled by casting speed. I have come to believe that all Combat Art's have a casting animation, it is just a very fast one for most of these Combat Art's that are weapon-based. Battle Extension has one of the slowest of these kinds of animations. I have also noticed it with Archangel's Wrath (when she flourishes the sword before the bolt(s) fire), but it has RT Lore affecting its "execution speed" so I didn't want to mention it before.

 

I noticed the delay between the 2nd and 3rd hits as well, it seemed consistent to me, and neither attack or cast speeds changed the delay. Maybe I just didn't have enough casting speed (was about +20%) to notice the difference.

[Munera 1]

Combat Arts aren't modified by attack speed, but casting speed. What happens to Battle Extension is the same as Frenzied Rampage when using a one-handed weapon, there is a delay before the last hit. The Combat Art is like that, the last hit is slower but affected by casting speed as all hits are.

[essjayehm 58]

Combat Arts aren't modified by attack speed, but casting speed. What happens to Battle Extension is the same as Frenzied Rampage when using a one-handed weapon, there is a delay before the last hit. The Combat Art is like that, the last hit is slower but affected by casting speed as all hits are.

 

OK... not from my observations, but you sound quite certian on this point; no need to argue, as I have not dedicated testing for this.

 

Could my observations be because I play console version?

[Born to kill 0]

All the above mentioned Combat Art's get their execution speed from the weapon lore or +casting speed from gear.

im quoting from page 2...

 

 

are the above combat arts effected by 'chance for double hit' on the lores like dual wield mastery or weapons with chance for double hit ?

 

if they are then now I would know how to make those type of combat arts REAL FAST like some I seen in videos

[Onslaught2k3 0]

Oh... then Attack Speed has no effect on Combat arts and Weapon Lore gives a hidden Casting Speed bonus?

 

I believe so. It seems to be a hidden value... Or Ascaron didn't get around to adding that to the tooltips, heh.

 

 

I thought it did say in the tool tip, or maybe I just compared the attack speed in tool tip to execution speed on Combat Art tool tip and put the connection together....

 

isn't there a cap on attack speed? Since there is at about 150%, would it be worthwhile to experiment using casting speed to go on top of the attack speed to affect overall execution? I mean for instance, with a seraphim's Dashing Alacrity and Inquisitor's FF Combat Arts respectively you reach the max attack speed or cast speed quite quickly. Though Combat Arts are cast regardless of their modifying skills, I don't feel there's much of a diff when using weapon-based Combat Arts and cast speed modifying items. It'd be nice to see an instant cast for instant pwnage though.

Edited May 2, 2010 by Onslaught2k3