Bicycle tours

[chattius 2,520]

We bought a second hand tandem and a kids trailer (which could transform into a tri-cycle) last summer when our 3rd suffered from borelliosis. It summed up to like 1700 euro. The 2 older's had their cross country racing bikes with a frame as old as 25 years (guess who was driving them then). We added the trailer with the third on our tandem and put the twins in transport bags and each of us parents attached one of the twins to either the back ot the belly.

We call the type of tandem Stufentandem, (Stufe = Step), picture is similiar but a bit older modell:

We had luck that we got it with a wind shield,so we could put the twins out of the wind. The old owner had a handicapped wife who sadly diseased and it was modified that the front person could use the hand and not the arms adding power. We transformed it back, so that the front person can be in any size from 120 to 190 centimetres and can use normal pedals. We found some picture seeing how such a bike can be driven by 2 adults or by an adult and a kid, or 2 teenagers, ... Very flexible we thought

When we drove on country roads most cars slowed speed and wondered about our caravan, without getting angry, mainly smiling.

 

The trailer looked a bit like this one, you can attach a third wheel easily so that it will be a tri-cycle. And the child can add to the power in its own speed, individual gears for the chain driving the trailer wheels.

When we found the picture we considered it a good long time investigation to buy such a tandem with a fitting trailer. As you can see both drivers can see the street, can easily talk with each other and can even kiss at low speed (proved )

 

So we considered to buy a second one , but prices at ebay exploded, and new ones cost about 5000 euro and more. Who told the secret that such a bike allows kissing?

 

The second hand one we have is from Hase-Bikes in germany.

I know that Bilenky in america builds something similiar, but in no way cheaper.

We know people who own a Strada:

But they are from flat netherlands and don't have the many hills. The Hase Pino weights no more than 18kilo. The Strada is nice, because the front person has not the frightening feeling and fear for the first drives that it will have no control over the bike. and sitting above the wheel. But too heavy

Anyone knowing other manufacturers?

[Bondbug 32]

Fantastic. Never seen such a thing so can't help. But Wow! Always wanted a tandem but they are so expensive and nothing like this magnificent model.

 

How heavy/light is the steering to manage? I take it the person on the back steers which I would have thought made control difficult. What controls, other than ejection seat and parachute, does the front passenger have? How tiring is the front pedalling action/position? Gearing? Brakes on all wheels?

 

Not a very helpful comment but I like the idea that the wife would hit the wall first, while I sail over the top.

 

Can you really tour with it? Looks more like a straight line dragster.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Bondbug

[Spunky 16]

Not a very helpful comment but I like the idea that the wife would hit the wall first, while I sail over the top.

 

Haha, you better not let your wife see that comment there though

[locolagarto 15]

Not a very helpful comment but I like the idea that the wife would hit the wall first, while I sail over the top

 

OMG. I want to say shame on you, but I can't stop laughing

[chattius 2,520]

Ever tried to move a bed by leaning at a wall with the back and pushing it forward with the legs? The front (stoker) can do more power than the captain at the gears, stearing and brakes.

So we often swap who is captain and stoker. I am at 1.92m 91kilogramm and my wife at 1.84 and 71kg. The higher position allows more control by moving the centre of gravity.

What is a bit problematic is rough terrain, since the sight to the frontwheel is hidden for the captain by the stoker. So obstacles have to be noticed a bit in advance.

 

Brakes 2 disc brakes front, U-brake back, all hydraulic. Only 14 gears, but all of them different, special made gearbox for tandems: Rohloff 14 gears. You can switch gears while standing uphill at a red light, very practical.

 

It isn't boring for the stoker, since the heads are close, you can speak easily, even in a noisy town, better than on a normal tandem and way better than on 2 bikes. Remember on a normal tandem he wouldn't have control and wouldn't see.

 

I don't think that we would have bought one, if we hadn't gotten it for that second hand price. The price is the problem we have now. The Rohloff gearbox allone would be at 800 euro. There is a do it yourself page to build such a tandem out of 2 normal bikes. But if you want to transport your kids: I don't trust this much in my teachnical abilities to build a SAFE tandem. The disc brakes have a reason: The loaden bike can reach easily 500pounds and is faster than a normal bike if we go full speed.

Edited April 23, 2010 by chattius

[locolagarto 15]

Nn

Ever tried to move a bed by leaning at a wall with the back and pushing it forward with the legs? The front (stoker) can do more power than the captain at the gears, stearing and brakes.

So we often swap who is captain and stoker. I am at 1.92m 91kilogramm and my wife at 1.84 and 71kg. The higher position allows more control by moving the centre of gravity.

What is a bit problematic is rough terrain, since the sight to the frontwheel is hidden for the captain by the stoker. So obstacles have to be noticed a bit in advance.

 

Brakes 2 disc brakes front, U-brake back, all hydraulic. Only 14 gears, but all of them different, special made gearbox for tandems: Rohloff 14 gears

You can switch gears while standing uphill at a red light, very practical.

So the stroker(throttle man) has to be a spotter as well. And captain(driver) has to really be working on control more than pedaling.

[chattius 2,520]

From wikipedia:

On conventional tandems, the front rider steers as well as pedals the bicycle and is known as the captain, pilot, or steersman; the rear rider only pedals and is known as the stoker, navigator, or rear admiral. On most tandems the two sets of cranks are mechanically linked by a timing chain and turn at the same rate. As time has moved on so has the use of 'Captain' and 'Stoker' as terms for riders of a tandem. As both are seen as riders the use of the words 'front rider' and 'rear rider' are far more descriptive to modern Tandem riders.

We used the word Heizer(heater). At old steam locomotives it was the one firing the oven. Which is nowadays a fitting word on a Tandem with a step. I think Heizer translates as stoker ?

Edited April 24, 2010 by chattius

[Furian67 14]

From wikipedia:

On conventional tandems, the front rider steers as well as pedals the bicycle and is known as the captain, pilot, or steersman; the rear rider only pedals and is known as the stoker, navigator, or rear admiral. On most tandems the two sets of cranks are mechanically linked by a timing chain and turn at the same rate. As time has moved on so has the use of 'Captain' and 'Stoker' as terms for riders of a tandem. As both are seen as riders the use of the words 'front rider' and 'rear rider' are far more descriptive to modern Tandem riders.

We used the word Heizer(heater). At old steam locomotives it was the one firing the oven. Which is nowadays a fitting word on a Tandem with a step. I think Heizer translates as stoker ?

Makes sense to me. I would like to see the picture of the real deal of your family all loaded up with the tric in the back and the twins strapped on. It must be a jaw dropping view.

[Bondbug 32]

Wow. Impressive stats.

 

We should all get to work on a gadget to give you sight of the ground just in front, but I suppose the "stoker" can give hand signals.

 

I support Furian's request for a fully loaded team pic.

 

It would be something to see a fleet of these coming along the road ..... club outing?

Edited April 25, 2010 by Bondbug

[chattius 2,520]

The reason we search for a second tandem is that the twins are now too big being 2 and a half. So we put them now in a trailer. But our third is not fully recovered from her borelliosis so she can't do long tours. We did a tour on sunday and I had her in a trailer on my normal bike, while my wife and our oldest had the tandem and the trailer with the twins.

 

The cost of a tandem has to be calculated versus:

We don't do voyages to other countries. We have a lot of animals and 5 kids. So out of our experience: It is hard to find someone looking for the animals for 2 weeks. You have to relax a week after doing a voyage in summer breaks as parents of 5.

In germany you have to be 18 to drive a car. Even my kids drive Porsche, Lamborghini and Mercedes as soon as they are 6, but that is on farm and forest roads which are forbidden for normal traffic. The Porsche has 18 horsepowers and the Lamborghini 11. Both tractors build in the 1950ties. The Mercedes is a Unimog, bought second hand from the army.

But if our oldest has to bring our third to her vaulting training she has to use the tandem for 4 more years. The tandem with its 40 pounds is also light enough to be used as a normal bike. You can also place a basket for shopping on the front seat.

 

On sunday we did a 40 kilometre round trip. We visited the town my mother grew up: Braunfels. It has a very nice castle:

We ate some ice on the historical marketplace which is surrounded by nice wooden patchwork houses. At afternoon we visited a nearby animal park. They are specialized to show animals which lived in germany at the time of the romans:

lynx, brown bear, wisent (european bison) ,elk/moose, aurochs (rebreeded heck-cattle),wildcats, otter, a re-breeded tarpan (an in 1909 extincted european wildhorse):

Edited April 26, 2010 by chattius

[Bondbug 32]

I can see that your family transport situation is worth a thread on its own, though many farmers must have similar problems where the kids are allowed to drive freely on your land but not on the highways.

 

Those castles of yours are superb. Thanks for the pic.

 

I thought the aurochs died out in Poland in the 18th century? And the tarpan. How do you re-breed extinct species?

[chattius 2,520]

By doing a breed which looks like the original. But is has different genes of cause. So the Aurochs was rebreeded by the brothers Heck and is nowadays normally named Heck-cattle. Same with the tarpan, the Heck's re-breeded it by mixing german and polish 'wild' horses.

german wild horse

 

There was a castle closer to my house, but it are mainly ruins nowadays: Burg Greifenstein

The picture is just a portal to the castle. And it is reported that it had 17.

A picture of Greifenstein of 1655:

 

I think if I do a circle around my house for 20 miles I can count 50 castles. It was an old border region and the main traveling roads crossed there. So every king and earl tried to control them.

Edited April 26, 2010 by chattius

[Dragon Brother 619]

I have to say, living that close to history must be amazing, its one thing we lack here in Australia having only been our own nation for just over 100 years, and white settlers havent been here for any more than double that so our history is nothing compared to the rich european heritage you get to experience.

[chattius 2,520]

But if you have to learn which of the 100 tiny german kingdoms fought on side of the emporor and which not in the thirty year war 1618-1648 it is a pain. Especially since several swapped sides several times. So at school I often wished I would live in a country with less history.

[Bondbug 32]

I remember being riveted by an book on the 30 years war. I even designed a board game to cover the whole thing with dates when people changed allegiance built in to it, but it got so complicated that it was virtually unplayable. I enjoyed drawing out the board for it with the states and their main towns and arranging the start positions and alliances.

[chattius 2,520]

Pentecosta sunday was travelling from one sport tournament to to the next, have 3 who do diffrent sports. Luckily the twins are still to young. At Monday we used our old Mercedes Transporter and a trailer to make a mixed canoo and bicycle tour. We drove to Wetzlar where my parents live. Waiting at the old market place till 2 more families joined.

We put our canoos into the Lahn river below the old Lahn-bridge.

Paddling downstream we passed the monastry of Altenberg

Looked at castle Braunfels from the river but didn't stop at Braunfels. We visited it already on several bike tours.

Our goal was Weilburg

It has the only tunnel for ships in germany. The slove around the castle mountain was tunneled for more easy transport of iron ore.

You can tell them to dim down the lights and it is a thrilling feeling for kids paddling in a dark tunnel.

 

We were visiting the old town of Weilburg on feet, watching germany's biggest house build from rammed earth.

 

We put the canoos on the Mercedes and unloaded the bicycles and tandems. We drove to the crystal cave at nearby Kubach.

 

We did some evening meal at the close animal park and watched the evening feeding of the bears and lynx at sun fall. My sister was waiting with the Van already and we loaded the bikes on the trailer and drove home. It was a very nice weekend and the reason I wasn't posting anything for 3 days.

[Rusto 0]

Think you could get that bike up here?

 

 

My dream holiday involves taking a Triumpth Daytona 675 along similar roads. Bit of a pain riding a naked streetfighter all the way down to the alps though, which is what I have right now. No fairings on the motorway is such a drag(har har).

 

Sorry about going off topic, but woah....

 

Edited May 25, 2010 by Rusto

[chattius 2,520]

Before we had kids we bought an euro-ticket once, the old one: 3 month free trains whole europe second class for 250 german marks. We took our bicycles and tents with us. Hardest mountain climbing with bicycles on that tour was norway: Trollstigen (ladder of the trolls).

 

Nowadays with kids, animals and work we are more or less limited to one day tours. Biggest hill we can reach in a day trip is around 900metres above sea level. We live at 340m above sea level.

The tandem isn't build for alpine mountains. Even ours has 2 disc brakes and 1 u-brake, all hydraulic. 2 persons and travelling bags are a lot of weight downhills.

 

Edit: had to search for Trimph Daytona. I have to admit that I am no longer uptodate with motorbikes as I used to be as a teenager or even a twen. When I was at army I had a BMW-Bike, which strangely still exists somewhere in our barn. But the restoration of the bike would have costed more money than a new bike. So it is there till I find time to repair it. It is the menpower which would be expensive, not the needed pieces.

I fear I bought my bike out of logical reasons (do I hear Mr-Spock speaking?). I needed a bike which would be quite fast on german autobahns but able to survive farm roads and would allow to travel europe. So I bought a third hand BMW R80 GS

Edited May 25, 2010 by chattius

[chattius 2,520]

We found this picture in the forum about our stepped tandem a week ago:

 

 

I asked the people at my work if they could imagine to design something similiar last wednesday. We had a handdrive for the tandem from the first owner of the tandem and we just had to modify it a bit. A big kickstand is attached on our tandem. The hand driven chain is foldable so our daughter could be lifted on the front seat without risc the bike will fall. The kickstand is really broad and should do weights up to 200kilogramm.

The hand driven chain drives the feet pedal too. A free wheel system will allow to rest a bit while the person in back does the pedaling. The handdrive is currently getting its powder coating at lunch break by one of my co-workers.

 

We hope that she will be able to train the legs without risc to overdoing it. The force has to be done with arms and the legs are just moved. In the tandem forum this construction was used by a couple were the girl suffered from paraplegia and could use arms but not the legs.

[chattius 2,520]

Our second currently recovers from surgeries following her car accident. She is at a special hospital at Munich, which is sadly 500 kilometres away from our home. So when she is back home we want her to drive bicycle again. With her old bike having a frame which I don't trust anymore (x-ray examinations after the car crash would be as expensive as a new frame) we need some quick solutions.

 

We need 2 different bikes, or a way to convert existing bicycles to our needs:

 

We need a transport for our oldest, which she can use to drive our third and the twins. So an idea is to use the Pino tandem from first post in this thread and add something like this:

 

 

I saw pictures that it is working with tandems:

 

And it can hold a number of kids:

 

If not needed to transport the twins it could be used to raise the wheel base of a mountainbike for more cargo at bike tours. All what would be needed would be chains of different lengths.

 

Anyone knows anyone who has experiences with wheel base extensions?

 

---

 

The second thing would be a new bicycle for our daughter who is currently at hospital. Lot of gears, gear shifting should be possible at a read light while standing, a frame with a low entry for leg, not becoming useless once she recovered, a robust frame for lot of cargo at bike tours (still 6 years till she can do a car license)...