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Timotheus

Character customization

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Timotheus    94

Okay,

 

There is some talk starting on character customization, which Ice&Blood introduced in Sacred 2 if I'm not mistaken.

 

It always is one of those first things everyone starts raving about when a game comes out. Does it has customization? Can I change my character? Can I choose the color of his/her hair, face, eyes?

For a lot of people it seems CC is the next big thing, while I admit I couldn't care less. I find it hard to believe anyone would really be upset if they are not allowed to decide whether my character looks better in purple with a rainbow colored afro or in green, bald, and a mustache? Let's get back to Sacred. I mean, since it's an RPG with a looootttt of loot involved, there are plenty opportunities to choose your own look and most of the characterization fails the second you start wearing armor and stuff like that.

 

Look at it this way: The Diablo franchise has had fun games. Character customization pretty much stopped at creating a name for your toon. Same with S1, and Sacred 2 pre-Ice and Blood.

We all know those have proven to be pretty successful games (a bit of an understatement in the case of the Diablo franchise...), and Sacred 1 captured the hearts of many of our players here. Take that into your mind, picture yourself playing one of the mentioned games. Now explain this to me please. Did anyone, at any stage, really sat in front of their pc thinking: this game could be so much fun, but since there is no character customization it isn't worth playing?

 

In my opinion, character customization is one of those very last things a game needs. One of those cherries on top.

To stay with that metaphor: First a game needs a good base, some big lumps of gameplay ice-cream. Then it needs some good storytelling whipped cream. On top, we put the graphics syrup. And then, finally, you get to a lot of other things which in my mind are the cherries. Not everyone needs them, some don't eat them sort of speak. It's not vital to a game to be a success, or to feel like a good game.

 

In short: I couldn't care less for customization myself, and I'm wondering why others do so much.

Somebody enlighten me :)

Edited by gogoblender

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Rndm    1

I agree with most of what you said, but I think if there can be more customization, why not? For characters like the SW & TG I don't think it's as big a deal, as they get helmets that cover they're faces/plenty of armor, but for characters with more revealing armor I think customization is more important (seraphim hair styles, high elf tattoo color, Inquisitor eye color, etc.). Mostly I think it's just cool to have the choice open to you (I would've liked making my SW look like the one in the shadow path pic).

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dreeft    9

As long as they aren't letting other areas of the game suffer to focus on customization, I am all for it.

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gogoblender    1,608

Character customization is awesome, if it's actually possible to create really new toons, ones that stick out from each other. I really liked what was offered in Guild Wars, as well what was offered in Requiem as customization choices... somehow though, I dunno, it just seemed like no matter what I chose for Sacred 2 they still looked the same.

 

 

 

:)

 

What really works is things like WAY more hair styles and tons of different facial structures. We had that in Guild Wars, and that really created a connection for me to my online toon. Maybe Sacred 3 won't go this way though...not if they think they're making us play historical figures?

 

:woot:

 

 

gogo

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locolagarto    14

One thing about Fable 2 was the super cool way that your characters features automatically morphed as you made good or bad choices in the game. the questing and looting was way more fun when there was consequence from your actions.(Either she got prettier for being good, or more evil looking for being bad)

 

That was very cool customization

 

After all it is Role Playing. So if we can customize the character we roll play, that's cool in my book.

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Timotheus    94

By request, I've updated my viewpoint in the OP. :girl_sigh:

Sorry you guys, was short on time yesterday and maybe I shouldn't have started the discussion the way I did.

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Timotheus    94

Sorry for the double post, I wanted to comment to the stuff in here separate from my previous post. :D

 

I don't really care for customization options because regardless of those options, a game can and should be good to be fun :P Diablo proved that, Sacred proved that, Sacred 2 did too. I hope S3 will as well, if they decide to skip the customization option I would not mind, but I wouldn't mind having the option either.

 

Customization options can be a lot of fun. Aside from creating some unique looking character.

 

I spent hours with a mate of mine trying to create the most ridiculous looking toons in games like Oblivion, Dragon Age, etc. :P Try to make 'em look like toads, or walking sticks with fish-eyes etc. Good times! lol

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candesco    0

Character customization isn't really necessary for gameplay purposes, but if it is worked out and it doesn't decrease the gameplay then why not. Now take The Elder Scrolls franchise and then especially Morrowind.

TES III: Morrowind is an example of good gameplay and with a nice option to customize your character. And with mods this is even expanded. Morrowind is still alive nowadays, due to the modding community and due to it's excellent gameplay. So character customization could be an improvement to a game. I doubt if it is really an improvement for Sacred 2, as you play here with prefab characters instead of making an own one. The option to change the hair color is funny though.

Edited by candesco

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Llama8    3
Character customization is awesome, if it's actually possible to create really new toons, ones that stick out from each other. I really liked what was offered in Guild Wars, as well what was offered in Requiem as customization choices... somehow though, I dunno, it just seemed like no matter what I chose for Sacred 2 they still looked the same.

In GW you could choose your "clothing"/armour/etc based on looks rather than effects (& then use runes/etc to give you the required effects), so if you wanted a particular graphical style in a particular colouring, you could do that without having to worry about whether you'd be gimping your character because the item you want to wear doesn't have the mods you want. IIRC, in GW all of the armour was made via crafting. As you know in Sacred 2, all the items you find have the mods on them, so if you want to wear a particular graphical style, you'd have to put up with whatever mods were on the item that you've found, so people are more likely to end up wearing a mishmash of graphical styles (unless they're wearing a full set).

 

During the beta we did suggest that there could be something in-game that could change the graphical style of an item you're wearing (but not the mods).

 

What really works is things like WAY more hair styles and tons of different facial structures. We had that in Guild Wars, and that really created a connection for me to my online toon.

Hair? Covered up by a helm (well, apart from a few helms, mainly for the female chars).

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Rndm    1
Character customization is awesome, if it's actually possible to create really new toons, ones that stick out from each other. I really liked what was offered in Guild Wars, as well what was offered in Requiem as customization choices... somehow though, I dunno, it just seemed like no matter what I chose for Sacred 2 they still looked the same.

In GW you could choose your "clothing"/armour/etc based on looks rather than effects (& then use runes/etc to give you the required effects), so if you wanted a particular graphical style in a particular colouring, you could do that without having to worry about whether you'd be gimping your character because the item you want to wear doesn't have the mods you want. IIRC, in GW all of the armour was made via crafting. As you know in Sacred 2, all the items you find have the mods on them, so if you want to wear a particular graphical style, you'd have to put up with whatever mods were on the item that you've found, so people are more likely to end up wearing a mishmash of graphical styles (unless they're wearing a full set).

 

During the beta we did suggest that there could be something in-game that could change the graphical style of an item you're wearing (but not the mods).

 

What really works is things like WAY more hair styles and tons of different facial structures. We had that in Guild Wars, and that really created a connection for me to my online toon.

Hair? Covered up by a helm (well, apart from a few helms, mainly for the female chars).

I like the way armor was handled in Too Human, each piece of armor has a primary and secondary color,which could be changed via dyes bought from vendors, so if your armor isn't all the same style at least it's the same color.

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One thing about Fable 2 was the super cool way that your characters features automatically morphed as you made good or bad choices in the game. the questing and looting was way more fun when there was consequence from your actions.(Either she got prettier for being good, or more evil looking for being bad)

The only issue with this is that, in some ways, it's out of the players' hands. (If you want to play a female character who looks hot, you're forced to go a certain alignment rather than just be hot in addition to whatever you plan to do.)

 

I like the way armor was handled in Too Human, each piece of armor has a primary and secondary color,which could be changed via dyes bought from vendors, so if your armor isn't all the same style at least it's the same color.

This has also been done in Fable and elsewhere: it's a very good compromise.

 

 

On to the more important thoughts...

 

Adding character customization to a game should have no impact on the rest of the product (other than devoting time and money, which is basically just an hour or two to set up the character customization programming plus the time necessary for the artists to draw the custom stuff). It's almost entirely an artistic product. Unless game is on a time crunch or a tight budget, I think there is a certain expectation for character customization in games that are trying to let you play as the character you want.

 

Does not having customization ruin a game? Not at all. Gameplay is ultimately what determines the quality of a game. But there's little reason not to include a customization feature.

 

 

Also, anyone who hasn't seen the magic of character customization should take a look at Champions Online (made by the guys who made Guild Wars, right?). Its character customization is leagues beyond anything else.

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Re: Dyes in Guild Wars. I dabbled in Guild Wars... and was very taken aback at some of the most expensive and difficult items in the game: dyes. A means of staining your clothes so that your toon didn't look like a beginner. A way to look different. Then along came the ideas of Guilds... Guilds that each had a different cape. Each Guild designed their own cape... so you could tell who was who based on their cape affiliation.

 

In a world of clones, looking different matters a lot.

 

Clearly, Sacred, (at least in SP mode) --clothes don't make the man. :superman:

 

I do like in D3 that each character can be male or female. Wish they'd done that in Sacred...but it would've doubled the modeling work, doubled animations for combat arts, etc. Huge cost for little gain. Glad they spent the money elsewhere.

 

Cheers

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Dragon Brother    434

I do like the guild wars style that you guys have mentioned. If you look in a server with a bunch of dryads for example, most of them have ancient bark and as much of detheya's set as possible...its like a whole bunch of clothes. Facial features I'm not too fussed about, I dont spend time looking at my toons face. However the armour is visible and if you could customise the coloring on it that would be cool.

 

Models...hmm...male and female...I dont know what I think about that...for some of the classes like the seraphim or inquisitor in Sacred 2 and back to underworld/S1, the dwarf/deamoness they seem to suit their gender extremely well. But a High elf? Dryad? Wood Elf...they could be swapped male or female and it wouldnt change their feel for me. So I think that they I would prefer that they come up with classes that you can really get a feel for and not think...why couldnt my <insert class here> be female or male.

 

EDIT: Deep Silver is going to be at E3 which is running from june 15-17...only a week away...if only we would actually get some info :superman:

Edited by Dragon Brother

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My opinion to all this is I don't like being a the same as eveyrone else like when you get into a partyand there all SW's or HE's I don't like looking the same as everyone else I like to be unique stick out instead of being a copy. Oh like that car commerical where it says don't be the copy be the original or something like tah ti forgot it but yeah I dont like being a copy of someone else just like the real world no one is the same and all of u are different. So yeah if CC doesn't mess with the intial game im all for it like Dreeft said.Anyways I think this will be a great idea in games,but it doesnt have to be in there to be a great game thats true.

 

 

-Shadow.

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neuromantik    0

Role playing is all about character customization; creating a character who looks exactly (or as close as possible) the way you want to look in the virtual world. In my opinion, it's one of the most important things - besides smooth, bug-free gameplay, naturally. And a good plot is a plus too, no question about it. I remember spending literally hours tweaking the looks of my character in Oblivion. I really enjoyed it. I hope to see a game, where you could pick from different body types too. Tall and lean or short and plump - or just plain fat. Hundreds of different hairstyles to choose from. Oh yes... :agreed:

Edited by neuromantik

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Mistle    0

I know I am new to the site but I was reading forums and thought I might add an opinion =). The first game I played with any character customization was FFXI for the PC, it offered basic things as head model, height, hair style and a face model. While I thought it was good it really wasn't as you would almost always see some one that looked just like you and that got really annoying. People like to make a char that is visually pleasing to them selves as well as others but we want to be different. World of Warcraft gave players that extra ability to actually make a character that unless some one else just flat out copied your model some how you would have a very low chance of seeing a character that looked like you out side of armor maybe. What I am getting at is the ability to have a toon that looks the way you want it makes any game that much more enjoyable because lets face it.. I'd rather have a nice looking character that I made basically if I am willing to sit in one spot for hours on end while how ever not sacrificing game play lol. :viking: <-- too much >.<

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SicNNasty    0

Though I do agree with the OP, gameplay, content, story, background... All of these should be the main focus in the developement of any game, I'm a sucker for customisation.

 

It takes me back to "Dark Stone", which, as far as I can remember, was the first rpg that I played, in which the different armor worn was displayed on the toon, instead of the toons skin merely upgrading itself to represent the strengh of its worn armor. I remember that from then on in, this was a must.

 

The resoning of it is really quite simple. From start to finish in any none "first person view" game, the one thing that you'll be seeing right the way through, is your toon. It's the one thing you'll always be looking at.

 

More than facial traits and morphology, the thing I really like to be able to customise is armor color, SacredII is a fine example of one of those games where armor just seems to look awful until you get your sets. I actually sometimes choose an item for its skin, sacrificing some optimisation so that my toon doesn't look like a walking rainbow.

 

I don't know, it probally just gives more of a connection to the said toon. I've always struggled with the Dryad because of her hunch backed, broad shouldered, quasimodo feel...

Edited by SicNNasty

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neuromantik    0
I actually sometimes choose an item for its skin, sacrificing some optimisation so that my toon doesn't look like a walking rainbow.

 

Same here. That must explain why my Seraphim has developed a nasty habit of dying. :D

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Hacksaw32    1

I never customize a character, I generally go with the default skin. I never pick items because of their skins, and I don't even really care much about the graphics. Game-play is everything to me.

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sEv_o6    0

Well, If a Game has some Blonde, Pupil-less , Pigtailed, High-Heeled,Sexy-looking,Jaw dropping,Face-palming Chick in it, Then Customization isn't Necessary.

For me at least, Since I started Playing Sacred, I cant Stop looking at her hair. It' Looks so cute.

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knightowlx3    0

what charachter costomization means to me is not skin deep in fact the beauty of sacred 2 was in your specific charachter builds and I can sacrifice lipstick for a dynamic build customization in my opinion should be focused on the skills / combat arts etc I think it would be realy cool if my skills proggress or can be upgraded /modified thats my 2 cents for what its worth iv got real love for this game its truly magical I hope sacred 3 will be able to fully captivate my imagination as sacred 2 still does

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I think in games like this, especially ones where you can play online, character customisation is important because it gives you a high sense of individuality. Something which I think alot of gamers appreciate when playing online.

 

As long as it doesn't break the game I am all for it one hundred percent.

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claudius    81

In my opinion character customization is important for role playing games. But lets be honest ARPG is not really a role playing game. But yet people know what it means. I think if they can give a little bit of customization while devoting very few resources then fine with me. But I don't expect them to have the type of customization as bethesda/bioware RPGs.

 

I like neato graphics but pink hair and a gaunt cheekbone that goes underneath my helmet I don't care. I more desire cool gameplay with a rich combat mechanics (Sacred 2 was richer than S1 in mods etc but S1 good too). I like many types of enemies and lands so I don't get bored. Again I like 2 better than 1 as in 1 I got so tired of 'bandit' 'thief' 'marauder' 'orc'. Goblin was cool because the shaman had unique attack but all those other ones were just melee and archer with no differences in game play.

 

Anyways I digress.

 

Since I am not role playing I could care less about character customization.

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tdraven    0
In my opinion character customization is important for role playing games. But lets be honest ARPG is not really a role playing game. But yet people know what it means. I think if they can give a little bit of customization while devoting very few resources then fine with me. But I don't expect them to have the type of customization as bethesda/bioware RPGs.

 

I like neato graphics but pink hair and a gaunt cheekbone that goes underneath my helmet I don't care. I more desire cool gameplay with a rich combat mechanics (Sacred 2 was richer than S1 in mods etc but S1 good too). I like many types of enemies and lands so I don't get bored. Again I like 2 better than 1 as in 1 I got so tired of 'bandit' 'thief' 'marauder' 'orc'. Goblin was cool because the shaman had unique attack but all those other ones were just melee and archer with no differences in game play.

 

Anyways I digress.

 

Since I am not role playing I could care less about character customization.

 

you forgot for RPG the character customization is rather important RPG or hack/slash game and you cannot compare the customization in oblivion because it so complete so wonderful :D but I agree with you when it goes underneath a full helmet it become not so appealing SO the real point is ARMOR ! I think that in sacred 2 armor model are not so great for 4-5 type of armor and that bother me its different type of character different type of armor ;D

I want to have a inquisitor wearing a full armor :D not some ugly dress :D Why they dont do basic set of armor for everyone ARMOR without discrimination ARMOR FOR ALL hahahah ;D

I hope in sacred 3 they wont mess up armor type again COme on Ugly dress that wear Rune to protect the body pfff when I say armor I mean ARMOR :D and why some restriction for the 2 handed weapon for god sake with 250 in strength a dryad should be able to lift a 2 handed sword :D and why the temple Guardian cannot wear a two handed sword Discrimination AGAIN ! and why the TG doesn't wear armor on is left arm just because is arm can transform in different weapon pfff He is the ancestor of the transformers (joking of course) Is arm Should be able to change in hand to wear something :D OR He cAN EQUIP ARMS WEAPON LIKE A DECENT MACHINE BUILD FOR EXTERMINATION AHHAHAHA OR shoot beam from is chest from is battery ;D Or HE CAN Equip special equipement on is back like seraphim like a T-energy turret Or Better 2 T-energy turret ;D

AND the thing that bother me the most is WHY NOT WEARING 2 ENERGY WEAPON !OR BETTER 1 HAND A ENERGY WEAPON AND THE SECOND HAND A MELEE WEAPON ahhhahha ;D

I dont speak about the forging ability who need some real change like Coloring armor with Dye who dont dream to change the color of the set Ilgard's Judgment Come on Red/Green ugly! or better that Forge socket in Item or

OR add some eye candy change like seeing the object in the armor OR seeing a magical aura that show that the armor is enchanted ahhaha ;D in Sacred 2 you see a change when you forge weapon with a wolfteeth etc...

WHY NOT ARMOR :D

But anyway I like the game :D

Edited by tdraven

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wqewqe234    0

Mix and matching armor is enough customization imo the only thing that should be customized is the option to play as a male or female how great would that be to be a male high elf or something.

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