oogliefrank 0 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Title says it all. I'd rather spend my points in things that will increase my combat options/versatility as well as combat power. I unlike so many want the game to be easy. I want to mow stuff down etc... Do I really need to spend 2 of my skills and numerous skill points on these. The only person I know that plays Sacred 2 has said that he regrets having spent points on Enhanced Perception and that he does not notice a difference. Now he is only level 80 something so I don't know if there is a point at which it becomes more important or not. Please advise. Link to comment
dreeft 9 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 They are definitely not required. You can get away without them and still plow through your enemies. Particularly if you use the skill slots to increase your damage/resistances. The main advantage of Bargaining is that it allows you to maintain a fairly consistent level of quality in your gear throughout the game. When you feel like something is lacking, you can throw on a bit of +general/+all skills/+bargaining gear and find yourself something new. Particularly useful if you don't have access to a shopping character. I'm still unsure of the usefulness of EP. It certainly helps, but I am fairly sure that some toons are just luckier than others. I don't usually take it unless I need to or have a few free skill slots. Link to comment
locolagarto 15 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Title says it all. I'd rather spend my points in things that will increase my combat options/versatility as well as combat power. I unlike so many want the game to be easy. I want to mow stuff down etc... Do I really need to spend 2 of my skills and numerous skill points on these. The only person I know that plays Sacred 2 has said that he regrets having spent points on Enhanced Perception and that he does not notice a difference. Now he is only level 80 something so I don't know if there is a point at which it becomes more important or not. Please advise. Welcome to Dark Matters frank! There is certainly a benefit to taking bargaining, but only if you intend on using it to outfit you character with the best gear you can find. there is tons of great gear that drops from Bosses and Champs with out either skill. Having said that, I only build characters with no utility skills. However I already have traders available to me to buy what I need and outfit my "Fun" Characters. So you may be perfectly happy without taking bargaining. IMO fun to play all around characters with utility skills are hard to build. So either make a Util from the start or a "Fun" character and don't try to mix the 2 until you get enough experience with the mechanics of the game to master an All-Around build. My advice is start your first character with the plan of not needing Bargaining. And if you get stuck, or want to be able to update and upgrade you gear by shopping, then start a second character an make it a bargainer. They are definitely not required. You can get away without them and still plow through your enemies. Particularly if you use the skill slots to increase your damage/resistances. The main advantage of Bargaining is that it allows you to maintain a fairly consistent level of quality in your gear throughout the game. When you feel like something is lacking, you can throw on a bit of +general/+all skills/+bargaining gear and find yourself something new. Particularly useful if you don't have access to a shopping character. I'm still unsure of the usefulness of EP. It certainly helps, but I am fairly sure that some toons are just luckier than others. I don't usually take it unless I need to or have a few free skill slots. the one nice advantage to EP is being able to socket EP modified Gems and gear with +experience per kill or + chance to find valuables. These modifiers are scalable with the number of points in the EP skill. so a high level character with high EP can still level effectively with EP. Just my opinion Link to comment
Bariel 0 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 You can very quickly see the difference for yourself that bargaining makes with about 15mins work and give yourself a useful character to keep - start a new high elf char get her to level 2 and pick bargaining as skill (put both pts into it), give her a few bargaining relics with +1 and then visit the shop in sloeford. You'll see a hell of a lot more rare items as opposed to your normal characters. I like to leave that character at level 2 and do nothing but shop items for my new char builds, I have a high level shopper at level 93 that finds good rings I.e. +7-8 all skills (I'm a console player so that doesn't count if you're on ice & blood) and socket into the level 2 gear.... generally I find with those 2 shoppers that gear from level 2 lasts me well into my level 30+ before I'm looking to swap some stuff out for better defence. As for EP -- always seems to help a lot for me, my chars that have it find a lot more set/unique items than chars without Link to comment
AxP 0 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 well there is an alternative to EB, equip a one handed weapon and shield with +% to find valuables and just before a boss is killed (about 5-10% hp, depending on your dmg overall) and then switch to your MF gear (find valuables) and get the killing blow...I have +15% total at level 37 and ive got pretty good gear. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 well there is an alternative to EB, equip a one handed weapon and shield with +% to find valuables and just before a boss is killed (about 5-10% hp, depending on your dmg overall) and then switch to your MF gear (find valuables) and get the killing blow...I have +15% total at level 37 and ive got pretty good gear. Er.. The only problem I see with that tactic - you can't make the boss critter stop wailing on you while you say "Excuse me while I change into my MF gear..." He may be a few hit points away from doom - but I've yet to see one stop fighting until either you or he was quite dead. Also keep in mind that while you're swapping gear, your armor values will go down momentarily - and that could lead to your premature demise... Might as well have that stuff either worn or socketed in your regular battle gear so you don't have to worry about it. Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 In my experience, Bargaining is useful early on, but grows much less useful as you progress into plat' level. EP is probably the more useful of the two. You can get some nice drops from mobs/containers. You will mostly get items drop, that are way better than any item purchaseable from a merchant. But, you don't 'need' either to complete the game. They may just help you along the way. Steve. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Title says it all. I'd rather spend my points in things that will increase my combat options/versatility as well as combat power. I unlike so many want the game to be easy. I want to mow stuff down etc... Do I really need to spend 2 of my skills and numerous skill points on these. The only person I know that plays Sacred 2 has said that he regrets having spent points on Enhanced Perception and that he does not notice a difference. Now he is only level 80 something so I don't know if there is a point at which it becomes more important or not. Please advise. You DO realize that your first paragraph is a study in contradictions... You don't want the game to be easy - yet you want stuff that will make you more powerful so you can "mow stuff down"... You see, having better gear usually means weapons that do MORE damage. More damage per hit usually means it takes fewer hits to "mow" the enemy down - ergo, the game is easier. As far as EP and Bargaining go... No, they're not required skills. However, they CAN make the game a bit easier and cheaper - in so far as finding good gear to use goes. A few months back I did a bit of a test using the Inquisitor. I had him start out with Bargaining as his first skill. I pretty much noticed right from the start that there were MUCH fewer gray items in my pack after a run. More white, blue and yellow items and more unique and set items as well. Note: EP is not even available as a skill for the Inquisitor - so it's safe to say that Bargaining does double duty to a degree. Now you might say that makes the game too easy.. Fine. Keep in mind that White, Blue and Yellow items (as well as the Uniques and Set items) are worth much more than the bottom of the barrel gray junk. Having more money in the bank allows you to spend more on buying and enhancing the stuff you really DO want to have (forging amulets, rings, smith runes, etc...) Link to comment
Knuckles 904 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 umm the way I read it is, he does want the game to be easy (unlike others). Link to comment
lujate 575 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 My main (and first) character is level 131 and has neither EP, nor bargaining, and at one point had over 500 million gold because there is nothing to buy. I have started a second character with both EP and bargaining. That character is now about level 10. I am sold on EP, but bargaining has yet to prove its usefulness. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 My main (and first) character is level 131 and has neither EP, nor bargaining, and at one point had over 500 million gold because there is nothing to buy. I have started a second character with both EP and bargaining. That character is now about level 10. I am sold on EP, but bargaining has yet to prove its usefulness. Well.. WHEN you're flush with the gold, then it probably doesn't matter if you're paying a higher price than you have to for goods. If you've got half a billion Gold, then who cares if you pay 10%, 15% or even 20% markup. Most of the time you won't see those kinds of resources. As a for instance, I've seen items at merchants selling for 42,500 or so Gold without my "bargaining suit" on and when I pop on my bargaining gear (relics, belt and an amulet for a total of +22 Bargaining) the price magically drops to like 35,500 or so. That's like a ~16% drop in the price. And bargaining is FAR from mastery. The deals are supposed to get better once you've mastered the skill. The funny thing is - when I played my last Inquisitor and did keep it close to level and eventually mastered it, the deals at the merchants were pretty good - PLUS the drops got better along the way as well. So it might be better to just take Bargaining and use EP's skill slot for something else. Of course, if you MUST take a different General skill because Bargaining is not a primary skill, then maybe EP might not be so bad. It beats Divine Devotion any day... @ Knuckles DOH! Hate it when I misread a post.. You're right.. He was trying to make it easy.. My bad.. Link to comment
lujate 575 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) It is not a question of price, it is a question of there being anything other than junk for sale. Edited January 5, 2011 by lujate Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It is not a question of price, it is a question of there being anything other than junk for sale. Yah.. Bargaining helps improve the quality of the stuff being offered as well. Fewer gray, more white, blue and yellow items. I've even seen a Unique amulet up for sale - which I bought - NO idea how it got into the inventory as I didn't sell it to the merchant. Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It is not a question of price, it is a question of there being anything other than junk for sale. Yah.. Bargaining helps improve the quality of the stuff being offered as well. Fewer gray, more white, blue and yellow items. I've even seen a Unique amulet up for sale - which I bought - NO idea how it got into the inventory as I didn't sell it to the merchant. A unique for sale. I assume it was a single player game, and without the cm patch ? Very odd ! Even though I have very high Bargaining, I rarely buy anything from merchants now. I get plenty from drops with high EP. My seraphim is in plat, and I took both as an experiment, and have just gone on with the build. I thought it would only be to maybe gold. * shrugs * I'll be interested to see what merchants offer in niob, as I have heard lightsabers appear in inventories at high lvls. I look forward to seeing that, if it's true. Steve. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 A unique for sale. I assume it was a single player game, and without the cm patch ? Very odd ! Even though I have very high Bargaining, I rarely buy anything from merchants now. I get plenty from drops with high EP. My seraphim is in plat, and I took both as an experiment, and have just gone on with the build. I thought it would only be to maybe gold. * shrugs * I'll be interested to see what merchants offer in niob, as I have heard lightsabers appear in inventories at high lvls. I look forward to seeing that, if it's true. Steve. Yeah.. It was the weirdest thing. From what I heard that sort of thing has NOT been seen since the very, very early days of the game. Actually, the game was/is single player, and with the CM Patch. Go figure. And it was in SILVER...! Lightsabers - eh... Apparently the trick is to have Bargaining at very, very high levels - something like 2x your current level and at some point, it becomes pretty close to being impossible to do that. Either that or just install the CM Patch. There are certain quests that drop them as regularly as a Swiss watch. The cave with the Alien in Benny's Corn Circles, for instance drops one when you pull the switch. Not only do you get the demon, but a random lightsaber. There's another quest in Wargfels that drops one. And if you're doing the Epic Office quest, Frank Rentmeister drops a LEGENDARY lightsaber when you're running the quest and go visit him. He's in a difficult enough spot in the southern Nor Plat region - so it's a bit of a schlep but it's still worth the effort... There's a sort of irony behind that one - Frank Rentmeister's web page hosts the bug tracker for the CM Patch guys. Needless to say, I've got maybe a dozen or so of 'em now - all different colors and such - from like level 22 or so to level 84. They're fairly easy to come by with the patch installed. About the ONLY things I look for in Merchant inventories - better relics and jewelry. I find merchants tend to have higher level relics in stock than the ones that drop on the battlefield - especially after I did the Christmas quest and the Northland Island campaign. By the time I get done with that, I'm maybe 10 - 15 levels above the regular mobs so that's to be expected. I also look for + skills/CA rings and amulets, as well as RpH endowed stuff and maybe some damage mitigation gear. Link to comment
essjayehm 58 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 It is not a question of price, it is a question of there being anything other than junk for sale. Lujate, reading your posts re:Barg., I thought you were crazy; but now I see that you just haven't discovered the joy that is seeing a merchant inventory where every single thing is rare (2-stars). In regards to the opening post, my advise for oogliefrank (Hiya, and welcome!) is that Bargaining is without doubt the most powerful skill in the game. OK, I'll add a caveat to that.. it's the best "stand-alone" skill (Focus+Lore for an aspect is King). It alone makes the later levels a lot easier than any one other skill alone. That being said, if you are on-line and can beg, borrow (and steal) good equipment from friends/clanmates etc, then bargaining becomes much less useful, as you can leverage the 1000's of hours of shopping your friends have done and get the best items that way. Link to comment
lujate 575 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) Allow me to elaborate... I am still relatively new to Sacred. My first character is level 131 and has neither EP, nor Bargaining. At one point, she had almost 500 million in gold because the merchants had nothing really worth buying. As for drops, I am still 2 pieces short for the set I want. I have started buying expensive junk to fund my new shopper. My shopper is level 10 or 11. My EP is at 5, and my Bargaining is 1 hard point below my level. I have six +1 relics for both EP & Bargaining that I swap between as needed. So far, the only good item that I purchased was a sword. My other sword and all my armor have been drops. The drops seem really good, but the stuff for sale not so much. I plan on seeing this thru to Niob, but, as of now, I remain unconvinced regarding Bargaining. Edited January 5, 2011 by lujate Link to comment
essjayehm 58 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I plan on seeing this thru to Niob, but, as of now, I remain unconvinced regarding Bargaining. Fair enough. I look forward to your views after using it for a while! I am sure you will see the usefulness of this wonderous skill. Link to comment
AxP 0 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 well there is an alternative to EB, equip a one handed weapon and shield with +% to find valuables and just before a boss is killed (about 5-10% hp, depending on your dmg overall) and then switch to your MF gear (find valuables) and get the killing blow...I have +15% total at level 37 and ive got pretty good gear. Er.. The only problem I see with that tactic - you can't make the boss critter stop wailing on you while you say "Excuse me while I change into my MF gear..." He may be a few hit points away from doom - but I've yet to see one stop fighting until either you or he was quite dead. Also keep in mind that while you're swapping gear, your armor values will go down momentarily - and that could lead to your premature demise... Might as well have that stuff either worn or socketed in your regular battle gear so you don't have to worry about it. u have the F1 F2 F3... slots, and as a HE with IS im just stunning as much as I can so its easier for me than others I guess but just run away for 5 sec so u wont get hit and the problem is solved. so far I havent died due to my switching Link to comment
lujate 575 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 AxP, are you saying you guys can change gear with a hot key? That must be nice. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) u have the F1 F2 F3... slots, and as a HE with IS im just stunning as much as I can so its easier for me than others I guess but just run away for 5 sec so u wont get hit and the problem is solved. so far I havent died due to my switching F1 - F5 changes your weapon. OK. That's cool, but your armor? I dunno bout that. Kinda sucks up a bunch of extra space you could use to grab new stuff. AxP, are you saying you guys can change gear with a hot key? That must be nice. Yep.. To a degree, of course. There are 5 weapons slots and 5 CA spell slots. The F1 - F5 keys change your weapons and the 1 - 5 number keys change your CA. You can't swap out, say an entire set of armor for another one in your stash. You can change your relics also with a hot key as well as activating and deactivating your buffs. Plus there's a key for the map, log book, etc... Not too hard to do when most keyboards these days come with 104 keys.. Edited January 7, 2011 by wolfie2kX Link to comment
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