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Display trouble


Timotheus

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At the moment I have some strange problem during the restart of my PC.

Before, I thought it was the previous card (a HD3650) but I now discovered that it happens with my new HD4670 as well.

 

My situation: I have always liked to change my hardware "because I can", my current PC has seen at least 5-6 graphics cards. The problem only occurs now, since the last two, to my knowledge not on these previous owned cards: 9600GT, 2400PRO, 7300GS, 7900GS, HD3870.

The problem is that a restart of my PC (whether Windows or hardware reset) results in a loss of picture, until I shut down and re-start the PC.

Does anyone have an idea why this is happening?

 

I have no other PC to test the cards in, but the buyer of my old 3650 did not complain of any issues. Since both of these cards seem to be problematic it would be unlikely that this is caused by the video card.

Motherboard is an option, but then I wonder why this is not happening at a cold start, which to me seems to be more intensive.

My power supply cannot be changed unfortunately. Because I need a 8pin CPU connector and the old PC are only 1x 4pin if I'm lucky, and maybe not even have the 24pin for the motherboard connector.

Also, I've tried switching displays with our other pc, but to no avail.

Edited by Timotheus
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Curious Timo... I'm not completely clear though on the catalyst. No pun intended, haha. When you say "whether Windows or hardware reset" are you saying that the catalyst is a system crash/reboot? Can you give a bit more detail on how it's happening? I haven't had my coffee yet. Well... I've only had half of it so far. ^^

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No, no crash involved. Imagine installing an update and Windows tells you to restart.

If I press on restart, the pc goes through the entire process - lacking any output on screen after the shutdown screen however.

No POST or anything afterwards.

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Edit this answer was to the first post, not the second one which was same time with this one :bounce:

 

Our industrial computers behaves similiar, it is caused by the fact that starting up discs and cards takes more Ampere from the power supply than once they are up and running.

 

When turning the power on the bios delays the access to some cards so the power supply doesn't have to bring the starting Ampere for all the cards/discs at once. A soft boot bypasses the bios and all is started at once, may causing problems. A hard boot uses the bios. But this may just for our industrial machines. I never had a smiliar problem with my own computers.

 

Are your new cards taking more Ampere?

Edited by chattius
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Are your new cards taking more Ampere?

 

I've had a HD3870 and 8800GTS g80 on the same PSU, both a lot 'heavier', and never experienced this before.

Edited by Timotheus
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I can't imagine what's going on with your pc Timo but do you have a custom boot menu on your system? Like a multiboot menu or some such? Just occurred to me that in that scenario a problem could arise with a mal-configured boot menu.

 

Oh and considering the multitude of cards you've had in that sys could it be conflicting driver info? Left over bits of Old driver(s) complicating a Program related system restart? Did you give your system a thorough scrub during the last vid card change?

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No multi- or custom boot options, just plain old XP SP3. I've always uninstalled+driver sweeper'd before switching cards, so I don't think that's it either.

Especially since it isn't showing a POST, where no drivers are loaded.

 

I have been able to resolve the problem (for now) by removing the overclock on my processor...

My memory ran underclocked so I reckon that is not the problem.

 

Would it be my PSU?

 

E6420

3GB standard DDR2 memory

Jetway motherboard

HD4670

1 HDD, 1 optical

 

The PSU is a Cooler Master Real Power Plus 460watt.

Edited by Timotheus
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Could be the psu. 460W is on the lower side for high end graphics. Depends upon how much else you have installed: ram, hard drives, etc. -- everything draws power. Also, is it a single rail power system -- I.e. all 460W on the same line, or is it divvied up into multiple rails?

 

I'd suspect that too much peak power is being taken on a warm boot, as Chattius did as well. On a cold boot, the load is probably more balanced, so the peak level is not as high.

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That card isn't connected to the psu though isn't it? IIRC it should get enough power from the pcie lane...so maybe not the psu? Unless it's started to age and isn't as good as it used to be.

Edited by Dragon Brother
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Just for fun have you tried swapping your monitor to the other dvi socket? Could you then reproduce the problem? It's a little thing but heck, why not eh. ^^

 

chattius's point does make a lot of sense though and considering the power you have I'd investigate that route. Any way to get a higher power PSU to test with?

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Not without buying one, the PSU in our family pc can't handle my pc's requirements..

And regarding the DVI socket: could be, but it's odd that the problem is occuring with both cards. Unlikely at best.

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It doesn't sound like enough draw to be a problem unless the psu is going bad. Can you measure the output with a meter, both loaded and unloaded? That may give a clue.

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My 2 cents - just check that your onboard display is disabled in the bios... When I just bought my pc (just before Noah was issued an Ipod) it had no 3D gfx card. When I inserted the card, I would see the Windows start up logo, but as soon as the desktop was supposed to show up, my screen went blank. Disabling the onboard and making my 3D card the primary, solved this issue...

 

Edit: Also, could it be a overheating issue when you overclocked? And when you shut down and restart the pc might just cool down that fraction of a degree that makes all the diffirence?

Edited by Scleameth
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It doesn't sound like enough draw to be a problem unless the psu is going bad. Can you measure the output with a meter, both loaded and unloaded? That may give a clue.

I don't know how :4rofl: please explain :D

 

My 2 cents - just check that your onboard display is disabled in the bios... When I just bought my pc (just before Noah was issued an Ipod) it had no 3D gfx card. When I inserted the card, I would see the Windows start up logo, but as soon as the desktop was supposed to show up, my screen went blank. Disabling the onboard and making my 3D card the primary, solved this issue...

 

Edit: Also, could it be a overheating issue when you overclocked? And when you shut down and restart the pc might just cool down that fraction of a degree that makes all the diffirence?

No onboard chip, so that's not the problem.

And overheating: no, that's not it. CPU idles at around 25-30, load between 40 and 45 I think, and my GFX idles at 40 and loads at 50-60.

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It doesn't sound like enough draw to be a problem unless the psu is going bad. Can you measure the output with a meter, both loaded and unloaded? That may give a clue.

I don't know how :blush: please explain :)

 

My 2 cents - just check that your onboard display is disabled in the bios... When I just bought my pc (just before Noah was issued an Ipod) it had no 3D gfx card. When I inserted the card, I would see the Windows start up logo, but as soon as the desktop was supposed to show up, my screen went blank. Disabling the onboard and making my 3D card the primary, solved this issue...

 

Edit: Also, could it be a overheating issue when you overclocked? And when you shut down and restart the pc might just cool down that fraction of a degree that makes all the diffirence?

No onboard chip, so that's not the problem.

And overheating: no, that's not it. CPU idles at around 25-30, load between 40 and 45 I think, and my GFX idles at 40 and loads at 50-60.

 

Your first post is made on august 3rd,considering your country-temperetures are supposed to be much lower than what we got here,BUT still dust+ temp increasing makes em overheating.

The amount of load is not the only thing affecting it,so check the fans around and touch the card and processor radiator-if u can't keep your hand long-overheating is the trouble.

Loss of picture can be either of overheating or graphic drivers-98% is overheating :)

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It doesn't sound like enough draw to be a problem unless the psu is going bad. Can you measure the output with a meter, both loaded and unloaded? That may give a clue.

I don't know how :blush: please explain :)

 

My 2 cents - just check that your onboard display is disabled in the bios... When I just bought my pc (just before Noah was issued an Ipod) it had no 3D gfx card. When I inserted the card, I would see the Windows start up logo, but as soon as the desktop was supposed to show up, my screen went blank. Disabling the onboard and making my 3D card the primary, solved this issue...

 

Edit: Also, could it be a overheating issue when you overclocked? And when you shut down and restart the pc might just cool down that fraction of a degree that makes all the diffirence?

No onboard chip, so that's not the problem.

And overheating: no, that's not it. CPU idles at around 25-30, load between 40 and 45 I think, and my GFX idles at 40 and loads at 50-60.

 

Your first post is made on august 3rd,considering your country-temperetures are supposed to be much lower than what we got here,BUT still dust+ temp increasing makes em overheating.

The amount of load is not the only thing affecting it,so check the fans around and touch the card and processor radiator-if u can't keep your hand long-overheating is the trouble.

Loss of picture can be either of overheating or graphic drivers-98% is overheating :)

 

I'm sorry, but if my temperatures remain acceptable during a load test with my cpu stressed by dual instances of orthos and my gfx get stressed with furmark, I'm pretty sure it's not an overheating issue. Especially since not even Sacred (which would stress my gear pretty heavily) runs without problems.

 

On your other suggestion: no POST cannot be a driver issue, because drivers are meant for software (the operating system) to recognize your gear and put it to good use.

At best, the lack of image during POST can be caused by a faulty gfx BIOS, but: 1. during normal POST there is an image; 2. the problem occurs with 2 different cards and simple maths makes that highly unlikely.

 

Chattius' suggestion is a lot more likely if what he's saying is true.

 

Anyway, just for the fun of it: I'm gonna put my pc through some dual orthos + furmark at the same time, just for the heck of it.

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Just finished a half an hour load test with 1 instance of Furmark and 2 instances of Orthos, no problems at all.

My CPU temp rose to just shy of 50 degrees C, and my GPU had 1 extremely short peak shot at 74 before the fan speed adjusted, but the normal max was at about 60 degrees.

Edited by Timotheus
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Just reread the main post and realised the problem....

 

Not quite sure but sounds a bit like a RAM either-main or graffic card problem...U know-sick ram makes unexpected system behaviors...

 

If u had the trouble with your previous card than try focusing on the mainboard ram-swapping,replacing,cleaning -stuff like that....if not helping mainboard is a pain to swap for a test....

 

Another suggestion-if u using multiple displays,it may couse loss of picture for several seconds while 1 of them lights up,but suggest u did wait for few minutes wich don't make it count....

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I'll test the ram thing in a bit. Who knows, I do have a new stick since the end of May. But I did a memtest on it, and it was fine before.

Worth a shot though.

 

No more multi-monitor setup. I did have it for two weeks with my new card, but not anymore.

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Won't trust a memtest at all.....failled way too many times....Memtest status-OK,replacing RAM-problem solved.....

 

If u running more than 1 stick remove them 1 by 1 and try to call the event...if not-use the jocker-Call a friend and borrow a stick :blush:

 

Cleaning the contacts might help as well-the fat from the fingers removes the dirt pretty well.

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Well, removing the newest stick did not work.

I'll have a crack at fiddling with it again tonight if I can find the time.

Edited by Timotheus
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I tend to agree that it is probably your PSU. How old is your system? If it is more than 4 yrs old tha PSU may not be able to supply the current demands of todays graphic cards especially dual GPU cards. Even single GPU cards since 2008 draw considerably more power than their predecessors. Even if you don't think it is a heat issue I would definitely suggest a thorough case cleaning, fans, filters, etc. PC Maximum has a good tutorial on that on its website. It may help keep your spikes down below the 74 you saw. AS for the RAM testing, remember that you have to maintain the minimum amount in your system needed by the games and program you are running so the test is accurate. So it will take a bit of time swapping out one stick at a time to check all the RAM slots and sticks. Hope you had no plans for the evening otherwise and good luck.

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