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Thorsfew

Help with decision running 2 or 4 spectors in the Astral Lore Combat Art

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Ok please forgive the poor title, and the following question.

 

Can some kind person please give a definate response on running 2 or 4 spectors in the Astral Lore CA?

 

I appolgise if this is posted elsewhere ( I have looked through many posts and cannot find a comparision of pro's and cons).

Also can an admin please "move" this thread to it's correct area if I have posted it in wrong place?

 

 

Ok from what I understand, I can give my NA buff a choice of swords or +1 NPC spector.

I can then add "shields" or another +1 spector.

Finaly I can improve their regen rate (combat and non combat) or add further armour benifits.

 

Well I looked over at wiki site and found a reference to their base damage and their adjusted dam for adding sharp sword mod.

I believe swords give each spector around 40% to dam?(unconfirmed)

 

Do the swords add 40% to "hit" as well as damage? If yes then this topic needs no further comment.

If no then I am confused.

I can choose to run 4x spector with gold mod "armour"

or run two with 40% dam and 2x "armour" improvements.

 

If spector deals a base dam at my level of 200 HP per hit, then 4x 200= 800 HP dam to 1-4 opponent(s) per hit.

If I have 2 spectors with swords and 2x armour mods, then is this is this correct?....2x 280= 560 HP dam to 1-2 opponent(s) per hit.

 

Given that the spectors "regen" and can not die (just lie there taking aggro) would it not make sense to run 4?

 

 

If the "to hit" is improved with swords ( I presume it is) then I guess the damage dealt differs.

As the 2 spectors hit 40% more than the 4 I surmise the following (please correct me!)

 

example.... base rate to hit given opponent = 50%

4x spector hit half the time 800 becomes 400dam to target(s)

2x spector hit becomes 75% (40% of the base to hit% 50= 25%) the 560 becomes 420dam to target(s)

 

Does this aquate to a 5.0% damage benifit of using two spectors over using four?

 

 

 

So if these guess's at the maths are correct it offers a few "pro's and con's" to the final choice of mods.

 

Running Two spectors-----

Pro's

5% extra damage over using four.

due to silver mod "armour" they take less dam, so therefore last longer to keep hitting opponent(s). (usefull for boss, not so for single small roaming npc's).

 

Con's

Your "damage to enemy suffers greatly when one of them gets "stuck" and refuses to engage. Your damage becomes 210 HP, and the second spector just becomes an agro magnet.

When under mob, less spectors equals less of a "wall" blocking access to you.

 

 

Running Four spectors----

Pro's

more NPC's to engage the enemy(s).

If one gets "stuck" and refuses to attack, you still have 3 doing a total 300HP dam opposed to the two spectors low dam scenior (210HP) if one gets stuck.

When running the RE CA, thats four times reflective (party gold mod on RE) damage over the two times for the " running two spector" choice.

 

Con's

Without the "silver mod armour" these can be reduced to static aggro units while waiting for them to regen, then zero damage. (can recast buff for 4 more though)

Its reported that 4 spectors can "overload" and get in each others way. (I have yet to see this happen (last SW had 4x spector) and they actualy all seemed to engage most of the time while at my side, and even after 2 secsonds after they "teleport" to my current postion. I did experience one getting stuck on occasions, but no where near as much as the SW running the two Spectors).

 

 

I would like some help in this area of 2 or 4?, as I feel way out of depth trying to figure it out.

 

Playing on xbox360 (incase that has any differences to PC version)

My Shadow Warrior this time has gone with "2 is better than 4", but one seems to do nothing about a 1/3rd of the game (especially noticed in the swmap area). Lev 36 SW and Spectors are around lev 41.

I presume player game preference might influence a players choice..(pvp I would presume if Spectors are used then 2 would be better (with 2xarmour) and less prone to Area of Effect, Area of Effect against four "weaker ones". Also maybe "lag" issues if in a party of four players.

I feel I have gone on too much and maybe over the top with info, but incase I haven't, please just ask and I will do my best.

 

Be gentle... I am NEWBeginner to this. 1st game SW Lev36 Light 98%, but terrible build (did not know what I was doing and had chosen "Black smithing", swords and ranged weapons) Relied on heavy penalty 4x spectors on "Bronze" difficulty ( I didn't know I could change to another setting)

2nd character also a SW (now Lev36) Dark 60% complete approx (on silver atm) changing to gold at Lev50. He is a "ranged" fighter with RE and GR buffs, and can equaly swap to a invisable and spectral buff role when I wish.

 

 

Please some one help my ramblings.

Last two nights I refused to sleep, and catching a few hours in the late afternoon before logging back in!

 

Edit1*--- Sorry for poor spelling, will correct later on after I have tried that thing called "sleep"

 

Edit2* --- Spelling corrected for the most part.

 

SW now at Lev41 and doing well. He can grind or drink tea watching the Spectors and SF with the occasional DB every 4secsonds with "Leech life".

Edited by Thorsfew

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I think that the sharp blades bronze mod increases damage. I remember asking this question a while back (though not as thoroughly) and I was told that more skeletons = more damage, unless you take sharp blades and 1 extra skeleton (was told that 4 could get in eachothers' way but 3 did it much less). I think it comes down to personal preference, imo 4 skeletons or 3 skeletons & sharp blades will = more damage, but taking blades or extra skeleton and shield silver mod will mean a lot more survivabilty (which might mean more damage on plat/niob as they can't do damage if they're "dead"). I'm probably going to try 3 spectres and shields mod, as it seems to me that (at least in theory) adding another skeleton = 50% damage increase, and I've been told that with shields and elite armor mods they become "indestructible".

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I think that the sharp blades bronze mod increases damage. I remember asking this question a while back (though not as thoroughly) and I was told that more skeletons = more damage, unless you take sharp blades and 1 extra skeleton (was told that 4 could get in eachothers' way but 3 did it much less). I think it comes down to personal preference, imo 4 skeletons or 3 skeletons & sharp blades will = more damage, but taking blades or extra skeleton and shield silver mod will mean a lot more survivabilty (which might mean more damage on plat/niob as they can't do damage if they're "dead"). I'm probably going to try 3 spectres and shields mod, as it seems to me that (at least in theory) adding another skeleton = 50% damage increase, and I've been told that with shields and elite armor mods they become "indestructible".

 

 

I welcome the input good sir, and wish you luck and fun.

I think your right with the 2 build instead of 4. Like you said I have a feeling its to do with later levels in Plat and Niaob.

I hope to read about your progression and swap ideas on the lessons we learn.

 

From most posts I see SF gets more light than Spectors due to damage vs time.

I like the spectors, cast once and they stay. Thats why I dont use "rally", as I don't want to press the assigned butten every 30 or so seconds. I created them, and they stay and protect until I die.

 

Bronze mod Either Swords or +1 Spector

Silver mod gives Armour or +1 Spector

Gold gives extra regen or Armour bonus.

 

Time will tell I guess. Others will post with their knowledge and put us out of our misery.

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I have been running two SWs with NA modded for sharp blades, shields and elite armor. So far my bodyguards have held their own although I did lose one spec when he got mobbed by 10 on him when my SW was level 35. Just had to recast the buff and he was back again. I picked this config after reading all the threads on it. Four specs definitely got in each others way according to those that tried it. Three occasionally got in each others way but damage done depended on whether you picked sharp blades or third spec in bronze mod first based on consensus.

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but wouldn't 3 (even w/o sharp blades) still do more damage than 2 with sharp blades? I.e. 2 spectres each do 100 damage per hit (for the sake of easy math), sharp blades = 140-145 damage a hit for a total of 280-290 damage, whereas 3 spectres = 300 damage total, so not a lot, but still more, and that's 1 more spectre to reflect damage (please correct me if that's wrong). So I think I'll be running 3 spectres w/ armour silver mod (though I think sharp blades makes their weapons look a lot better).

 

I think that even if 4 specs didn't run into eachother 3 w/ sharp blades would still do more damage (excluding reflected damage and assuming they're all hitting for the same amount at the same time), I.e. each spectre does 100 dmg/hit 3 w/ sharp blades = 140-145 each for 420-435 dmg total, compared to 400 dmg total for 4 spectres (though running without armour silver mod would decrease their survivability substantially).

 

Actually the wiki also recommends taking the armour silver mod lol, so imo it's a choice between style and efficiency, and I think that choosing between these 2 comes down to personal preference (2 spectres w/ better equipment that never [?] run into eachother or 3 spectres that do more damage [maybe] and sometimes run into eachother).

 

p.s. welcome to fdm thorsfew!

Edited by Rndm

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but wouldn't 3 (even w/o sharp blades) still do more damage than 2 with sharp blades? I.e. 2 spectres each do 100 damage per hit (for the sake of easy math), sharp blades = 140-145 damage a hit for a total of 280-290 damage, whereas 3 spectres = 300 damage total, so not a lot, but still more, and that's 1 more spectre to reflect damage (please correct me if that's wrong). So I think I'll be running 3 spectres w/ armour silver mod (though I think sharp blades makes their weapons look a lot better).

 

I think that even if 4 specs didn't run into eachother 3 w/ sharp blades would still do more damage (excluding reflected damage and assuming they're all hitting for the same amount at the same time), I.e. each spectre does 100 dmg/hit 3 w/ sharp blades = 140-145 each for 420-435 dmg total, compared to 400 dmg total for 4 spectres (though running without armour silver mod would decrease their survivability substantially).

 

Actually the wiki also recommends taking the armour silver mod lol, so imo it's a choice between style and efficiency, and I think that choosing between these 2 comes down to personal preference (2 spectres w/ better equipment that never [?] run into eachother or 3 spectres that do more damage [maybe] and sometimes run into eachother).

 

p.s. welcome to fdm thorsfew!

 

The small additional damage done to me is not worth having three specs. Even with two I sometimes have to hit/cast through them in tight quarters or in the middle of large mobs. But then this game allows for a lot of variation in personal play style and no answer is right for everybody. Experimenting is part of the fun.

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I prefer the four with the armor bonus. Given my current build with high defensive stats/skills, I don't mind the 4 knuckleheads bouncing into each other. If one goes down, I just respawn the buff and get them back. My char can hold his own until the respawn is finished. If it's a nasty fight, I cast the Guidon/skel fortress/rousing command combo to protect while the skellies are reborn.

 

The loss in dam with 4 skellies seems to be made up in more attacks and the increased meat shield is nice. Also, I cast the other spell for raising the dead to add more to the meat train.

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I run 2 warriors with: sharpened blades, tower shields and improved armour. They never die or get in the way and kill bosses faster than my shadow warrior. They have become more powerful then my shadow warrior and I'm playing on Niob with a level 199 character. The game lags and locks up less with just the two warriors also. The only draw-back is sometimes the second one gets lazy if the enemy isn't likely to threaten your character and just stands there.

 

I'll never do four warriors after seeing the hassles some people get into.

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I run 2 warriors with: sharpened blades, tower shields and improved armour. They never die or get in the way and kill bosses faster than my shadow warrior. They have become more powerful then my shadow warrior and I'm playing on Niob with a level 199 character. The game lags and locks up less with just the two warriors also. The only draw-back is sometimes the second one gets lazy if the enemy isn't likely to threaten your character and just stands there.

 

I'll never do four warriors after seeing the hassles some people get into.

 

 

Thankyou for all your comments/ input.

It's refreshing to see so many views.

(Hi gasbomb)!

 

 

I found running my 1st SW with NA on "bronze" at lev35 had issues. His CA regen with NA x 4 spectors was horrible. I had level 56 spectors!, but I didn't understand the game a couple of weeks ago.

Now I run 2x spectors with a Lev50 SW (just entered gold and WOW! the game plays soooo different, and better IMO)

 

Things I noticed.

 

4x spectors with fast regen at "bronze" vs the "spinning" boss in the Jungle island (north of jungle island area) could not beat down the boss (he would regen as quick as damage taken). The boss regened too fast. The spectors remained on full life, and all four engaged the enemy boss and its minions.

 

2x spectors with swords and 2x armour at "silver" vs said boss seemed to deal more damage vs the boss regen. One would at times stand around as if "lost".

 

Now these results are far from perfect. After all "bronze and silver" settings. Different SW builds and regen times. Also use of "buffs" and refelct damage.

 

I think what I am saying is I gree with the above post(s).

Every one to their own personnal choice.

After all it's what makes the game fun for you, and not always "what's best result"

 

My next build will focus on yet another SW, when the time comes for me to send the presnet one to the grave for a much needed "rest".

I will either go back to 4x spector, or ry the 3x spector.

I would like to build my "new" SW along the exact lines of this current one ( I like him), but see how 4 vs boss works.

 

Maybe I should try all 3 options vs one boss and record the results. (dam vs time) vs time taken to kill boss.

 

I was thinking of invisible SW and no buffs.

 

I read elsewhere in this fine forum the actual "game listings" for the Spectors and their swords armour. I did notice that one set of armour appears to be "useless". Maybe I misread it, or need it explaining.

 

 

For the most part the biggest issue of Spectors seems to be players experiences of either "lag" or the spectors seemingkly to bump into each other.

I need to look into this more for myself. I was lucky with 4, but seem half the time to be "bugged" with a duff spector while running two.

 

At gold level and above I need to know without guessing "how" my spectors will perform. Not damage otr surviability, but the probibility of them being aggresive or just acting as statues. Here say seems to lean towards interferance with four.

 

 

Again thank you for your comments, please keep them coming, and feel free to link any other posts I may have missed reading.

I personnaly find the spectors more fasinating to use than the SF. The game offers so many different "builds" and plays that it will keep me active for many a day to come.

 

Nice to be here, and hopefully I WILL shorten my posts!

 

Edit1-- "spinning boss area.

Edited by Thorsfew

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