Bargaining Mastery quest rewards

[Dobster 39]

"Bargaining Mastery grants better quest rewards"

 

I've never read anything about this before and was wondering if anybody knows what it actually does? I'm trying to make a toon just to do all the quests in gold difficulty and was wondering if it's worth taking bargaining just for better quest rewards.

 

Does it increase rewards chance by a percentage after the mastery or is it only worth taking the skill to 75 and no more?

 

The tooltip doesn't mention this bonus after mastery. It only lists the chances for better items from traders.

Edited October 24, 2010 by Dobster

[locolagarto 15]

Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is an unfinished mastery bonus. it was intended but never implemented? seems like Llama told me that:)

[Dobster 39]

Hhhhmmm, when discussing the idea with Lllama he said that the toon would need bargaining mastery for the quest reward bonus

 

Maybe looking into the code of the game(which I have no idea how to do) would be the only way to know for certain.

[locolagarto 15]

Somebody will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is an unfinished mastery bonus. it was intended but never implemented? seems like Llama told me that:)

 

Perhaps I have a different mastery bonus in mind.

[Ryanrocker 200]

Perhaps I have a different mastery bonus in mind.

 

Maybe Divine Devotion? I believe he was talking about that awhile back...

[wolfie2kX 528]

"Bargaining Mastery grants better quest rewards"

 

I've never read anything about this before and was wondering if anybody knows what it actually does? I'm trying to make a toon just to do all the quests in gold difficulty and was wondering if it's worth taking bargaining just for better quest rewards.

 

Does it increase rewards chance by a percentage after the mastery or is it only worth taking the skill to 75 and no more?

 

The tooltip doesn't mention this bonus after mastery. It only lists the chances for better items from traders.

 

Seems to me there was a rather long thread a while back involving bargaining and lightsabers a while back. According to what was discussed if I recall correctly, you needed to have bargaining kept very high if you ever hoped to score a lightsaber - which, at the time was not available any other way. It was supposed to be something like 2x your level in order for the merchants to even think about having them. Of course, now the CM-Patch comes along and makes Lightsabers a regularly droppable goodie.

 

Either way - that does seem to cover the better items from traders bit. I would assume then that if you want the high quality stuff to keep popping up at your friendly neighborhood merchant, you'll need to likely keep pumping points into the skill. Of course, there probably come a point where you probably won't be able to keep on pumping points into the skill.

 

Tell you what.. I've got an idea on how to test this out. Someone brought up a utility that has some pre-loaded characters - complete with full sets of set items so you can start your run with a full set of whatever armor you like. The characters are all level 15, with a completely blank slate. Nothing but the starter goodies and a pack full of set items and an array of skill points and attribute points you can configure any way you like. So.. What I can do (since I've already got the utilty installed) is grab one of the characters, drop in bargaining as the first skill and run up the points to level 75. Then I'll go run through a few dozen quests in the Sloeford area as well as the surrounding area and see just what drops. After that, I can try the same sort of run but pump like 100 points into Bargaining and see what drops.

 

I'll get back to you later today on what all I find. Honestly kinda expect a boatload of uniques and maybe even a few legendaries. Eh.. We'll see. If the level 100 bargaining results in better drops overall, then it's likely a good thing to pop more points into it.

[locolagarto 15]

"Bargaining Mastery grants better quest rewards"

 

I've never read anything about this before and was wondering if anybody knows what it actually does? I'm trying to make a toon just to do all the quests in gold difficulty and was wondering if it's worth taking bargaining just for better quest rewards.

 

Does it increase rewards chance by a percentage after the mastery or is it only worth taking the skill to 75 and no more?

 

The tooltip doesn't mention this bonus after mastery. It only lists the chances for better items from traders.

 

Seems to me there was a rather long thread a while back involving bargaining and lightsabers a while back. According to what was discussed if I recall correctly, you needed to have bargaining kept very high if you ever hoped to score a lightsaber - which, at the time was not available any other way. It was supposed to be something like 2x your level in order for the merchants to even think about having them. Of course, now the CM-Patch comes along and makes Lightsabers a regularly droppable goodie.

 

Either way - that does seem to cover the better items from traders bit. I would assume then that if you want the high quality stuff to keep popping up at your friendly neighborhood merchant, you'll need to likely keep pumping points into the skill. Of course, there probably come a point where you probably won't be able to keep on pumping points into the skill.

 

Tell you what.. I've got an idea on how to test this out. Someone brought up a utility that has some pre-loaded characters - complete with full sets of set items so you can start your run with a full set of whatever armor you like. The characters are all level 15, with a completely blank slate. Nothing but the starter goodies and a pack full of set items and an array of skill points and attribute points you can configure any way you like. So.. What I can do (since I've already got the utilty installed) is grab one of the characters, drop in bargaining as the first skill and run up the points to level 75. Then I'll go run through a few dozen quests in the Sloeford area as well as the surrounding area and see just what drops. After that, I can try the same sort of run but pump like 100 points into Bargaining and see what drops.

 

I'll get back to you later today on what all I find. Honestly kinda expect a boatload of uniques and maybe even a few legendaries. Eh.. We'll see. If the level 100 bargaining results in better drops overall, then it's likely a good thing to pop more points into it.

 

He is not asking about quality of items in shops. That discussion has been very well documented.

 

He is asking what the skill mastery bonus is? And what it does.

[wolfie2kX 528]

@ Loco

 

I realize that. The point of what I was suggesting is to see if there's anything to getting better drops for completing quests beyond level 75...

 

Update time: I checked one of my imported characters - only has 29 points skill points and 207 attribute points for starters. This may take a bit longer than I expected.

[Dragon Brother 619]

From some of the discussions I think that the mastery gives a chance to get quest rewards from a higher tier or two...not a large chance, but a chance nonetheless.

 

Edit: Here, from Anti's awesome bargaining/mf/ep thread:

 

Bargaining Mastery should push the minimum/maximum allowed quality of a quest reward higher (most likely by 1-2 tiers, though it might depend on the skill level).

 

Thread here.

Edited October 25, 2010 by Dragon Brother

[wolfie2kX 528]

Update:

 

Ok.. Got this puppy going. There's been a change in plans as far as how this is going to be done. I was going to go with the high elf, but since the games supplied by the MegaDev folks for the High Elf were stuck at level 1 and the games supplied for the Inquisitor were starting off at level 15 (no idea why, just is), I am doing him instead. The reason I'm limiting this to those two characters - Bargaining is a primary general skill. If I had Ice and Blood, I could have gone Dragon Mage as well, but... I don't.

 

Anyhow... Here's the game plan. I'm using the Deylen's Power set. I'm adding points to Bargaining as much as possible and avoiding other skills that could complement it - such as Enhanced Perception. I'm also avoiding any items modded with Chance for Finding Valuables %...

 

For this game, I'm also cheating just a tad. I found a few mods to Balance.txt that allow me to get more experience per kill regardless of what I've got in rings and amulets. I also have damage done by enemies via physical or spells down to 0. Ok.. So it's not much of a challenge. It's not about that. Right now, it's about the bargaining skill and does dumping points into it post-mastery make any sort of sense.

 

After about 8 hours of play time, I've got the following:

 

Inquisitor Level 36

Bargaining - with enhancments: level 50 - without: 36

I am unable exceed the level strictly with points. I've got an All Skills +3 talisman and +3 Bargaining relics socketed.

 

Other skills:

Gruesome Inquisition Focus

Astute Supremacy Focus

Nefarious Netherworld Focus

Dual Wield

Concentration

Astute Supremacy Lore

Ranged Weapons

 

So what's the early verdict? The quest completion drops DO seem to already be improving somewhat. No Legendaries or Uniques as yet - but I do have 3 pieces of Ilgard's set - all within the first few levels of play.

 

Here's the gameplan as it sits now:

 

I'm playing this on multiplayer and starting off on Silver. Decided I'm going to stick wiith Silver if for no other reason than to maintain some semblance of consistency. My opponents currently are mostly ringed in red - meaning they're still at or above my level. As it sits, I'm getting like 3K+ per Kobold in the west end of the elf region. Not hurting for experience points as yet. The only white ringed opponents in the last few hours were the bandits that were holding the men prisoner north of Sloeford. Kinda disappointing, but oh well. Plenty of red ringers (and points) to go around.

 

Once I hit mastery, I'll see what sort of drops I get - and then I'll keep pumping it up to level 100 and see what sort of drops I get.

 

Seem reasonable?

[locolagarto 15]

That seems like a lot of work Pete,

 

I can use the Character editor to create a blank level 75 HE. I will invest 74 points to Bargaining and run the Blood forest quest keeping track of the drops. Then add 1 point to Bargaining and run it again. if there is any obvious difference in the drops is should be evident.

 

Or run the 2 "dock" quests in Thylisium and check the difference in drops with and without mastery. it mayl take several runs with either way to see a difference

[wolfie2kX 528]

That seems like a lot of work Pete,

 

I can use the Character editor to create a blank level 75 HE. I will invest 74 points to Bargaining and run the Blood forest quest keeping track of the drops. Then add 1 point to Bargaining and run it again. if there is any obvious difference in the drops is should be evident.

 

Or run the 2 "dock" quests in Thylisium and check the difference in drops with and without mastery. it mayl take several runs with either way to see a difference

 

Well.. I suppose that could work as well. I am, however experimenting with some stuff as well. Different combos, different stuff from what I have been doing. Quite honestly - I don't mind much. Might take a bit longer, but what the heck, I'm having fun.. And that's kinda the point. No?

 

Oh.. FWIW, I did find one unique level item in the stuff after I wrote that. Turned up in a weapon slot. It was an Officer's Saber, level 35, nice piece of kit.

 

As far as that character editor goes... Not entirely sure how to make that quite work. You're supposed to decode the file first, then run it in the editor - but I haven't seen any changes to the savegame file - the one that gets loaded in the game - after you've mucked about with it.

 

Oh.. and the quest behind all this apparent madness - it's to see if putting points into Bargaining beyond level 75 is worth the effort. Is there any bonus beyond getting better drops.

[locolagarto 15]

Well.. I suppose that could work as well. I am, however experimenting with some stuff as well. Different combos, different stuff from what I have been doing. Quite honestly - I don't mind much. Might take a bit longer, but what the heck, I'm having fun.. And that's kinda the point. No?

 

Oh.. FWIW, I did find one unique level item in the stuff after I wrote that. Turned up in a weapon slot. It was an Officer's Saber, level 35, nice piece of kit.

 

As far as that character editor goes... Not entirely sure how to make that quite work. You're supposed to decode the file first, then run it in the editor - but I haven't seen any changes to the savegame file - the one that gets loaded in the game - after you've mucked about with it.

 

The savegame editor is actually very simple to use and is an awesome tool for test just like this one.

 

 

Oh.. and the quest behind all this apparent madness - it's to see if putting points into Bargaining beyond level 75 is worth the effort. Is there any bonus beyond getting better drops.

 

 

For my own curiosity, I would like to know if the tooltip Bargaining Mastery bonus actually does anything at all. If it does work, I can't imagine any difference between hard points past 75 versus soft points. Hardpoints past 75 has never seemed more or less usefull than +all skills from gear as far as I can tell.

 

 

And yes it is all about having fun!

[locolagarto 15]

Double post here but I was able to test and got some results

 

First, I created a level 75 test char. zero magic find/zero survival bonus.

 

I put 74 points in to Bargaining and ran the Good Address quest 5 times

 

I got a 1 blue item each time

 

Then, I added 1 point to bargaining(for skill mastery) and ran the same quest 5 more times

 

On the first run I got 2 sets and 1 Blue, then 1 blues each on the next 4 runs

 

 

Next, I maxed out bargaining to 215 and ran the quest 5 more times

 

Again I had 1 run with 2 sets and a blue, and then 4 runs with 1 blue each. this time the sets came on the 3rd run

 

So the numbers guys will say that I need to do about 1000 more runs for any useful results. but it seems that bargaining mastery improved only a chance of improving the drop bucket. and Exceeding mastery didn't really change the results.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Update time...

 

I've made it to level 51 - almost at 52. I've arrived in Thylysium and have over 80 quests done.

 

I've been playing with combos found in this post I've found the combo he listed with Clustering Maelstrom and Levin Array to be quite amusing - line 'em up and the Levin Array is like shooting fish in a barrel. The exploding corpse thing - Eh.. Not always quite as useful as you might think.

 

Got Combat Discipline for the 9th skill to give me the triple combo thing. Putting most of my points into Bargaining, the three focus skills and Concentration to keep the regen times in check. I'm finding dual wield a bit of a waste. It really bites big wind when you're trying to hack and slash some thug and he gets scared, wets his pants and runs away so you gotta then go chasing after him. Better to just shoot the bugger from a distance and put him down like the mad dog he is.

 

Onto the goodies!

 

Thus far the set drops do seem to be more frequent. In the span of a few hours, I've gotten no less than 5 set pieces - a Saraki's helm, 2 Saraki's chest armors and a Saraki's belt. In addition, I've also gotten a set item I've never seen before - the chest plate from Dreadbringers and another Deylen's belt.

 

Speaking of Deylen's Power.. Finding there's a rather massive nerf (25%) on movement starting with the level 60 set. Avoiding that, for now, like the plague. I'd like to get done with this exercise before I grow a ZZ Top style beard.

 

Bargaining is at level 51 (hard) with +4 bargaining relics installed all the way around. Currently Bargaining is sitting around level 68 with a few all skills +x trinkets and weapons. Sadly, no lightsabers nor special offers from the merchants. Ah well. But I have found one sword with All Skills +7 which I snapped up - even tho it was rather expensive at about 350K Gold. Eh. It's worth it. The tough part - remembering to make it the current weapon before I visit a merchant. Currently using a nice little throwing star that has some nice mods.

 

Thus far, no futher unique or even legendary items have thus far dropped my way. I am seeing a LOT fewer gray items. I'm finding more white, blue and yellow goodies being dropped.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Update time...

 

I've made it to level 51 - almost at 52. I've arrived in Thylysium and have over 80 quests done.

 

I've been playing with combos found in this post I've found the combo he listed with Clustering Maelstrom and Levin Array to be quite amusing - line 'em up and the Levin Array is like shooting fish in a barrel. The exploding corpse thing - Eh.. Not always quite as useful as you might think.

 

Got Combat Discipline for the 9th skill to give me the triple combo thing. Putting most of my points into Bargaining, the three focus skills and Concentration to keep the regen times in check. I'm finding dual wield a bit of a waste. It really bites big wind when you're trying to hack and slash some thug and he gets scared, wets his pants and runs away so you gotta then go chasing after him. Better to just shoot the bugger from a distance and put him down like the mad dog he is.

 

Onto the goodies!

 

Thus far the set drops do seem to be more frequent. In the span of a few hours, I've gotten no less than 5 set pieces - a Saraki's helm, 2 Saraki's chest armors and a Saraki's belt. In addition, I've also gotten a set item I've never seen before - the chest plate from Dreadbringers and another Deylen's belt.

 

Speaking of Deylen's Power.. Finding there's a rather massive nerf (25%) on movement starting with the level 60 set. Avoiding that, for now, like the plague. I'd like to get done with this exercise before I grow a ZZ Top style beard.

 

Bargaining is at level 51 (hard) with +4 bargaining relics installed all the way around. Currently Bargaining is sitting around level 68 with a few all skills +x trinkets and weapons. Sadly, no lightsabers nor special offers from the merchants. Ah well. But I have found one sword with All Skills +7 which I snapped up - even tho it was rather expensive at about 350K Gold. Eh. It's worth it. The tough part - remembering to make it the current weapon before I visit a merchant. Currently using a nice little throwing star that has some nice mods.

 

Thus far, no futher unique or even legendary items have thus far dropped my way. I am seeing a LOT fewer gray items. I'm finding more white, blue and yellow goodies being dropped.

Im not so sure how much you are going to prove doing what you are. You are comparing 80 different quests with varying levels of bargaining...possibly all differnt difficulties and thus drop chances, each quest may have different drop chances that we dont know about...I think you have too many variables involved to see anything other than noise from random luck of sets dropping. I think loco's idea is probably the most direct to getting a definitive answer. Get a toon to level 74, 74 bargaining. And just run the same quest as many times as possible...you would need at least a couple of 100 runs for enough data, probably 1000s. And then do the same for 75/bargaining mastery.

 

Try sticking raving thrust into you CM+LA combo now you have room for a 3rd ca...the three of them kick butt together. Im completely with you on the corpse thing...if all corpses exploded...hehehe, but they dont, so...useless.

[locolagarto 15]

Im not so sure how much you are going to prove doing what you are. You are comparing 80 different quests with varying levels of bargaining...possibly all differnt difficulties and thus drop chances, each quest may have different drop chances that we dont know about...I think you have too many variables involved to see anything other than noise from random luck of sets dropping. I think loco's idea is probably the most direct to getting a definitive answer. Get a toon to level 74, 74 bargaining. And just run the same quest as many times as possible...you would need at least a couple of 100 runs for enough data, probably 1000s. And then do the same for 75/bargaining mastery.

 

Try sticking raving thrust into you CM+LA combo now you have room for a 3rd ca...the three of them kick butt together. Im completely with you on the corpse thing...if all corpses exploded...hehehe, but they dont, so...useless.

 

not to mention map revealed and survival bonus mucking up the chance to find valuables

[Dragon Brother 619]

Im not so sure how much you are going to prove doing what you are. You are comparing 80 different quests with varying levels of bargaining...possibly all differnt difficulties and thus drop chances, each quest may have different drop chances that we dont know about...I think you have too many variables involved to see anything other than noise from random luck of sets dropping. I think loco's idea is probably the most direct to getting a definitive answer. Get a toon to level 74, 74 bargaining. And just run the same quest as many times as possible...you would need at least a couple of 100 runs for enough data, probably 1000s. And then do the same for 75/bargaining mastery.

 

Try sticking raving thrust into you CM+LA combo now you have room for a 3rd ca...the three of them kick butt together. Im completely with you on the corpse thing...if all corpses exploded...hehehe, but they dont, so...useless.

 

not to mention map revealed and survival bonus mucking up the chance to find valuables

And that too, along with any mf on gear changing over time too.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Im not so sure how much you are going to prove doing what you are. You are comparing 80 different quests with varying levels of bargaining...possibly all differnt difficulties and thus drop chances, each quest may have different drop chances that we dont know about...I think you have too many variables involved to see anything other than noise from random luck of sets dropping. I think loco's idea is probably the most direct to getting a definitive answer. Get a toon to level 74, 74 bargaining. And just run the same quest as many times as possible...you would need at least a couple of 100 runs for enough data, probably 1000s. And then do the same for 75/bargaining mastery.

 

Try sticking raving thrust into you CM+LA combo now you have room for a 3rd ca...the three of them kick butt together. Im completely with you on the corpse thing...if all corpses exploded...hehehe, but they dont, so...useless.

 

not to mention map revealed and survival bonus mucking up the chance to find valuables

And that too, along with any mf on gear changing over time too.

 

And that's where I've actually got a bit of control over the whole thing - I'm using a fixed set - Deylen's Power. I'm also going out of my way NOT to include any Chance to find Valuables modded weapons, rings or amulet. The Sigma says my "chance to find valuables" is like 1.9% - and it's in white - at the very bottom of the list. Doubting it's got that much of an effect on how things are going.

 

The only changes that will happen are if I happen across any jewelry that has Bargaining +x on it or weapons that bear maybe some life leech or All Skills +x or something else that's useful.

 

Edit: Raving Thrust = very good call - especially useful if a mob didn't quite get wiped out by the Levin Array.. Gives you a bit of breathing room, if nothing else. Thanx!

Edited October 28, 2010 by wolfie2kX

[Dragon Brother 619]

Im not so sure how much you are going to prove doing what you are. You are comparing 80 different quests with varying levels of bargaining...possibly all differnt difficulties and thus drop chances, each quest may have different drop chances that we dont know about...I think you have too many variables involved to see anything other than noise from random luck of sets dropping. I think loco's idea is probably the most direct to getting a definitive answer. Get a toon to level 74, 74 bargaining. And just run the same quest as many times as possible...you would need at least a couple of 100 runs for enough data, probably 1000s. And then do the same for 75/bargaining mastery.

 

Try sticking raving thrust into you CM+LA combo now you have room for a 3rd ca...the three of them kick butt together. Im completely with you on the corpse thing...if all corpses exploded...hehehe, but they dont, so...useless.

 

not to mention map revealed and survival bonus mucking up the chance to find valuables

And that too, along with any mf on gear changing over time too.

 

And that's where I've actually got a bit of control over the whole thing - I'm using a fixed set - Deylen's Power. I'm also going out of my way NOT to include any Chance to find Valuables modded weapons, rings or amulet. The Sigma says my "chance to find valuables" is like 1.9% - and it's in white - at the very bottom of the list. Doubting it's got that much of an effect on how things are going.

 

The only changes that will happen are if I happen across any jewelry that has Bargaining +x on it or weapons that bear maybe some life leech or All Skills +x or something else that's useful.

 

Edit: Raving Thrust = very good call - especially useful if a mob didn't quite get wiped out by the Levin Array.. Gives you a bit of breathing room, if nothing else. Thanx!

Ok, your MF you can control, thats true, and your map revealed may not have too much effect, but over a large range of levels SB will def have an effect...and with all the other stuff I mentioned...Im not sure that you will be able to prove anything, let alone notice a trend.

 

Hehe...yeah, im running a caster inquis at the moment...those 3 Combat Arts are great together

[Antitrust 32]

If I wanted to test this, I'd run the Kobold Chieftain quest about 500 times for each bargaining setting to see if there's a noticeable difference*. Where each setting involves a level 75 character in Gold with hard 74 skill points, hard 75, soft 150 and hard 150

 

If I had found a noticeable difference*, I would try to find out how that works and if it's worth the skill points.

 

It shouldn't be too time-consuming... I could theoretically kill the chieftain and save to Sloeford monolith without completing the quest (assuming the bargaining bonus is triggered when you complete the quest). Then just reload the game to complete the quest a bunch o' times.

 

Then it's just a question of how long it takes the comp to load the character every time

 

 

*to determine a difference, I'd use the same methodology I used in the shop testing

[Dobster 39]

Thanks Anti, I might give this a go and see what happens

[cider_steve 26]

Nice one. Look forward to seeing the results.

[Dobster 39]

I just killed the chieftain and had it all set up but the game saved the quest completed when I exited.

 

On reloading it was completed. It's been ages since I played SP, do I need to alt-F4 the game so it doesn't save? If so then this is going to take a very long time.

[Spunky 16]

Write protecting the save files might do the trick if you want to make sure the quest doesn't get completed...