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Sacred 2 Balance.txt


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Well, those are a lot of different values indeed! I assume those values only work in SP and that each value corresponds to a different difficulty level?!

By the way Flix, do you have any notes on the proportion at which those values could/should be changed? Or is it trial and error?

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On 10/2/2018 at 0:08 AM, Flix said:

Wha?  Try these lines:

  DefenseFactorDiff = {650,1000,1500,2500,4500},

  NPC_speedfac_any = {1000,1150,1200,1275,1350},
  AttackFactorDiff = {800,1000,1750,2750,4500},
  DamageFactorDiff = {1000,1050,1200,1350,1500},
  LifeFactorDiff = {1000,1400,2000,3000,4000},

  NPC_attrWdam_fact = {1000,1100,1250,1500,2000},

  AllEnemy_lvl = {1,10,20,200,250},
  Enemy_armor = {900,1000,5000,7200,10000},
  Enemy_weapondamage = {650,850,1000,3300,3630},
  Enemy_spelldamage = {750,950,2000,3800,5450},
  SpellAttackFactorMT = {1000,1330,2000,2000},
  SpellDefenseFactorMT = {1000,1750,2500,2500},
  HitFactorMT = {1000,1500,2000,2000},
  DamageFactorMT = {1000,1200,1400,1400},
  LifeQuotientMT = {2500,800,125,125},

 

Some of those might also affect the player, but the ones with "NPC" and "Enemy" are a safe bet.  I don't know what the "MT" lines do.

I've tried changing the following:

DefenseFactorDiff
AttackFactorDiff
LifeFactorDiff
DamageFactorDiff
Enemy_armor
Enemy_weapondamage
Enemy_spelldamage

I also changed values on these:

MP_damage
MP_combatvalue
MP_lifeHP
MP_EShieldHP
MP_armor


The only ones that had an effect on the "last opponent" window were DefenseFactorDiff, AttackFactorDiff and LifeFactorDiff, where the HP of the last enemy doubled and the values for "opponent-chance to hit; player-chance to hit" were accordingly different. All other entries had no practical result in the stats displayed. I put double the original on the value correspondent to Niob on the first group (rightmost one) and doubled the amount of the first (leftmost) value on the second group, tested it with a level 200 BFG seraphim from the unskilled chars on the download section.

Weird... Shouldn't I be seeing different results? (Yes, I had some spare time today, hurray!)

 

PS: Fun fact as to what ZRareExpectation is concerned. I changed everything from tier 11 to 15 to 1000 and everything from tier 00 to 10 to 1, did a Guardian run in Niob with the seraphim and got three legendaries. ;) Alas, they do drop!

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, so a few corrections here as last night results' were bugging me. So I changed these values from 1000 to 1 and then to 10000:

MP_damage
MP_combatvalue
MP_lifeHP
MP_EShieldHP
MP_armor

Yeah, they work as expected and related. With 1 it was one shot one kill, with 10000 I could barely kill anything with so much HP that any mob had at level 200. The important thing to note is that none of these values change the stats on the "last opponent" window! So yes they do work, it's just that these changes aren't displayed anywhere. Whereas changing DefenseFactorDiff, AttackFactorDiff and LifeFactorDiff will update the stats on the "last opponent window" these MP lines won't do it. So that's clarified. Is changing both necessary? I don't know, as I have no idea if one overrides the other (MP_lifeHP and LifeFactorDiff for example) or if they work together and multiply themselves one by the other, which would be hard to control and could get out of hand very easily.

Then I thought that maybe I screwed up in testing Enemy_armor, Enemy_weapondamage and Enemy_spelldamage as well. So first I changed the fifth value to 1 and afterwards to 10000. Results were, well, few to none?! Then I switched all five values in those three parameters to 1, then to 10000 then to 100000. In all instances I couldn't really notice a difference in terms of damage inflicted to and by mobs. I have no idea why but I've changed these values in several different ways and nothing seemed to change.

As for DamageFactorDiff, I still have no idea what it does... The MT and NPC values I didn't touch, nor did I mess with AllEnemy_lvl. And that's it. If someone cares to present some aid or clarification by all means, do so. ;)

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Q: If I change "DropMaxRandomRare" to 15 can I have a chance to a drop from any of the 15 tiers on each and every kill I make?

A: Answered my own question, put the ZRareExpectation15 to 1000 and everything else to 1 (and eventually to 0 to be 100% sure), and I filled my inventory three times with everything being gold or green but no orange to be seen. Which begs me to do another question, why can't we force legendaries to drop? Is it the same scenario where we can't force a merchant to sell the upper tiers past yellow items?

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4 hours ago, Androdion said:

Q: If I change "DropMaxRandomRare" to 15 can I have a chance to a drop from any of the 15 tiers on each and every kill I make?

A: Answered my own question, put the ZRareExpectation15 to 1000 and everything else to 1 (and eventually to 0 to be 100% sure), and I filled my inventory three times with everything being gold or green but no orange to be seen. Which begs me to do another question, why can't we force legendaries to drop? Is it the same scenario where we can't force a merchant to sell the upper tiers past yellow items?

There's another factor at play: the droplists in drop.txt.  Droplists are assigned to enemies somewhere in the code based on enemy rank and dangerclass defined in creatures.txt IIRC.  Rats aren't gonna drop Legendaries.  Do some boss runs.  Also keep in mind many Legendaries have high level requirements or even difficulty requirements before they will even drop. 

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1 minute ago, Flix said:

There's another factor at play: the droplists in drop.txt.  Droplists are assigned to enemies somewhere in the code based on enemy rank and dangerclass defined in creatures.txt IIRC.  Rats aren't gonna drop Legendaries.  Do some boss runs.  Also keep in mind many Legendaries have high level requirements or even difficulty requirements before they will even drop. 

Gotcha. There's more to it than "just" balance.txt it seems. I've went a bit through the file in these past few days and came up with a few tweaks of my own, got to test if they all act the way I want them to.

By the way, and I think it isn't mentioned in this topic, but these lines are supposed to control the minimum and maximum levels at which enemies spawn per difficulty level on the first area. I have no idea if changing those values will indeed have an effect but their names and numbers seem intuitive enough.

Spawn_OffsetLow = {0,0,40,70,110},
Spawn_OffsetHigh = {0,35,80,120,175},

These values +1 and probably with SB accounted for as well. ;)

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5 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Gotcha. There's more to it than "just" balance.txt it seems. I've went a bit through the file in these past few days and came up with a few tweaks of my own, got to test if they all act the way I want them to.

By the way, and I think it isn't mentioned in this topic, but these lines are supposed to control the minimum and maximum levels at which enemies spawn per difficulty level on the first area. I have no idea if changing those values will indeed have an effect but their names and numbers seem intuitive enough.

Spawn_OffsetLow = {0,0,40,70,110},
Spawn_OffsetHigh = {0,35,80,120,175},

These values +1 and probably with SB accounted for as well. ;)

Let me know the results.  I've played with them and saw enemy level changes but I couldn't quite see the pattern.

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  • 8 months later...
  • 3 months later...
On 4/4/2011 at 10:34 AM, Dragon Brother said:

These lines effect the minimum and maximum speed possible in the game. Anything over 1500 doesn't appear to have an effect on the player.

Either that sentence is wrong, or misleading. The correct thing to say would be "Anything over SpeedMax doesn't appear to have an effect on a unit." It would be better to rephrase the whole sentence though.

SpeedMax affects EVERYTHING in the game. From animation speed, over run speed to attack speed.

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1 hour ago, Charon117 said:

Either that sentence is wrong, or misleading. The correct thing to say would be "Anything over SpeedMax doesn't appear to have an effect on a unit." It would be better to rephrase the whole sentence though.

SpeedMax affects EVERYTHING in the game. From animation speed, over run speed to attack speed.

Partly true, but it doesn't, in and of itself, make anything or anyone faster, only increases the cap.  The player or NPC's would still have to have to build up sufficient sources of speed bonuses to see the difference.

In the case of my mods, the playable characters and mounts have significantly increased walk and run speed assigned in creatureinfo.txt.  Enemies in turn gain increased speed per difficulty level, control by the line "NPC_speedfac_any" in balance.txt, which I have also boosted in my mods.  Without these two sources of speed boosts, it's unlikely anyone would ever notice any effect by increasing "SpeedMax" alone.

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@Flix

My point is that sentence doesnt make sense and is plain wrong, even if you have the affection of a grandmother for her nephew. If we are talking about coding and you are saying Code=X doesnt have an affect above value X than that means even if I increase the value beyond X there will never be any effect in the game. Which is wrong.
Ofcourse the coding means that the cap of the Speed is raised, but thats self evident. And also wrong, in some cases. As far as I know there is Attack Speed, and than there is animation speed. They are not the same thing, but they are connected. So you can have an AS for 140% and the animation would maybe get a speed of 155% but since you are capped at 150% you wouldnt get teh faster animation, and thuse wouldnt benefit from lower regen times. Once you increase the cap to 400% you can see that some things simply run faster, even with AS and MS being below 150%.

I think its important to stress that SpeedMax affects EVERYTHING, in the game. It is a pretty powerful modifier. Too powerful in my oppinion. I would have prefered to split it up into different code like SpeedASMax, SpeedMSMax, SpeedAniMax and so on. Than again I would have also prefered a more stable game ;). Im grateful for what Sacred 2 gives.

Edit: The Right To Edit !

2 hours ago, Flix said:

it's unlikely anyone would ever notice any effect by increasing "SpeedMax" alone.

I have to completely disagree with you there. SpeedMax=1500 is such a powerful modifier that once I found out about it I thought about disregarding any weapon Speed mods because the cap is reached so fast with weapon lore + general good gear. Again, my example is the 2.43 seraphim which I found later out had 264% AS when I removed the cap. VERY easily reachable. SpeedMax=1500 basically removes Dashing alacricity from your skill pool once you reach higher levels, since your AS and MS cant get increased anymore anyway.

Edited by Charon117
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15 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

My point is that sentence doesnt make sense and is plain wrong, even if you have the affection of a grandmother for her nephew.

Oh the sentence was patently wrong, I'm not defending that.

Aside from that, I probably underestimated how quickly people reach the speed caps.  If you say you very easily broke all the old speed caps I believe you. I was just correcting what seemed to be your statement that increasing "SpeedMax" would inherently and instantly make anything and everything faster, when in fact the character or NPC would have to have already exceeded the old cap to see any difference. 

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43 minutes ago, Flix said:

If you say you very easily broke all the old speed caps I believe you.

Dont believe me. Do the math.

A naked, unskilled seraphim with Dashing Alacrity and Bloodlust level 50 has 15 + 10 + 15 = +40% AS. And a level 50 Dashing Alacrity is NOT high. According to this

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/16221-how-many-runes-can-I-use/

The CA level can reach 200 ( no matter how you do it ). The theoretical math gives us 15 + 10 + 60 = +85% AS. So an unskilled ( except for the level lore )m naked seraphim breaks the AS cap with 35% AS unaccounted for.

And we are not even yet taking weapon lores and and weapon mods into account, let alone set boni, rings, talisman or sockets.

 

Ok, I will cut you some slack now ;).

Edited by Charon117
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On 10/4/2019 at 11:55 PM, Charon117 said:

Either that sentence is wrong, or misleading. The correct thing to say would be "Anything over SpeedMax doesn't appear to have an effect on a unit." It would be better to rephrase the whole sentence though.

SpeedMax affects EVERYTHING in the game. From animation speed, over run speed to attack speed.

Hi Charon, thanks for pointing out the mistake. I won't pretend to remember how I came to the conclusion I did (first post was 8 years ago, yikes!) so cannot defend the error. I've been pretty happy leaving most of the discussion throughout this thread as is and not updating the initial post, but given this is plain old wrong I will update my original statement and just state the speedmax affects everything as you say.

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3 minutes ago, Dragon Brother said:

Hi Charon, thanks for pointing out the mistake. I won't pretend to remember how I came to the conclusion I did (first post was 8 years ago, yikes!) so cannot defend the error. I've been pretty happy leaving most of the discussion throughout this thread as is and not updating the initial post, but given this is plain old wrong I will update my original statement and just state the speedmax affects everything as you say.

>< Just dont say it literally affects everything.

"SpeedMax raises the speed % cap of things executed in Sacred 2, including Movement, Attack and Animation Speed, but can affect speed execution beyond that ( we dont know those things beyond). It doesnt inherently raise speed in itself, it just removes the cap until the specified value."

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3 hours ago, Charon117 said:

>< Just dont say it literally affects everything.

"SpeedMax raises the speed % cap of things executed in Sacred 2, including Movement, Attack and Animation Speed, but can affect speed execution beyond that ( we dont know those things beyond). It doesnt inherently raise speed in itself, it just removes the cap until the specified value."

Done :)

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  • 4 years later...

Hey all. I'm new.

I just spent the last hour slowly reading the whole topic and changing stuff. I've already done some changes with the balance.txt because I found a helpful page or two on gamefaqs but REALLY needed THIS topic so thanks for everyone's input!

Does anyone know anything about upping the number of skill modification points? As I understand it from the wiki, every so many skillpoints you put into Lore skills and Tactics lore gives you a skill modification point, however in-game there's a tooltip that says my next skill modification point is available only at certain levels so I'm a little confused - Is it by points invested into lore skills or is it by level?

 In any case, I'd like more skill modification points, partly because I like to cheat with the character editor and give myself all six skill modifications instead of just three ... so I need lots and lots of points.

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On 10/2/2018 at 12:13 AM, Androdion said:

I'm quite horrible at math, but even going by the formula on the Wiki page step by step with the potencies and just by inverting the values from negative to positive (ExpLS100 = 0985 to 1015, etc.) I'm getting a bonus at level 199 of... +1866%?! So even if an enemy just gave 100k worth of XP that would mean it'd turn into almost 2 million worth of XP! And even if my math is a bit off, I mean damn... That's probably why idbeholdME was telling me not to turn it into a boni!

@idbeholdME - If you're reading this mate, you were right. It gets out of hand very easily!

IMPORTANT NOTE FOLKS: DO NOT PUT THE RED VALUES OVER 1000 AT THE RISK OF BREAKING YOUR XP PROGRESSION!

ExpLS100 = 985,
ExpLS125 =
980,
ExpLS150 =
975,
ExpLS175 =
970,

Sorry for being so dramatic folks, but I believe this is an important note for newcomers. If I almost screwed it up then it's perfectly easy to do so. :blush:

 

Yeah, but wouldn't that require editing every single creature entry? Making every creature type more hardened via balance.txt seems like a cleaner way to do it. It's just that between a Kobold and a Nameless Guardian +10% can be very little or too much, so I'd like to get some insight on the scale for changing those values. ;)

Sorry for double post, but just randomly noticed this several years later as I was making a reply to the latest thread bump :D

I think there might actually be an overflow problem if you put in values above 1000, the game's internal math probably internally breaks in some way. Not really a good idea to put an X+Y value into a parameter where the game expect X-Y :P

Same thing happens if you put a value in QuestExplow that is higher than the one in QuestExpmax. If you put QuestExplow for Silver at 5000 and QuestExpmax at 4500, completing any quest will instantly give you around 2 Billion XP and max out your level.

 

The safest way to increase XP gain if you want would probably be adding this token to one of the buffs you are using in spells.txt:

entry6 = {"et_exp_rel", 100, X, 0, 41 },

This would give you a 10% XP bonus initially and you can change the X value into whatever you want. So if you wanted the bonus XP to go up 1% every CA level, you'd put 10 in there.

 

Another, much more time consuming alternative would be to add extra XP to the monsters, but you'd have to do that for every single one of them manually.

Edited by idbeholdME
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14 hours ago, idbeholdME said:

All the "aspects" (the three groups of Combat Arts each character has) have 2 related skills that count towards giving you modification points for Combat Arts within those groups.

If you take Malevolent Champion from Shadow Warrior for example, the 2 linked skills are Tactics Lore and Malevolent Champion Focus. The hard points you've invested into those 2 skills (so bonuses from gear don't count) get added together. You get a modification point when that combined value reaches these breakpoints - 3, 5, 9, 14, 22, 31, 42, 55, 70, 87, 106, 126, 149, 173, 199. Every aspect can only ever receive 15 modification points total. As the max value of a skill is equal to your current character level, you will only be able to get the final 15th modification point once your character is level 100 at the soonest (by having both skills linked to the aspect at 100 hard points invested). After that, no more mod points can be earned, because by default, you can only pick 3 modifications for any Combat Art and as there are 5 of them, any further points could not be spent anyway.

If your goal is to be able to pick all the 6 modifications for a single Combat Art, that is not possible under vanilla conditions as the choices are mutually exclusive and you stop getting mod points after the total value of linked skills reaches 199. I'm not sure how hard this would be to mod, someone like @Flix might know. But it is not something you can do through balance.txt.

You could do it through spells.txt, by having the effects of both modifications at Bronze, Silver and Gold tiers applied at once, no matter which one you pick. That is pretty easy to do. If you are interested in that, I can show you an example of how to do it.

 Ok thanks, I understand the points system now you explain it.

 Yes it's not possible in-game to choose all six - I use the character editor to do that but points are still required.

Sorry I quouted your whole comment ... your last paragraph about an example. Yes sure why not, I'd love to see how that is done if it's easy enough. I've already tinkered with spells.txt just adding extra abilitys to a few base spells (just a hack job really - I'm just guessing but nothing bad has happened) and I've been reading the thread about spells.txt a bit, so yes please it would be good to know how how to do that. The first spell I'd be modifying would be shadow warrior buffs so perhaops choose one of those as an example? Grim determination perhaps?

Thankyou idbeholdME!

 

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17 hours ago, idbeholdME said:

Alright. This is Grim Resilience in spells.txt:

  Hide contents

mgr.defineSpell( "sk_hc_willensstaerke", {
    eiStateName = "cSpellCast",
    fxTypeCast = "FX_SK_WILLENSSTAERKE_C",
    fxTypeSpell = "FX_SK_WILLENSSTAERKE",
    fxTypeCastSpecial = "FX_SK_CAST_L",
    duration = 10.000000,
    animType = "ANIM_TYPE_SM06",
    animTypeApproach = "ANIM_TYPE_INVALID",
    animTypeRide = "ANIM_TYPE_INVALID",
    animTypeSpecial = "ANIM_TYPE_RIDESM06-SPECIAL",
    causesSpellDamage = 1,
    tokens = {
        entry0 = {"et_life_buff", 250, 250, 0, 9 },
        entry1 = {"et_addattr_willpower", 300, 150, 0, 41 },
        entry2 = {"et_life_buff", 125, 125, 1, 9 },
        entry3 = {"et_life_regen", 20, 20, 2, 41 },
        entry4 = {"et_baseVW", 100, 50, 3, 5 },
        entry5 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 4, 8 },
        entry6 = {"et_chance_evade", 200, 2, 5, 41 },
        entry7 = {"et_damping_phy", 50, 3, 6, 41 },
    },
    fightDistance = 0.000000,
    aspect = "EA_SK_HARDCOMBAT",
    cooldown = 0.000000,
    soundProfile = 0,
    cost_level = 250,
    cost_base = 250,
    focus_skill_name = "skill_SK_heavy_combat_focus",
    lore_skill_name = "skill_tactics_lore",
    spellClass = "cSpellSkWillensstaerke",
    spellcontroltype = "eCAtype_t_buff",
    sorting_rank = 5,
})

Sounds like you already know the basics, let's just get straight to it. The defined token entries have 4 numbers. The first one is base value, second one is increase per CA Level. The third number denotes which mod node the bonus is tied to and this is what interests you. The 4th number is irrelevant for now (although very important if you want to look into further CA modding).

If the third number is 0, that means that token is active on the CA baseline, without any mods. Numbers 1-6 represent mods. 1 is the first Bronze mod, 2 is the 2nd Bronze mod, 3 is the first Silver mod, 4 is the second Silver mod, 5 is the first Gold mod and 6 is the second Gold mod.

All you need to do is simply duplicate the mod tokens and assign them the same number as the other mod in the pair. So for example:

        entry0 = {"et_life_buff", 250, 250, 0, 9 },
        entry1 = {"et_addattr_willpower", 300, 150, 0, 41 },
        entry2 = {"et_life_buff", 125, 125, 1, 9 },
        entry3 = {"et_life_regen", 20, 20, 2, 41 },
        entry4 = {"et_baseVW", 100, 50, 3, 5 },
        entry5 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 4, 8 },
        entry6 = {"et_chance_evade", 200, 2, 5, 41 },
        entry7 = {"et_damping_phy", 50, 3, 6, 41 }, 
        entry8 = {"et_life_buff", 125, 125, 2, 9 },
        entry9 = {"et_life_regen", 20, 20, 1, 41 },
        entry10 = {"et_baseVW", 100, 50, 4, 5 },
        entry11 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 3, 8 },
        entry12 = {"et_chance_evade", 200, 2, 6, 41 },
        entry12 = {"et_damping_phy", 50, 3, 5, 41 },
 

That will make it so the bonuses of both tokens get applied, no matter which one you pick in game. There will be still only one active visually, but you'll get the benefit of both. Make sure you only have one of the mods picked at each tier if you do this (if you used the character editor) or you will get both bonuses twice. You can add however many tokens you want to a particular mod this way (as long as they are compatible with the spell class).

Oh wow, yes, that is rather simple isn't it!

It's interesting because I'd already kind of figured when adding abilitys as a base ability rather than an upgrade, that I needed a 0 as a third number because that seemed to be what all the other spells were doing.

It'll be really great to now get double trouble out of upgrade points and have them go further.

Awesome, thankyou idbeholdME!

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All you need to do is simply duplicate the mod tokens and assign them the same number as the other mod in the pair. So for example:

        entry0 = {"et_life_buff", 250, 250, 0, 9 },
        entry1 = {"et_addattr_willpower", 300, 150, 0, 41 },
        entry2 = {"et_life_buff", 125, 125, 1, 9 },
        entry3 = {"et_life_regen", 20, 20, 2, 41 },
        entry4 = {"et_baseVW", 100, 50, 3, 5 },
        entry5 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 4, 8 },
        entry6 = {"et_chance_evade", 200, 2, 5, 41 },
        entry7 = {"et_damping_phy", 50, 3, 6, 41 }, 
        entry8 = {"et_life_buff", 125, 125, 2, 9 },
        entry9 = {"et_life_regen", 20, 20, 1, 41 },
        entry10 = {"et_baseVW", 100, 50, 4, 5 },
        entry11 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 3, 8 },
        entry12 = {"et_chance_evade", 200, 2, 6, 41 },
        entry12 = {"et_damping_phy", 50, 3, 5, 41 }, 

That will make it so the bonuses of both tokens get applied, no matter which one you pick in game. There will be still only one active visually, but you'll get the benefit of both. Make sure you only have one of the mods picked at each tier if you do this (if you used the character editor) or you will get both bonuses twice. You can add however many tokens you want to a particular mod this way (as long as they are compatible with the spell class).

 Ok I've modified some spells and I think I should point out one important consideration, and that is that with a spell that can be converted to a buff, like 'Shivering Miasma' from the Enhanced Edition Alternate Spells add-on which is this:

        entry0 = {"et_duration_sec", 4500, 10, 0, 8 },
        entry1 = {"et_slow_enemy_any", 200, 5, 0, 42 },
        entry2 = {"et_range_near", 990, 10, 0, 4 },
        entry3 = {"et_spelldamage_ice", 140, 70, 0, 133 },
        entry4 = {"et_provo_target", 150, 10, 1, 42 },
        entry5 = {"et_spelldamage_ice", 70, 35, 2, 133 },
        entry6 = {"et_chance_reflect_root", 495, 5, 3, 41 },
        entry7 = {"et_debuff_EAW", 500, 11, 4, 42 },
        entry8 = {"et_boost_to_buff", 1, 0, 5, 8 },
        entry9 = {"et_damping_fir", 500, 4, 6, 41 },

- Entry8 : boost_to_buff would be what changes it from a spell into the permanent Buff 'Deathchill Aura', (which is a separate spell) so if anyone is going to alter a spell such as this in this way they need to consider if they want to convert it to a buff or keep it as a spell beforehand, and if they want to keep it as a spell then not to duplicate, in this instance, entrys 8 and 9 it seems.

Addendum: I've edited all my shadow warrior spells and combat abilitys and tested most of them - yeah it all works like a charm.

Edited by HardyWatkins
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