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Question regarding Life Leeched !


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Yeah, % LL is pretty overpowered, almost brokenly so. Anything that makes the final bosses that easy to kill is owerpowered IMO.

 

Though it is useful for hunting for items for bosses.

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Yeah, % LL is pretty overpowered, almost brokenly so. Anything that makes the final bosses that easy to kill is owerpowered IMO.

 

Though it is useful for hunting for items for bosses.

 

You got that right bro. Bosses are to be feared, not looked forward to ;)

Now if the LL% was halved (or even quartered) in percentage globally, wouldn't be so overpowered. Or if it was applied after resistance or something.

 

Or if it was based mostly on survival bonus or something similar, where it would only be calculated in a hyberbolic progression (ie LL% = square root of (base value plus survival bonus augmentation squared) then it would be more of an earned value than a 'find it in a shop or the ground and you're set' value.

 

That is my unofficial recommendation for Sacred 3

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My main "issue" with it (from a balance point of view) is that it adds damage equal to the life you leech. If it didn't add damage then it wouldn't make bosses so easy to kill, though even if it just gave you the life, it would make bosses safer to kill. % LL based on monster HP is going to be overpowered for bosses, since they have so much HP, but absolute LL doesn't leech much (as a % of player HP) late game, so it's not particularly useful.

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From a balance point of view, it'd probably be better to just ditch the LL% based on monster and base it on character HP instead. Like up to one percent of character HP (or less) for example.

 

Then, IMNSHO, it'd be better to set up a health regen that's armor based for points, and have a global skill augmentation for it.

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In other games, the hp regen is based on the weapon's damage, not on either the character or monster hp.

As it was in S1, though there it was easy to get large amounts of % leech (runes gave 3%).

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Yeah, and I kinda member the 108 percent LL in S1 too.

To keep things like LL limited, you hafta put forth some kinda limiting factor based on something that holds it in check. Something in the game world that basically keeps the yin/yang in check. Thinking about it, armor could be exploited as well.

 

The best mathmatical limiter is an equation with an asymptotic line, wherein you can reach toward a certain value, yet never reach it (till you reach infinity of course).

Lemme think about this'n a lil bit.

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Not a bad idea jk...perhaps a %leech that worked like S1 with a values that falls off dramatically very quickly could work well...

They did something similar with MF in S1/Underworld. In S1 MF was a % & it added linearly (I think), in Underworld ti was changed to an absolute number which was then converted to a % via am equation.

 

You could do something with LL, but you'd probably have to drop absolute LL otherwise it'd get very confusing. Or have multiple sources of % LL add together with diminishing returns (like many of the more powerful mods in Sacred 2).

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Still thinking about the formula.

I used to be an advanced math major, but that was many many years ago.

 

Life Leech truly is powerful and quickly imbalance any game, and gets to the point it is a necessary to 'play above your level'.

Include a mitigation from the game world for choosing to do so.

 

Some rough ideas include these:

 


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  • Make it kinda like a vampiric disease. Chain quest to get the 'curse' would be necessary.
    HP 'bleed' gets larger the more LL that is equipped; ie make it necessary to leech to live, kinda like a vampire.
    Bleed = (3 x LL hard points)/sec
  • Subtract vitality and willpower for each LL percent equipped
    For instance each point of LL% added, subtract vitality and willpower (LL% plus (LL%)2) percent
  • Impose counterbalance of 'weakness'
    Each percent of LL%, percent chance to be stunned increases, ie stun chance = (LL% + (2 x LL%))

 

That'd put some balance into gameplay, huh?

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I'd probably restrict it to % leech, since absolute leech is difficult to get in large quantities (comparable to % leech when fighting bosses). I like the idea of it making you fragile somehow, but the problem is balance, you shouldn't, say, loose more life (via a DoT) than you gain from leech, as that makes it counterproductive & a waste of a mod.

 

Edit: And if the DoT stacks, then you could get into a situation where you need to keep hitting the boss to keep from dieing & that builds up a massive DoT which you can't hope to keep ahead of (kinda like a ponzi/pyramid scheme).

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I'd probably restrict it to % leech, since absolute leech is difficult to get in large quantities (comparable to % leech when fighting bosses). I like the idea of it making you fragile somehow, but the problem is balance, you shouldn't, say, loose more life (via a DoT) than you gain from leech, as that makes it

counterproductive & a waste of a mod.

It depends.

If it is set up to have a positive at first, small loss of hp's or vitality at first vs higher benefit from leech, it'd be good.

For instance, if I choose SW skill of regen per sec, then when I get to 75 maxing con for in combat regen as well, let's say I have 365 regen per sec.

I set up LL% at say 1.5 percent through items or mod.

 

With the balance end I could have a negative of percent of my own hp's or vitality, so I would lose say 250 hp's per sec. Still at a positive.

If I pumped it to say 2.0, I'd get the benefit of whacking bosses pretty good, yet my regen loss would rise to 400 loss per sec.

So I'd either need to pump my regen through con or up my regen per sec to compensate.

If I went to say 2.5, then it'd rise to 650 per sec, so I'd need to 'balance' the rest of my skills to compensate. If not, it'd actually be a bad idea to pump it.

 

If I went to 4.0 per sec, then the bleed could be 1000 per sec. I'd obliterate bosses (assuming my attack or hit speed was max or close to such), but if I got hit w a critical (assuming the vitality weakness), I could be in danger of losing my survival bonus. So I'd hafta figure whether I'd wanna go w the negative or stay with what I already have at 2.5.

 

I know that it at present may seem complicated, but isn't necessarily.

 

Absolute leech could also be a absolute number, ie 20 absolute leech value equals minus 40 vitality, for instance.

 

Edit: And if the DoT stacks, then you could get into a situation where you need to keep hitting the boss to keep from dieing & that builds up a massive DoT which you can't hope to keep ahead of (kinda like a ponzi/pyramid scheme).

I don't think it should stack. It wouldn't be fair to either the monster or player; both need a fair advantage to win.

Although I don't care about the computer generated monster's feelings, the opponent must be fairly represented, IMHO

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It sounds a little to complex I think. A simple solution in this case would be the best solution. Something like what I suggested earlier, only leech a percentage of the damage you do (like in S1) and have strongly diminishing returns on the mod. That way its balanced in that to get greater than some low percentage (perhaps 20%, who knows) would require massive investment in sockets. And if you couldnt spawn it on a socketable item then even more difficult to collect it.

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It sounds a little to complex I think. A simple solution in this case would be the best solution. Something like what I suggested earlier, only leech a percentage of the damage you do (like in S1) and have strongly diminishing returns on the mod. That way its balanced in that to get greater than some low percentage (perhaps 20%, who knows) would require massive investment in sockets. And if you couldnt spawn it on a socketable item then even more difficult to collect it.

Perhaps you are right

Making it too complicated is a failure to understand the problem.

The problem is the game allowing it to be (as Llama8 said) powerful to the point of almost being broken.

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