Triple Aspect Dragon Mages

[belgarathmth 21]

Hello, I've been playing two of my Dragon Mages this week, and I have a few thoughts I want to share.

 

First of all, I am seeing a dearth of builds, discussion and other kinds of posts for this character class as opposed to other character classes. Why is that, exactly?

 

And now:

 

I made another thread below outlining my lightsaber Dragon Mage. I love lightsabers, and I thought it would be a good "Magic Knight". (see tvtropes.org- I've gotten hooked on it!)

 

After having defeated the Nameless Guardians on Silver (only by kiting like crazy, spamming Destroyers, and leading the middle two Guardians out into the corridor so I could separate them), and playing for a while in Gold, I find that lightsabers in the hands of this character just plain don't do enough damage. Once you take into account that use of lightsabers takes an extra skill slot (you have to put 5 points into Tactics Lore to open Sword Weapons), it just doesn't pass muster against the caster Dragon Mage, and here's why:

 

I have a triple-aspect caster at almost the same level. He got his last aspect, Mentalism Lore, at 35 instead of 50. He got Ancient Magic at 50, which my lightsaber fighter did not have before facing the Guardians. He will take Combat Discipline at 65, which the lightsaber fighter will never get (if he chooses Ancient Magic for the last skill.)

 

Meanwhile, the caster has pumped up spell levels, which don't bother him a bit because he has Regeneration per Hit up to +2.1 seconds. For some reason, his staff hits more often and strikes much faster than the lightsaber at Staff Weapons=40, where the lightsaber skill was even higher. The staff does a bit less damage than the lightsaber, but who cares, when the spells do "Oh, Crap" damage for the caster and "Meh" damage for the lightsaber fighter.

 

So I am leaning toward the triple-aspect Dragon Mage as the way to go for us caster types, over the "Magic Knight" Dragon Mage.

 

My triple-aspect caster still hasn't done the Guardians yet (I'll be doing them tomorrow), so I'll let you know how that goes compared to the "Jedi" Dragon Mage.

 

Please share your thoughts (and/or warnings)!

[Dragon Brother 619]

Well, if you install the cm patch this changes lightsabers to be based off willpower. Then, level up the familiar buff which raises willpower and this will add to your damage fairly well.

[belgarathmth 21]

Well, if you install the cm patch this changes lightsabers to be based off willpower. Then, level up the familiar buff which raises willpower and this will add to your damage fairly well.

 

Already done before I posted. The Caster still outdoes the Magic Knight.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Well, I guess the DM is designed to be a caster, buffs, Combat Arts pretty much all tend towards greater effectiveness at spells. You wouldnt; expect a melee DM to be as effective as a caster. It's about picking one and focusing on it as best you can I guess.

 

Triple aspect DM sounds the most fun to me, gives you complete freedom to pop off whatever CA as the situation requires or you feel like

[belgarathmth 21]

@Dragon Brother, you're right, the class was designed as a pure caster, unlike the other casters who have at least one melee aspect, so trying to make a melee-caster hybrid out of him goes against type and doesn't work as well.

 

My melee build can survive, but it takes him a lot longer to kill stuff, which gets tedious when the pure caster build can take out everything in sight with one gesture.

 

How about the question of why there isn't more written about this class - is it purely because it was added later than the others and most players had already moved on? Or was it because they already had a lot of time invested in their favorites and didn't want to spend much time fiddling with a new class? Or do people actually not like the class for some reason?

[Stormwing 40]

How about the question of why there isn't more written about this class - is it purely because it was added later than the others and most players had already moved on? Or was it because they already had a lot of time invested in their favorites and didn't want to spend much time fiddling with a new class? Or do people actually not like the class for some reason?

 

One of my reasons not to fiddle with him much is simply that he feels a bit unifinished, as others have stated before. Truth to be told, I haven't spend a lot time with TG either. Not until essjayehm's BiBo() concept.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Why are there so few builds...? Well, perhaps partly that people were less interested in playing one, also, of the builds posted, chattius' guides seem to pretty much cover any bases, without going into too much detail, perhaps thats prevented people from adding anything else?

[Furian67 14]

Sorry I have been such a slacker of late, haven't even played the last three weeks.

 

Anyway I do have a level 142/143 Dual Aspect Dragon Mage in HC Closed net. I have been meaning to do a write-up on him but recently have started to change my life around instead of playing Sacred 24/7 After playing a good 5-6 triple aspect builds and not feeling comfortable to push on to niob I tryed just a dual aspect build. and that was the perfect ticket.

 

I've been working 6-7 days a week since October except for 3 week off for surgery, I have this entire weekend off so I might be able to get started on a write-up for him.

[locolagarto 15]

Sorry I have been such a slacker of late, haven't even played the last three weeks.

 

Anyway I do have a level 142/143 Dual Aspect Dragon Mage in HC Closed net. I have been meaning to do a write-up on him but recently have started to change my life around instead of playing Sacred 24/7 After playing a good 5-6 triple aspect builds and not feeling comfortable to push on to niob I tryed just a dual aspect build. and that was the perfect ticket.

 

I've been working 6-7 days a week since October except for 3 week off for surgery, I have this entire weekend off so I might be able to get started on a write-up for him.

 

Cheers bro! hope all is going well.

[belgarathmth 21]

Best wishes to you, Furian. Write only if it would be fun and interesting for you - you should feel no obligation. This is just a hobby, after all. If it's not fun, don't do it.

[DaveO 88]

I've looked over the Dragon Mage, and I have to agree that triple aspect seems to be a bit of a stretch since I personally prefer to have Bargaining in order to use shopping if I want to. Once you figure that you're taking Tactics Lore, Armor Lore, X Focus 1, Concentration, X Focus 2, Bargaining, Enhanced Perception, two handed weapon, Spell Resistance, and Constitution. That leaves nothing left for additional skills unless you have a trading network already established. You might be able to get by without Bargaining or Enhanced Perception.

[Dragon Brother 619]

I've looked over the Dragon Mage, and I have to agree that triple aspect seems to be a bit of a stretch since I personally prefer to have Bargaining in order to use shopping if I want to. Once you figure that you're taking Tactics Lore, Armor Lore, X Focus 1, Concentration, X Focus 2, Bargaining, Enhanced Perception, two handed weapon, Spell Resistance, and Constitution. That leaves nothing left for additional skills unless you have a trading network already established. You might be able to get by without Bargaining or Enhanced Perception.

 

Well, if you have the network then drop bargaining/EP, tactics and the weapon lore (caster means no point to tactics and weapon lore) that gives room for both extra aspect foci and lore. And if you really need bargaining then drop one of the lores if you only need high level Combat Arts from that aspect.

[belgarathmth 21]

@DaveO and Dragon Brother:

 

I assume you guys are talking post level 75, and/or hardcore?

 

I have a triple aspect DM up to level 62 in Gold level and he's still owning. I know that things can take a sudden turn for the worse starting with the swamp spiders and moving into the desert and jungle areas.

 

My build, which I guess you are going to tell me will not work well at higher levels, is:

 

Concentration

Dragon Magic Lore

Magic Staffs

Enhanced Perception

Armor Lore

Toughness

Elemental Magic Lore

Mentalism Lore

Ancient Magic

Combat Discipline (at 65)

 

Up to this point, the spells do so much damage that I don't have to worry about anything.

 

Hit points, damage (intelligence), and spell resistance (willpower) are coming from maxed-out Familiar;

 

Maxed out Runes of Protection have my armor through the roof, plus 20% stunning and 40% combat art blocking.

 

It will be interesting to see exactly where and at what level this stops working.

 

I'm on single player softcore, so I don't care if there are a certain number of deaths along the way; if the number of deaths exceeds 1 or 2 on Gold, and 4 or 5 on Platinum or higher, then I would define the build as "not working".

 

No dying yet, though. SB is near 80%

[Furian67 14]

I think your build should work out just fine, get the armor lore and toughness to mastery as soon as ya can. Both for the protection and the regen times on spells, since you didn't take any aspect focus. Also the staff lore is not a bad idea. Since it will shoot ranged just add a bit of regen per hit and that will cycle you spells faster.

[belgarathmth 21]

I think your build should work out just fine, get the armor lore and toughness to mastery as soon as ya can. Both for the protection and the regen times on spells, since you didn't take any aspect focus. Also the staff lore is not a bad idea. Since it will shoot ranged just add a bit of regen per hit and that will cycle you spells faster.

 

That's exactly my strategy, Furian. My socketing strategy has been +x regen per hit and experience bonuses, plus some blacksmith arts to keep my attack and defense high. I'm also splitting attributes between strength (for attack) and dexterity (for defense and attack).

 

My experience so far has been that high regen per hit (1.5 to 2 seconds) together with good attack speed and attack bonus makes recharge times almost irrelevant - two or three hits recharges almost any combo, even with very high spell levels.

 

I learned how good recharge per hit can be for a caster from a guide - I think it was your guide, in fact, so thanks for the great tip.

 

One mistake I may have made is that I have built Elemental Magic Lore, Dragon Magic Lore, Ancient Magic, and Staff Lore to be my first masteries at levels 75-80, going for high damage and lowering enemy resistance.

 

That means I have only 5 hard points in Armor Lore and 1 hard point in Toughness, using +all skills to get those up to the 30-40 soft point range.

 

I am depending on Runes of Protection and Familiar to make up for the lack of investment in my defensive skills. So far, that is working out just fine, but things may change soon.

 

Nothing in Tyr Lysia, Artamark, or Nor Plat can even scratch me at this point. (Except for the spitting spiders - even the Artamark species is unusually dangerous )

[Llama8 8]

Ancient Magic doesn't actually lower resistances, it reduces any Damage Mitigation that a monster may have, though I don't think that many have it, the only ones that I know have it are the Ice/Poison/Fire/Earth Lord bosses.

[locolagarto 15]

Ancient Magic doesn't actually lower resistances, it reduces any Damage Mitigation that a monster may have, though I don't think that many have it, the only ones that I know have it are the Ice/Poison/Fire/Earth Lord bosses.

 

I have read this explanation before and it seems sound, however, the bump in damage against all monsters in increased with mastery, the damage bump from 74 points to 75 points is higher than the posted tool tip increase in spell damage. Which makes me think that Armor, even in a low levels, must have a measurable(even if very small) amount of mitigation component to it.

 

I tested several times with a level 75 high elf with 74 points in Ancient magic. I killed several known monsters such as wolfs and Elves and noted the damage. I then applied the single point into Ancient Magic (for Mastery) and repeated with the same monsters and saw a much greater increase in spell damage than what the tool tip indicated.

 

With the much higher monster armor levels present in Platinum and especially Niob, I have always thought ancient magic mastery was a key for maximizing spell damage on my caster builds.

[Llama8 8]

I tested several times with a level 75 high elf with 74 points in Ancient magic. I killed several known monsters such as wolfs and Elves and noted the damage. I then applied the single point into Ancient Magic (for Mastery) and repeated with the same monsters and saw a much greater increase in spell damage than what the tool tip indicated.

Possibly, I tried it once with my single elf that hit 75 & didn't see any particularly material increase in damage at mastery compared to level 74. *shrugs*

 

*ponders* Doesn't one of the log options detail all of the combat details, including damage & mitigation by channel? If so, that would be a simple way to check...

[Capt.Smack87 0]

If the xbox360 had him I could help out with testing just how good a 3 aspect dragon mage is at high levels.I might have to break down and get it on the pc....

[belgarathmth 21]

If the xbox360 had him I could help out with testing just how good a 3 aspect dragon mage is at high levels.I might have to break down and get it on the pc....

 

You totally should, Captain. The Ice and Blood expansion plus the CM patch increase the choices, treasures, and overall experience of the game exponentially.

 

Plus, the base PC version of any game is much more detailed than the console version.

 

I remember I once bought the first version of XBox just to see if maybe the controllers and graphics and stuff would be more convenient and/or fun on my TV than on my PC, (for which my other choice was to get a better graphics card and learn how to hook up my PC to my HDTV), and my then game-of-choice was Morrowind.

 

I got to the very first scene where the guy asked me what skills I had (I.e. would choose), and saw about six choices, where I was used to seeing about three dozen choices on that screen! I played about ten more minutes, becoming increasingly more horrified at the diminutions with every click!

 

"What, only three choices here? There used to be twelve! Where is the option to cast this spell? What do you mean there's no such spell!? Where is the book that used to be over here? Why can't I click on that box any more?" And on, and on.

 

I took the XBox back to the store and got a refund the next day! I have never played a game on a console again!

[Stormwing 40]

I could second the PC-version recommendation. If only it's the sheer volume of additional stuff. And less bugs. Though to be honest, I've never played an ARPG on the newer consoles. Mostly using my consoles for J-RPGs and stuff.