E-bikes

[chattius 2,522]

I allways considered them as bicycles for old people. Well the first ones from a decade back were just this: an easy to enter frame and battery-pack and engine added on the cargo rear.

But now with our daughter wanting to be mobile again after her accident, but muscle training needed for at least one more year an e-bike is to be considered. The damage to her old bicycle was calculated as 800 euro by court and health insurance will pay 1000 euro for an easy e-bike for rehabilitation training.

Both my father and grandfather in law were former motor-bike racers and now run a motor-bike repair shop. So we could save some more money because of their contacts.

 

 

 

In germany e-bikes below 250Watt and automatic power off when reaching 25kilometres per hour can be driven without a license. So the above bicycle would have this, 360WH battery power, recuberation (battery loads when braking), 30 gears, disc brakes, ....

 

We could get one for 2450 euro so 650 euro still to pay. I was trying some e-bikes last 2 weeks and some of them didn't fulfill minimum requiries:

 

50 kilometres just on batteries

below 60 pounds weight

able to drive real bad local roads

looking not like a bicycle for handicapped people (wish from my daughter)

usable by my wife too (as a doc she thinks she could save time using such a thing to visit old people at their homes)

...

 

An alternativ thinking was to go for an e-trike.

 

 

The advantages of a tricycle are:

better muscle re-hab

lower point of gravity when falling

feet-on and no head-on crashes

better suited to watch countryside when driving

three wheels are a better stand when mounting the trike

large cargo area

the bicycle grows: from 120-200cm driver possible by moving the pedals

we know the manufacturer already from our pino-tandem (thread about bicycle tours at darkmatters: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14817)

theft - police reports more stealing off bicycles than trikes

...

 

Disadvantages:

costs - 400 euro more, not counting that the engine has to be attached by my father in law

hills - you can't go out of the saddle at long uphill streets (but have to consider the engine)

transport in bus/train - way harder, because of weight, clumsiness

cars may overlook it more easly because of the low silhouette

...

 

Is any of you considering an e-bike and could share factors like battery endurance, how many load cycles till they have to be changed, front or rear wheel driven (trike would be front wheel), ...

[masteff 64]

While I love the recumbent seating of the trike, if it will be used on regular roads (instead of sidewalks or trails) then I too would be very worried about visability to drivers. On a bicycle, your body mass is at the driver's eye level; but a trike is below eye level so harder to see.

 

I wonder if there are taller trikes that fit your requirements that look more like this: http://www.theelectricbicyclestore.com/products/E%252dMoto-Electric-Tricycle.html

You lose the recumbent seating but still get the extra rear wheel for stability.

[gogoblender 3,068]

Another great article Chattius. I love the reasons set forth for safety and efficiency, but for me, it's kind of important to believe I would have a good chance of being to be able to get it into a building that I was visiting or something. The tricycle comes off as being a tad on the large side.

 

Good news is that you actually got me a bit more interested in actually taking up cycling again this summer, I hope to come back with an image of what I get, and I hope you tell us how your decision went as well.

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,522]

@masteff: I fear my daughter would consider this trike as a trike for seniors and not for a 12 year old. The visibility part is tricky: my wife was trailing me when testing the trike with her car and her opinion is that it is as high as a kids-bike for a 8 year old. And cars shouldn't overlook 8 year old kids.

 

@gogo:The trike from the first post is foldable in seconds to something you can move like a chairwheel. Another quick solution is to just lift the front to 90 degrees and park it on the backside of the seat. So room take is like a chairwheel, but close to 6 feet height needed.

 

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Another solution would be do put all the electric, battery and engine in an easy to attach pusher-trailer. The trailer could be used on any on our bicycles, the tandem and the dog-scooter. Would be technically the easiest solution. No need for super-expensive high quality batteries, no risc to ruin the engine if trying to start at a too big uphill climb, more easy technic and sensors and we could start with normal lead gelee batteries and wait till battery prices drop. At countryside where everyone knows everyone she could also exchange lead batteries at every nearby fuelstation.

But the problematic part on a motorized trailer seems to be the law. A technical institute has to sign for the savety and then you have to visit the local bureau for vehicles, show the savety papers and have to get the final okay.

My belly feeling says to go for the trailer, it has some extra cargo space, more universal, probably repairs could be done by myself, ...

 

 

The above trailer has the advantage that the technical okay as a pusher for sportly touring chairwheels is already done and could be copied for a bicycle pusher.

 

 

The trailer pusher has an psychological advantage too: as soon she medically is no longer needing the electric extra power the trailer would be totally removed and nothing on her yet to buy new bicycle would remember the need for it.

 

Pusher trailer seem to be 120 years old, this one with a STEAM-MACHINE is from 1893:

 

[gogoblender 3,068]

Chattius, what happened with this? Did you guys settle on the Ebike?

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,522]

Grizzly engine

Currently she is using a 4 paw driven dog-scooter, which we bought as a x-mas gift before we knew she had all these surgeries. The dog is a Leonberger, a trained water rescue dog, protective if needed, very tolerant and kid friendly. Our house has 3 metres deep fish ponds all around so we wanted a dog which would be able to pull a kid (even an adult) out of a pond. When the breeder asked for a name starting with a C (third time the mother dog had pups, so a C) we did Christopherus after the saint who carried people across a river and is often with a dog head on images also the dog would be able to carry small kid riders on its back, just like Christopherus. Of cause this is a far too complicated name to be spoken out by young kids so it was soon nicknamed Chris when we got the pup. The dog grew into a 68kilo beast now and the kids were joking with its name by adding a -li, which is slang to for a little thing. So calling it Chrisli, little Chris, like the little John from Robin Hood. But everyone seeing the beast things it is named after the bear Grizzly.

 

A video of a small Leonberger, to compare its size:

 

Paw engine video:

 

 

 

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For the E-Bike:

Decided to go for an Addon-kit, but it takes a week, we want a 622 (you call them 29 inch I think) and not a 26 inch rim which are most sold and would have been available right away:

 

We decided to buy just a bicycle frame to build the kit in. We can re-use the 14 gear hub, the hydraulic disc brakes and the saddle from her old bike. The frame is a robust cargo-bike frame without suspension. Just bigger rims and Schwalbe Big Apple tyres. Something like this:

 

The front cargo holder is attached to the frame and not moving with the wheel, more agile. So she will hopefully be able to visit sports-training for re-hab on her own even with full sport gear in bags. If she ever wants a more sportive bicycle in a year or two this bicycle could be used by my wife, medical bag could be placed on front and rear.

Edited May 9, 2011 by chattius

[gogoblender 3,068]

I'm intensely interested in this now! I'd had a bad card accident when I was a kid. Traffic and busy roads kind of freak me out since. Just a few weeks ago, a friend of mine who lives in Montreal showed us all his Ebikes...spectacular! He had bought them second hand from another friend, they weren't expensive, and we got to try 'em out. Awesome! The bikes make no sound, whisper along bike paths, and you feel so safe, but move so fast! I'm definitely thinking of getting one for next summer, specially after finding this super cool Ebike store that professes green as part of it's personality!

 

http://www.ecomoto.ca/

 

What I liked also was how they divvied up the bikes into three different categories, the middle and right ones look good to me.

 

 

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,522]

My wife likes her e-bike alot. We just refitted her old bicycle with a front-wheel-engine kit. It allows her to do house-visits at old people in evening in her job as a doc without sweating and same time do some training for her own health. Nice to be able to push the engine to a level which allows bicycling at a point which is just a bit below starting to sweat.

Would be probably nice for town people who have a bureau job too. Arriving at work without neat to redress a new white shirt.

 

High-tech, high power e-bikes like the austrian KTM Egnition are a bit too costly for us. And I guess they are close to the point where just having a bit extra power turns into an electric driven motor-bike.

 

88 Egnitions will be build for testing, 8888Euro each. In germany they will be considered light motot-bikes so a license will be needed.

 

http://www.ktm-bikes.at/de/e-bike/e-bike/eGnition.php

 

[chattius 2,522]

After one year of E- bike experiences, I would now more vote for the engine in the mid, driving the chain. Battery placed just above for centre of gravity lowered. For the gearbox I would try out the new Nuvinci. Way to heavy for a normal bicycle but this disadvantage is lowered at an e-bike. The nuvinci has few but heavy parts and has a continous variable trahsmission.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NuVinci_Continuously_Variable_Transmission

 

Cheaper than a Rohloff, but heavier and he transmission ratios cover less. So I will remove the e-bike kit from the bicycle and do a new attempt.

[gogoblender 3,068]

Ah ha...Chattius, I'd forgotten about those deals I had seen with the Ebikes...you have gotten me thinking again now for this coming summer. You're so lucky you have great spaces for using something like this, for myself, it'd be a case of deking in and out of traffic, cars and angry drivers...perhaps one of the reasons for my reluctance to get it so quickly.

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,522]

Do you have special bicycle roads?

 

We have the luck that no longer used railways and roads used to track ships along a river were transformed into bicycle roads. Bicycle roads in towns are a bit more troublesome.

 

Old train with a small track width which was typical in my area.

 

Given up and removed tracks.

 

Old road transformed, used to pull ships with a horse

[chattius 2,522]

We have 2 Stufentandems (not electrical), stepped tandems(?). Nice beasts heads close together, you can talk nicely, both persons have a nice view, front person can get a lot of power out of the laying position,... And when looking at their website they now even have an e-bike version.

 

The picture above has an engine in the rear wheel and a third pair of pedals which can adjusted to the leg size of kids. So a 4 year old can add some power on the front seat.

 

So the addon e-bike front engine from last year was attached to one of the tandems. Oldest and au pair returned from a day trip and had nice results, do I have to say that we had 25C and nice sun today? In difference to a nomal bicycle, the tandem has weight on the electrical driven front wheel, so more grip, but a bit harder steering. Tomorrow I will try with my wife.

 

Bicycle tours thread with intriduction of the stepped tandem.

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14817-bicycle-tours/