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Dragon Mage Magic Staff build?


DaveO

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I looked thru the forums, and the High Elf, Seraphim, Inquisitor and Dragon Mage can use the skill. But a Magic Staff build depends on Intelligence for the damage, and the DM seems to get a better "bang for the buck" from the Familiar buff. I know that % Life Leech is considered the only mod worthwhile on weapons, but would it be possible to make a build that can do significant damage using Magic Staffs?

 

EDIT- I noticed that the Dryad can also use the Magic Staff skill and Acute Mind does boost Intelligence.

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The dragon mage would somehow be the only non-cheating chracter with staff lore.

 

First questions in forum if staff lore in the AddOn would be buggy:

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14317-staff-lore-in-the-addon

 

A massive Area of Effect dryad using the bug/feature? in staff lore

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14581-massive-area-of-effect-dryad-in-the-addon/

 

Our second daughter tried a dragon mage staff shooter while she was recovering at hospital from a skin grafting.

 

Dragon Mage staff shooter

 

Pro:

Fun, it is something different

Can do great defense power

High firing rate

 

Contra:

Just normal attacks which do no Area of Effect

No killer attack like x% life leech or gust of wind

 

I think my daughter said starting gold difficulty you have to re-aim quickly, using camera angles for long distance shooting, ...

The trick was to have damage lore, do a shot on a target with a fire or poison staff and quickly target the next while damage lore once mastered does the killing...

 

Sorry to can't say more, long distance sniping is not my play style (hand and eye surgeries). My daughter is currently in france for 2 weeks with her school class.

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Thanks for the reply, and I think it's much better to use a character that does not exploit the staff bug.

 

So far, I created and have a level 12 build. I do agree that Damage Lore should be part of the equation.

 

Out of the skills, I have picked:

 

1. Magic staffs

3. Armor lore

5. Concentration

8. Dragon Magic Focus

12. Mentalism Focus

 

At the moment my DM has a lousy 27-33 or so one handed staff, but with boosted Intelligence from Familiar and every level point going into Intelligence each shot does around 60-70 damage.

 

I know I'll need Constitution, Spell Resistance, and Damage Lore as additional skills. That leaves two skills left, and I was thinking about Bargaining or Enhanced Perception as one. I don't know if the staff attack is counted as a weapon attack or not. So I'm not sure if Ancient Magic would be a good choice or not. Alchemy is far better than the scaling attack speed of Magic Staffs so that's another required skill. To be on the safe side, Shield Lore may be a good final pick.

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I looked over Alchemy, and the boost to attack speed is around 40 seconds at Mastery for the trophies. This does not look to be a good investment, so I'll not choose it. I may check out if Ancient Magic affects the projectiles, but I'm hesitant to take a skill that may be useless. If I had to boil down the build to required skills, so far magic staffs, armor lore, concentration, and Dragon Magic Focus make the list along with Spell Resistance and Damage Lore. If enemies get close, I can use Gust of Wind to blow them back and attack them from range again(which is why I'm not sure you need Mentalism Focus). I definitely think Shield Lore should be part of the build to enhance protection from Runes of Protection and to give additional help for debuff situations. The same applies for Constitution, so the final choice would probably be Bargaining.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Enemies will reach your character regardless of Gust of Wind or Damage Lore. With that in mind, here is what I believe will make a good staff build.

 

1. Magic Staffs

3. Armor Lore

5. Concentration

8. Dragon Magic Focus

12. Mentalism Focus

18. Damage Lore

25. Shield Lore

35. Constitution

50. Bargaining

65. Spell Resistance

 

I do believe that Shield Lore with Runes of Protection would make the DM a tough nut to crack for anything that gets close. The Magic Staff ranged attack fires fairly quickly, even at low levels so I'd not go above 1/3 level initially since you are better off developing skills that help the build perform better. Since Damage Lore triggers secondary effects, I'd say that keeping it at your character level would have the largest benefit of any single skill.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm really interested in this. I have always had an affinity for staff-fighting magical characters. Please keep us updated on how your magic-staff DM does.

 

I currently have a triple-aspect caster DM, from whom I have taken a rather long break, but I'm thinking about getting back into to playing him. He owns gold level with his spells, using his staff and shield for supplemental damage only (and +% to recharge), but I would be very interested in trying a pure staff-fighting build.

 

Especially this is so with Christmas coming up, as I have always been attracted to St. Nicholas/Santa Claus as an RPG build idea, and St. Nicholas' icon is the white-horse(I.e. draconicon)riding bishop with the crooked staff.

 

Another beloved icon/archetype that comes to mind is Friar Tuck from Robin Hood lore. Fat, jolly, wears nothing but robes, is a spiritual leader, and kicks butt with a staff. :xmastree:

 

P.S. - I've been a huge fan of yours since your Might and Magic days, Dave-O. Your history of the Might and Magic series over at Celestial Heavens rocks! :paladin:

Edited by belgarathmth
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I switched the level 25 and 35 skills since I was having issues with the low hit point bonus provided by just Familiar. I moved my DM to the next difficulty (Silver) in Single Player since level 25 is the best level(in my opinion) to make the transition. I don't have the third modifications to Familiar or Runes of Protection, but that's a minor concern at the moment. I do see some use for elemental damage socketing(ice crystal, poison fang, etc) for the applicable staff. Fire staffs seem fairly common at vendors even with no Bargaining yet. I picked Elemental Magic for my Draconicon mount, and I believe the combat arts from that area could be quite useful. At the moment, my plan is to use +skills from multiple sets to help this build along.

 

P.S. - I should mention that the build is my idea of what would work best. I seriously doubt that I will go beyond Silver difficulty for any online or SP build.

Edited by DaveO
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  • 1 month later...

I'm having my doubts in regards to the viability of this build. While it's nice to do elemental damage with distance attacks, I have seen how useful % life leech is on weapons or as a set completion bonus. The DM has no set that provides % life leech. Against bosses, I'm not sure how useful this build could be. At the moment, the only thing I see going for this build is Damage Lore and flexibility with multiple elements for the staff attack.

 

EDIT - Now that I believe I've seen most of the available quests, I might as well see how well this build fares in Silver. The worst case scenario would mean that I've wasted time on the build, but I'd rather give it my best shot and see if there is alternative power besides % life leech.

Edited by DaveO
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I faced the Goblin Chieftain, and I know it's safe to say that this build won't work without changing the skills. In other words, the DM Magic Staff build would work much better if we had skills that increased our spellcasting offense. So let's look at what's needed for skills and look at what support options are available.

 

I know I need at least seven skills for sure:

Magic Staffs

Armor Lore

Concentration

Dragon Magic Focus

Mentalism Focus

Constitution

Spell Resistance

 

If I wanted to completely maximize spell casting support, then the only skills left would be Ancient Magic, Elemental Magic Lore, and Combat Discipline. I'm not 100% certain about Elemental Magic Lore since I don't have the Focus skill listed.

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Now that I've had time to think over the build and what skills would best complement it, I don't see a better offensive option than to go for maximum spell and magic staff damage. This will be achieved by putting all level attributes into Intelligence. In terms of skill progression, I'd proceed along the following route:

 

2. Magic Staffs

3. Armor Lore

5. Concentration

8. Dragon Magic Focus

12. Mentalism Focus

18. Combat Discipline

25. Constitution

35. Elemental Magic Lore

50. Ancient Magic

65. Spell Resistance

 

I decided to take Bargaining off as a skill since I believe that unique staves cover at minimum fire and ice damage.

 

I definitely would master Ancient Magic first since it decreases enemy resistance globally. I would make Combat Discipline the second mastery due to its global damage bonus to all DM trees. Since this build would have modification points for each of the three DM trees, I would make the following selections:

 

Familiar - Firebug, Quick Mind, Energy Flux

Dragon Strike - Heat, Heat, Fury

Eternal Fire - Licking Flames, Hunger, Death Blow

Dragon Berserk - Fury, Steal Life, Frenzy(this is optional since it's for melee attacks)

 

Destroyer - Explosive, Swarm, Explosive

Gust of Wind - Stun, Squall, Impact

Tornado - Storm Zone, Unleashed, Critical

 

Energy Blaze - Confusion, Impact, Afterglow

Maelstrom - Burden, Extension, Demoralize

Edited by DaveO
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I should emphasize that this build is a bit weak in comparison to a melee build. I also believe that boss hunting is going to be a challenge with the build until masteries come into play. I tried fighting against the character-specific Dragon, and my build is in my opinion too weak at level 35. I'd change the first mod of Tornado from Storm Zone to Storm Force since Zone seems to do almost nothing.

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I was able to defeat the character specific Dragon once I tried again at level 50. I have two partial sets to provide +8 to all skills(Pyx and Draagen). I pumped Ancient Magic and Combat Discipline to 80% of character level, so my spells are doing more damage which should help against bosses. Gar'Collosus was not too difficult, and Tornado was doing some good damage against it while I was shooting away. I'm almost done with quests in the second act, so I should hopefully move on to the Orc region before I hit the monster level cap in Act 2. Deathblow on Ignis Magica is helping out versus all enemies, and damage in comparison to melee is almost the same. I'll probably run some more SP toons to higher levels before revisiting the build and seeing how he fares versus the tougher bosses.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After leveling a melee Dragon Mage up to level 25 and moving him into Silver on SP, I went back briefly to this build. I'd say that % physical damage rings and % damage from blacksmiths do add significant bonuses to spells and the Magic Staff(including the ranged and melee damage). While I do take some damage, mitigation from Glacial Defender and Torik's Shoulder helps quite a bit. I don't know how well this compares to gogo's High Elf Secret Agent build, but don't forget that Gust of Wind has stun as its first modification.

 

In terms of equipment, I have the Pyx chest armor along with the arms and shoes. Draagen's belt, gloves and greaves round out the second partial set(both give +4 to skills in Silver with 3 items).

Edited by DaveO
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I realized that skills could be optimized better with the following order:

 

2. Magic Staffs

3. Armor Lore

5. Elemental Magic Lore

8. Concentration

12. Dragon Magic Focus

18. Mentalism Focus

25. Constitution

35. Combat Discipline

50. Ancient Magic

65. Spell Resistance

 

In terms of Gust of Wind modification, I believe the Radius mod would be more useful since it provides opportunities for damage streams to combine together for even more damage. I'm not sure if Impact or Poison Mist is the better Gold modification(I'm leaning towards Poison Mist since it adds poison damage, and a LOT of DM spells do only physical damage).

Edited by DaveO
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  • 4 weeks later...

I am curious.

 

Why no tactics chosen?

I tried it for not only shooting distance wise but close up fighting as well, and tactics as I remember affects the shots (and crits) too.

 

I took one of these to 25 in silver and had no problems.

Bosses took a while, and I was eating pots, but I didn't have my defense up to the level it would have got to later.

I wanna try it again, but I got other builds I'm fiddling with at the moment.

I chose a two handed staff though, for damage, and it freed another slot up.

 

I too focused on the secondary damage, and if I remember right used bargaining to pick up any staff that had two damage types, and socketed in a third.

 

It was so long ago I can't remember much about it though.

 

I'll prolly try one again

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I'd probably have to test the effect of Tactics Lore on the build. The problems I see are twofold. The first problem is that I will have VERY limited time to work on Sacred 2 builds for the next few months. The second problem is that one skill has to go for Tactics Lore. You could drop Combat Discipline or Ancient Magic(probably a better choice to drop) since Tactics scales a bit better.

 

I should mention that I'm by no means an expert. As you've seen, I have revised the build a few times already. :Just_Cuz_21:

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Dropping Combat Discipline for Tactics Lore makes sense for this build. Since Tactics affects both the Magic Staff melee and projectile damage while Combat Discipline only affects Combat Arts, Tactics offers better damage(especially since monsters will get into close combat). I'd choose Combat Discipline ONLY if you're using Combat Arts a lot or want combos.

 

P.S. - Lucky sevens across the board for my post count on this reply.

Edited by DaveO
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  • 6 months later...

After more thoughts about the build as well as the Familiar buff, I decided to rebuild my DM Staff shooter with slightly different skills.

 

2. Magic Staffs

3. Armor Lore

5. Elemental Magic Lore

8. Concentration

12. Dragon Magic Focus

18. Tactics Lore

25. Constitution

35. Ancient Magic

50. Mentalism Lore

65. Shield Lore

 

In my opinion, the Willpower bonus from Familiar should make Spell Resistance not required. Also, Mentalism Lore seems to complement the capability of using the Combat Arts to good effectiveness. I know that Mentalism Lore won't provide a huge buff capability like Focus can, but I believe that Mastery for Shield Lore makes up any defense loss from Mentalism Focus.

 

 

P.S - Because of how good the Familiar buff adds to Willpower and Intelligence, I also made a DM using a lightsaber. The Community Patch provides multiple opportunities to get better lightsabers at specific quest points.

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I would not drop Shield Lore. You will not be able to use higher level shields without taking a big attack speed penalty. The extra defense is also worthwhile.

No one has convinced me that Spell Resistance (the skill) even works, except for the mastery. [it works.] DM with a Familiar already has monumental spell resistance from Willpower. Likewise, Runes of Protection can grant a big chance to block spells.

Also, Mentalism Focus would take precedent over Mentalism Lore.

Regardless of how well you put this together, I think no staff-using DM will compare to one using combat arts.

I made a Dragon Mage with the intent of using a magic staff, but the damage and speed of Mind Strike eclipsed even the most powerful of staves. And that's just one spell. When you combine it with the others in his arsenal, using a staff is a long, hard way to get mobs killed.

Edited by Flix
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My DM Staff build is using a staff complemented with the Combat Arts. Picking Mentalism Lore instead of Focus is meant to also add more damage to the Mentalism Combat Arts. I know that the damage and attack speed are low in comparison to other builds. Even though staves do low damage, the Intelligence boost from Familiar makes each staff projectile hit do roughly 600 damage per hit(based off my level 50 toon). So the staff would soften up enemies, and Combat Arts would help to finish them off.

 

In the Ultimate Warrior Shadow Warrior build thread, there is mention of how the Willpower bonus was not enough on higher difficulties. I don't know how the buff modifications were done(I'm assuming spell reflection was taken), but I'd rather have a toon that can survive in any area on any difficulty. To me, that means all characters that can pick Spell Resistance will take the skill. The toons that don't have Spell Resistance might be able to handle Gold or possibly Platinum, but certainly not Niobium from what I've read.

Edited by DaveO
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Well look at it this way, if you're going to use your staff, you may as well maximize what you can get out of the staff. That's why I was ready to get you to take Tactics Lore after reading half this thread before I saw you change your skill lineup to add it. The intelligence bonus from the Familiar is good but not enough without Tactics Lore, as I'm sure you've realized. I still think you should use a shield and take shield lore so you can use higher level shields without taking a big attack speed penalty.

 

I have a Dragon Mage in Niobium, and without Spell Resistance (skill) he still weathers spells just fine. Not just because of the Familiar, but also because of the aforementioned Runes of Protection (and also Combat Trance). These two skills add a big chance to block spells and to resist secondary effects, respectively, and they are why I would push you to use Mentalism Focus, so that you can eat many runes in these arts and keep your regen low.

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