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chattius

Underestimated item modifiers

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There are quite a few item modifiers people don't use because they shine only at high levels, examples:

 

Chance_to_halve_regeneration_time

I think we all were told when we started to play Sacred2 to read just 1 rune. The main part of CA-levels to be got from socketing +combat arts, because socketed CA-levels have just the half regeneration penalty. But at high levels: an amulet will have +15% chance to halve reg-time. So with just 7 such amulets we would got rid of all the penalty from reading 200 runes. Every calculated how many amulets with +all combat arts are needed to reach 200 runes, probably more than the 7 just mentioned.

So why people don't use this modifier?

It eats too much sockets early game and people rarely change an early game strategy?

 

 

Combat_art_range

Honestly, I think everyone tried this once and never tried it again, The win of range is just too low. What change my opinion? Believe it or not, it was a Spidergirl dryad. Equipped with a staff and shield both adding +CA range. High-level Tangled_Vine suddenly not only rooted all in front and close to the kungfu, but all close and around the kungfu.

Now add that the CM-patch has a new set of sigils with +CA range. Know that the elf and the dragon mage both have sets with +ca range.

So what is the win if we put all 4 sources together? Around 50% win at real high levels, and it is Area of Effect, so the covered area win is squared; 2.25 = more than double the original area covered.

 

So if anyone was puzzled which character I was playing lately: ColdMeteor.

A build based on Incendiary_Shower. The character would use the Faladal's_Blizzard set normaly used by Ice-mages. The idea is to push the area hit by the meteors big enough that every target in melee range to the elf would be hit. Sadly just level 50 because lack of time and my first approach is certainly not optimal, but I think the build is something new.

ColdMeteor is you guess a CM-patch build.

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I think the only time I've looked at it was when Scooby Douche put together an article on the wiki a while back:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Combat_art_range

 

I'd be interested in seeing how you're able to push with this. Sacred can and has gotten pretty entertaining when rarely use item mods are focused on.

 

:)

 

gogo

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Dual Nlovae's Mystery? Unfortunately the Elf cannot do that!

 

Inquisitor with Clustering Maelstrom with both Vortex mods. It is good 8)

The Elf's firewall was quite underwhelming with just the Nlovae+Glacial Defender setup... but I never tried the meteors! Chattius, you just keep the good thingtm's coming!

 

Just never went too far with "chance to halve regeneration" because of my inability to go past level 100-130 with any of my toons... as you said you cannot get near 100% until the higher-levels... and 50 or 60% really isn't good for that mod.

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Yes, chance to halve regen time should be either at least 99% or nothing at all. Even 95% are a double time at every 20th try and a sequence of 2 fails is 1 in 400 and will happen at the wriong (boss) time.

 

I am not really sure if the firewall/firestorm is using combat art range at all. Have too look it up at spells.txt when I am back at my play machine. But the meteor shower depends on combat art range.

 

I guess I have to ask the family's graphic artists (not me) to do a screen shot with expulse magic circle when surrounded. Then a graphic program could overlay the radius of the meteors at different combinations: staff, staff and shield, staff-shield and faladal and all 4 together. Just to get a feeling how big the covered area will be.

 

While we are at it: does anyone know if critical hit modifier on items adds to spells in ice and blood?

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The reason people don't use chance to halve regen time, is because it limits the amount of +skills/+damage rings they can put into their gear. If CTHRT can spawn with +damage, then it's probably OK.. but for a caster character, if it can't, then it's pointless. I'll take +50% damage to whatever element I'm using over a 15% chance to halve the regen. You simply do more damage this way. I agree also, that it's either 100% or nothing.

 

Also, spells that have a cooldown on top of regeneration time aren't going to benefit much from CTHRT. It's a very niche mod that only works for a few circumstances.

Edited by Eternalspirit

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Damage is allways 2 parts on a scale:

 

base damage and +x% damage multiplier of the base damage

 

CTHRT will work mainly on the base damage side. You can go higher CA-levels = better base damage. Many Combat Arts also have a build in x% damage modifier which climbs with higher CA-level.

 

You are right saying that it is not always useful, but I think it is a mistake not to put at least a quick calculation if it fits into a build.

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You are right that you need to balance +x% damage with CA levels, however, when you're sacrificing ~450% damage just to halve the regen time.. I don't know man. It's worth it to check, but I'm having trouble thinking about a build that could take advantage of it.

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I think you all know the pictures in sacredwiki about combat art range, you needed good eyes to see a difference and if you have: anyone ever saw the possibilities of this modifier in the CM patch?

 

So here is Mr: Kol L'Ateral. Every modifier to enlarge combat art range is taken. It is a Two and a half menaspect build. Dragon magic lore for dragon strike and hitpoints, elemental lore for destroyers, mentalism for runes of protection (ENLARGED STUn RADIUS!) and Maelstrom modified to reduce armour and stats of enemies. Ancient magic mastery only deals with damage mitigation and does nothing to high physical armour. So having a big range maelstrom helps a destroyer build.

 

mahlstromklein.jpg

mahlstrom640.jpg

 

Items needed for the level 108 build:

23.5% from Draagen's_Legacy except 1 item, I took away shoulders and did Torik's_Spaulders

21.2% from the 3 sigil set, german name LeGaLeum (only CM-patch 1.30 and higher?)

10.6% from Nlovae's_Mystery staff

6.3% from Glacial_Defender shield

 

+61.6% combat art range at level 108. So probably more than 70% are possible at higher levels.

 

So a dragon strike with 1250 combat art range will do more than 2000 combat art range, challenging a high level Temple Guardian in Area of Effect area covering.

 

 

I am currently researching how combat art range is affecting destroyers:

Does it affect explosion radius, distance where destroyers will be created, both or none of it.

 

So which builds (in CM-patch) could use combat art range specialozation? Dragon mage and high elf have it as a set bonus so 60% + are possible. Temple guardian would be worst, the other would allow 40%+ in CM-patch.

 

So for people who are interested in the character I used for the tests:

 

It was an old experimental Sohei-build, having alchemy instead of a weapon skill. Constitution, familiar for more hitpoints, damage mitigation from toughness, shoulders and shield (same which has combat art range :) ). So the idea was to defend this character with high real and virtual hitpoints and have the healing potions with less delay and better healing because of alchemy. So the playing was quite easy: having regenration per hit around 8seconds, all Combat Arts as high as possible, hunting orcs for troll teeth to have +attack value... kinda replacing a weapon skill with alchemy- The character was not designed for combat art range specialization, The kill range is high so you have to run big distances to find a living enemy and recharge Combat Arts with a weapon hit.

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Do we know for sure that +combat art range affects the radius of a combat art's effect and NOT the maximum range away from the target that the player can to be to cast the CA?

Edited by Eternalspirit

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The moving whirlwind of the dragon mage hits a whole group at each damage tick with this build, a dragon strike covers nearly the whole screen, a fire skin on an high elf affects not only direct neighbours ... so yes, it's the Area of Effect range which is modified.

 

Remember that combat arts which do a kind of shooting: ice splinters, gust of wind, flame wall, ... do not use combat art range.

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And here it is: A spidergirl in full action in CM-patch 1.30, platinum difficulty:

 

wuwu.jpg

 

Just equipped a spidergirl with all items which add to combat art range: known staff and shield, and the sigil set which came with cm-patch. More than 40% +combat art range. This was a SINGLE Tangled_Vine spell.

 

Looks as if the cm-patch allows tangled vines for group killing, at least starting gold difficulty.

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And here it is: A spidergirl in full action in CM-patch 1.30, platinum difficulty:

 

wuwu.jpg

 

Just equipped a spidergirl with all items which add to combat art range: known staff and shield, and the sigil set which came with cm-patch. More than 40% +combat art range. This was a SINGLE Tangled_Vine spell.

 

Looks as if the cm-patch allows tangled vines for group killing, at least starting gold difficulty.

 

Interesting, is that with the gold mod to increase Area of Effect chosen?

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Yes, gold mod adds to range the higher the ca-level is. Add that the item's modifiers increase with higher level and difficulty. So there is a value for the radius when it spreads to neighbiurs. With cm-patch you can hit even the third row of enemies.

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Combat Arts and their range



th_seraphim2.jpgSeraphim

Maximize CA-range with:
Classic:
dual-wielding Nlovae's_Mystery

Community_Patch:
dual-wielding Nlovae's_Mystery
Full sigil set: KilthEmAl
6 pieces of Virtues_of_the_Seraphim
gloves: Pulse_of_time
will add to nearly double the normal radius at levels 150+

Combat Art Ranges
Assailing_Somersault 400 for the stun, not the damage
Battle_Stance 1500+5 per CA-level,
Hallowed_Restoration 1000
Radiant_Pillar 750, 1000 with silver mod
Instill_Belief 500+5 per CA-level, 1000+5 per CA-level with bronce mod
Cleansing_Brilliance 750+3 per CA-level, 950+5 per CA-level with gold mod
Flaring_Nova 650, 1000 with silver mod



th_dryadavatar.jpgDryad

Maximize CA-range with:
Classic:
dual-wielding Nlovae's_Mystery

Community_Patch:
dual-wielding Nlovae's_Mystery
Full sigil set: KilthEmAl
will add to around 40+% in levels 150+

Combat Art Ranges
Forest_Flight 250
Dust_Devil 700, 1000 with gold modifier
Viperish_Disease 200, 280+1per CA-level with gold modifier
Tangled_Vine 50, 250+1per CA-level with gold modifier
Goldenglade_Touch 1000

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Pillars with a radius as big as a bosses' threat circle? :twitch:

 

Or a level 250 Brilliance buffsuit for 2200+CA range bonuses in the swamps?

 

Novas will hit 3rd or maybe 4th row of enemies...

 

Shame all that is needed just to get Somersault into a decent Area of Effect attack :(

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Nice to see the Sigil Sets are already put to use. :)

 

The english name for the mentioned Trisgemma Set is KilthEmAl, afair. Have Fun. XD

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It's quite strange that for the seraphim you got 2 Nlovae's and the Sigil set, yet forgot about Virtues of the Seraphim set, that has Combat Art Range as a completion bonus for 6 items.

 

Most of my Seraphim builds use Flaring Nova and I always try to increase its radius as much as possible. My current seraphim is only level 50 now and is wearing Virtues set and KilthEmAl sigil set to get CA Range bonus for Novas. I can say that I feel the difference even without dual-wielding Nlovae's and on low levels. Maybe the difference is not drastic, but it comes at no price, as items from the Virtues set are quite a good thing to wear for a low-level seraphim (at least for melee and hybrid ones) and Sigil sets give bonus even when they aren't in the active slot.

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Overlooked it probably because I haven't played a Seraphim in the CM-patch yet. I have it added now, overworked it a bit, and perhaps if I find some time it can become eiter a guide or addon for the wiki-entry for combat art range modifiers.

 

Do you think the part for the Seraphim is okay now? So around level 150 70+% vombat art range are possible with the seraphim? The only other set which came with CM and has ca-range is the nine hells for elf?

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Sorry, it looks like I forgot to add one more item for the Seraphim. Pulse of time (Gloves from Sopor Aethernis set) also has Combat Art Range modifier. But I believe this is the only item that is missing from the list.

By the way, is there a reason why you preferred Faladal's set over Nine Hells for your Meteor Shower build?

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Mainly because I had Faladal set in my chest already :) Problem at the meteor build: the meteors are spread too much over a big area, and even pumping metors to highe4st level doesn't help much :( So having frost spells as a back up help a lot.

 

With the Gloves, hmmm around 90+% ca-range winning is possible for a Seraphim? This would be close enough to try out a Sommersault build?

 

Added the items with ca-range and the ranges for the dryad

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/19514-underestimated-item-modifiers/page__view__findpost__p__6938175

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Maybe the modifiers are underestimated because their rarity is disproportionate to their benefit?

 

I am building a DW Seraphim using Assailing Somersault as an Area of Effect. Sans CM, there is only a single item that offers the Combat Art Range mod. A little too much of a long shot for that mod to be a cornerstone of my build.

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Nice ideas. One build I'm currently trying is a seraphim bow build (fallen angel so no RPH). Using ettol rahc bow, aiming for 100% chance to halve regen and high % chance to knockback opponents. Using low regen pillars to reduce attack rating, and I hope that with multiple pillars that even 40,50? per cent knockback can be effective. Having 3 pillars on screen with 40% each to knockback might be effective. Currently level 72 with pillars at 1.6 sec regen and a 27% chance to knockback, doing Gold difficulty and I think it will do well in NIOB'.

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Update - Farmed the orc cave, had 32% chance to knockback with radiant pillars at 1.6 sec. Works really well, the orcs slide back letting you put more pillars up. In the swamp not so effective as creatures come from all angles. Gonna be a few areas on the map where knockback might not be worth it.

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Update - Farmed the orc cave, had 32% chance to knockback with radiant pillars at 1.6 sec. Works really well, the orcs slide back letting you put more pillars up. In the swamp not so effective as creatures come from all angles. Gonna be a few areas on the map where knockback might not be worth it.

 

That's why the swamp is one of the more memorable areas in the game and feels like it's actually bogging you down. Slow, wet, dark... Most of your strategist are useless because of low speed, and the enemies are always hard to reach. At least thats how it's supposed to feel.

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I knew the swamp was gonna be trouble with the specific build I'm using (plus some of my combat art times are a tad too high). I think SOME bosses can be affected by knockback - Bloodclaw was IIRC? - gonna have to pay more attention and do a little testing.

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