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#1 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:48 PM

I've always wanted to try one of these, but never put much effort into it, and I have about a hundred builds of some type started somewhere, so getting to all of em is impossible of course...

But now on MP I'm trying out an unarmed build as a challenge. I haven't got a box full of rings and Denedarian pieces like I got for Single Player, so it's my new challenge of sorts.

Has anyone built one of these to any high level?

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#2 chattius

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:59 AM

Unarmed shadow warrior or unarmed in any class?

Dryad has these nice unarmed double-kicks which are even double-kicks if using a shield. So you have a better protection, 2 more sockets than a normal unarmed build if you go dryad. The advantage of an unarmed build is that you save a skill, but you have to get your attack speed from equipment!!

Remember the speed of weapon combat arts is from casting speed and weapon skill, speed lore helps nothing. Shadow warrior without CM-patch has no x% life leech attacks. For an unarmed build death blow equipment is a must have in my opinion. Guess you have read into the kungfu dryads already?
Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.

#3 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 11:42 AM

Unarmed shadow warrior or unarmed in any class?

Dryad has these nice unarmed double-kicks which are even double-kicks if using a shield. So you have a better protection, 2 more sockets than a normal unarmed build if you go dryad. The advantage of an unarmed build is that you save a skill, but you have to get your attack speed from equipment!

Remember the speed of weapon combat arts is from casting speed and weapon skill, speed lore helps nothing. Shadow warrior without CM-patch has no x% life leech attacks. For an unarmed build death blow equipment is a must have in my opinion. Guess you have read into the kungfu dryads already?


Absolutely bro. It's what made me think about trying any other unarmed builds, what you would need, how you would compensate for no lore attack/cast speed, what is the damage needed at higher levels, et cetera.
Denedaran has LL % built in bro,w/o the patch. It's the core of the build, just like the core of the build is Detheya's for the kick flipping ninja girl.

I've fooled around with unarmed for all characters (even a TG) and am trying to take advantage of the unarmed animation speed for each. SW has a pretty knarly speed at 100 percent attack speed. I got one single player as well, but he was more the guinea pig, as the one MP is at 44. I wanna see how the character is built inside out.

One of the things I'm trying to decide now is how to finish the build out, since Denedaran is a Malevolent Champion set, and I'm trying to decide if I should choose it instead of Spell Resistance, as Niobium has some pretty ugly spell crits to survive. Lemme get a vid and I'll post it up and you can see how he's doing so I can explain better.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#4 essjayehm

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 02:13 PM

Absolutely bro. It's what made me think about trying any other unarmed builds, what you would need, how you would compensate for no lore attack/cast speed, what is the damage needed at higher levels, et cetera.
Denedaran has LL % built in bro,w/o the patch. It's the core of the build, just like the core of the build is Detheya's for the kick flipping ninja girl.
Sorry, JK... That's fixed LL, not %. You need the CM Patch to get the "super-set"... forget the name, lol... that has the % LL for completion.

I've fooled around with unarmed for all characters (even a TG) and am trying to take advantage of the unarmed animation speed for each. SW has a pretty knarly speed at 100 percent attack speed. I got one single player as well, but he was more the guinea pig, as the one MP is at 44. I wanna see how the character is built inside out.

One of the things I'm trying to decide now is how to finish the build out, since Denedaran is a Malevolent Champion set, and I'm trying to decide if I should choose it instead of Spell Resistance, as Niobium has some pretty ugly spell crits to survive. Lemme get a vid and I'll post it up and you can see how he's doing so I can explain better.

Well, maybe I solved your MC concern already... but if you have the Grim Resilience buff, that eliminates the need for SR, IMO...based on what others have written about GR post-Ice and Blood.

Heh... just thought about an unarmed Spectral Hand build "I slap yo face from across the battlefield" :4rofl:
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#5 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 03:30 PM

Well I'll be danged. It is fixed amount. I guess I wasn't paying attention.
I think it'll still work out okay MP, just the kill speed will just be slower is all. Hmmm. Does throw a monkey in the wrench.
Maybe SP is what I should build this one for primarily, but maybe both'll work out...:cool:

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
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#6 Stormwing

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:16 AM

It'd be Kanka's set for %-LL. Tad hard to find. That "Talk to the hand" approach sounds somewhat different from what I've tried before. Only Hand-build being Veiled.
Guess I should launch Sacred 2 for a change, been playing Saints Row 3 quite intesively last couple of weeks. :P

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#7 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 07:39 AM

It'd be Kanka's set for %-LL. Tad hard to find.


Has anybody got the whole set without tweaking drop rate? I've only seen three, and I play a whole lot.

That "Talk to the hand" approach sounds somewhat different from what I've tried before. Only Hand-build being Veiled.


That it does. It sounds more true to the form of the spectral 'hand' anyway, huh?

Guess I should launch Sacred 2 for a change, been playing Saints Row 3 quite intesively last couple of weeks. :P


Gawd. I've seen the demo on that'n. You can do some amazing stuff in that

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#8 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 07:15 PM

Well, finished Silver in MP with the fister. It reminded me of fighting Diablo a lot, cause it took me fifteen minutes to beat all four.
Interesting thing was how strong the defense was. I am curious to see if it continues to be as is.

Although the MP it doesn't have the leech percent, I believe it will still survive and thrive in Niobium, although the boss battles will be much uglier than in SP.
Natural unarmed animation speed is pretty quick, and even at a cast speed of 119, it does a lot of mayhem damage in a combo.
The SS combo with the rage mod chosen followed by DB is particularly effective. During the guardian fight for instance, you would see damages of 56, 56, 2200, 2200. The FR combo doesn't necessarily do lots of damages to bosses, but it hits a whole lotta times, and w the poison mod does some elemental and leeches with that mod chosen too.

With the SP LL% it's gonna be similar to the claw builds, as I see it, a tornado of ripping destruction.

I also in SP built a Seraphim with a full revelation set. Although the CA chain is not as interesting, the build is easier ==
Battle stance can increase damage output automatically.
Dashing Alacrity increases both attack and cast speed dramatically, and can be set up for chain casting.
-- At level 32 with only one ring for casting speed increase, DA gives 145 cast speed. Pelting Strikes hits six times normally, and Soul Hammer gives an uppercut.
-- Assailing Somersault can be set up for the only chance to hit multiple enemies and stun, so once Combat Discipline is chosen, can LL% damage a crowd simultaneously
One more Armor Piece means more slots to socket.
You can set it up for one aspect, which allows for more skill choices.

I'm curious that no one has checked either out for the possibility before (or at least posted anything about it)

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#9 Stormwing

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 03:59 AM

Well, have been playing with that in mind, since seraphim is one of my faves. Though never tried to thread into unarmed before. Might as well do an experiment one of these days. I should have full Revelations tucked away somewhere. Planned to go with the ultimate leecher build, but those Kal'Durs are quite hard to come by. :P

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#10 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 09:53 AM

I am wondering if the drop rate on MP servers is any different than with the CM patch for crazy items like Kaldur's or Ice Flash.

I know I picked up some stuff in Gold in MP a coupla items I barely see in SP. Is there any difference, or was I just a fortunate guy?

-- Edit --

It is by no means an 'ultimate' build for leeching, but one that is pretty dominant is a LL% claw build.

I got one set up for a Seraphim with a full rev tech build with a 'queen of claws' build easily into Niobium, but as it was my first Niobium build I didn't focus on defense nearly enough. She had a 5.7 leech per hit.
Finished Niobium with two claw guys for the SW Denedaran, and they both had 5.6 per hit. The speed of animation for the SW was OMG really fast at 150 cast speed, and is the best character for a 'speed leech' character by far that I've played.

Edited by JKtheWonderguy, 08 December 2011 - 10:01 AM.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#11 chattius

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:49 AM

I am currently trying to turn my niobium shuriken-smith shadow warrior into an unarmed build. It was played to niobium using a shuriken, but I will try how far I can go playing the niobium campaign unarmed. It is kinda a Captain America build: shield and fist. The unarmed hard hit attack does 2 strikes: one with shield, one with fist. So the idea is to use the hard hit as a pure physical double strike: armour piercing, open wounds, death blow (with luck the first hit brings a target into death blow range), double explosions for area effect. Very much like the kungfu dryad, but no x% life leech set. But I know that the dryad can kill normal and champion mobs unarmed with a decent speed.

Build with shuriken was quite robust: shield lore, toughness, constitution, armour lore and 2 defensive buffs. Add tactics, 2 foci, combat discipline, concentration and smithing. Smithing kept the equipment up to date. Casting speed and hit chance can be get from the temporary buffs. So the main idea is to add a lot of damage x-x, deathblow and regeneration per hit. The build currently has 199 runes read into each buff and 100 into demonic blow. The 17seconds regeneration time are countered with 8.2 seconds regeneration per hit (1 item, 3 rings. double hits so only half reg per hit is needed).

Hopefully an armour piercing deathblow critical triggers an open wound at bosses when I try the campaign ;)
Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.

#12 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 10:07 AM

Dude that sounds dominant.
Have you thought about using the scything sweep to set up the demonic blow? If you'll look at the stats, the rage mod will push your stats up real high, and for me I look at the sweep like a Shield Bash. It kinda looks like a shield bash if you use a lil imagination...

There is something you've brought up that I've wondered since Sacred One you may be able to help me with. I sure hope so.

Since you are using Death Blow, Open Wounds, Damage Rings, Plus All Skill Rings (I assume), et cetera, I'd like to see which items are socketed how.

Since you've read so much runes into the buffs, I assume you don't buff suit up. I've never used a suit for anything but a trading suit, cause I can logically think about 'dressing up to go shopping' but not 'dressing up to buff up'.

Do you socket in Runes? Do you use the Smith Arts to fill in all slots, or do you put rings/ammy's in all slots?
How do you balance the damage rings and other rings with ignore defense, deathblow, opponents can't evade?
I've read lotsa guides that say 'you just gotta balance it'. How?

If you can post a vid on showing you socketing diff stuff, and the skill you've on smithing, it'd clear up a lotta questions I have on how to get there.
I've spent hours on some characters trying to 'balance out' diff stuff, then play test, then try out diff stuff, but I feel like I haven't been able to get all I can get outta it.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#13 chattius

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:30 PM

Balancing is tricky. You start with rings reg per hit just .2s, but late game it are like 1.8s. Damage 2-2 changes into damage 40-40 rings, ....

So the factor between silver and niobium is not same for all modifiers. Lik 10 for reg per hit like 20 for damage x-x rings, ...

So you really have to get a feeling when the graphs of the changes turn from one optimal mofifier to the other. For example in niobium it is quite easy to get 100% chance to half reg times, but it will eat up all slots in silver. For most of my builds there is a point when socketing combat arts takes more sockets than reading the runes and countering it with half regeneration times.

I will try to post the shadow warrior captain america when I finished niob. But today I will be busy with Plaetzchebacke, cooking x-mas cookies with kids.
Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.

#14 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:17 PM

Balancing is tricky. You start with rings reg per hit just .2s, but late game it are like 1.8s. Damage 2-2 changes into damage 40-40 rings, ....

So the factor between silver and niobium is not same for all modifiers. Lik 10 for reg per hit like 20 for damage x-x rings, ...

So you really have to get a feeling when the graphs of the changes turn from one optimal mofifier to the other. For example in niobium it is quite easy to get 100% chance to half reg times, but it will eat up all slots in silver. For most of my builds there is a point when socketing combat arts takes more sockets than reading the runes and countering it with half regeneration times.

I will try to post the shadow warrior captain america when I finished niob. But today I will be busy with Plaetzchebacke, cooking x-mas cookies with kids.


Oh yeah bro. Going to an XMas party later, so I understand priorities :xmastree:

Looking forward to seeing how you do it. The best teacher as I see it is an 'over the shoulder' look on how other peops do it.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#15 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 04:30 PM

Update:
Bareknuckler in SP with Full Denedaran Set is ripping through peops pretty well. Cruised inta Plat easy. I'll show the build later when I finish Niob.
Bareknuckler in MP is revving up pretty well too. Killing speed is starting to pick up, and I'm pretty stoked about the build.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#16 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 09:34 PM

Alrighty. Fixed leech in MP for denedaran set is less than I can get in any ole ring.

That's just not cool.

Well. Maybe I can go for seven pieces and add something from another set, or a unique or somethin.

= Update =

Using a Grave Plate chest piece, and Seven Denedaran Pieces.
With normal rings and ammy's and socketing, pushed the damage to just under 1000 per hit.

Niobium and better bargaining will push it bigger.

Edited by JKtheWonderguy, 30 December 2011 - 08:25 PM.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#17 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 07:24 PM

Alrighty. Learned a lot on how do these thingers.

My build last was three denederans pieces (for the plus skills)
Cold Grave Chest piece (for the plus and mitigation)
Legwraps and Shoulders from Eternal Silence
Armatin's Hat and Feet

Footspeed of 150 in Niobium, which is cool :)

Current build, which may change --

Tactics
DW focus
Armor
Combat Discipline
Shield
Concentration
Constitution
MC focus
Combat Reflex
Spell Resist

First build had the last two switched for speed lore and toughness.
But I think this'll work better

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#18 MalekilX

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 07:30 PM

Yeah, after the first death, you tend to go for a more "safe" build. I hope I will see your new boxer in action soon :)

#19 JKtheWonderguy

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 08:30 AM

Yeah, after the first death, you tend to go for a more "safe" build. I hope I will see your new boxer in action soon :)


You will bro.
I don't think it is the 'safe build' as much as an attempt to maximize the power and minimize liability.

HC closed net has ceased, but in our hearts it cannot die

-- In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable.
Dwight D. Eisenhower


#20 chattius

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:42 AM

Okay it was the CM-patch and its x% lifeleech set for the SW. But my SW finished Niobium campaigne unarmed and shield bashing yesterday. Same double-hit , x% life leech and exploding hits idea as for the spidergirl dryads.
Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.




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