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Help deciding on Skills for Ice & Blood


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#1 hylin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

I apologize for making a new topic on builds, but I've read several guides as well as some of the threads below and I still didn't find my answer. I'm playing on Ice & Blood PC right now (but I'm more familiar with PS3 version).

My build is the dual wield so the first six skills is pretty cookie cutter, Tactics Lore, Armor Lore, Dual Wield, DW Focus, Concentration, and MC Focus. But the last 4 I'm going back and forth on since Ice and Blood changed some things versus console. My original plan was the following:

25 - Constitution
35 - Combat Reflex
50 - Combat Discipline
65 - Spell Resistance

I read that Ice and Blood has some strong casters, hence the Spell Resistance instead of Toughness. But I've also read that Damage Lore was much improved on Ice and Blood. Is Damage Lore worth taking for my build or would the secondary effects boosts not matter that much for SW? I plan to run on fully modded Grim Resilience and Reflective Emanation, so my defense should be good, but all 4 of those skills seems essential to me.

Also, I saw that Furian's Ultimate Warrior guide did not take Constitution, and Constitution benefited my SW alot on console. What's the reason for it? Was Constitution nerfed?

#2 Steerpike1

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:21 PM

I'm not an expert on shadow warriors, as I found it odd that their main combat skills made two aspects (so you had to play a two aspect build), but my advice would be as follows. Keep constitution - I don't know if it was nerfed or not, but more hit points and regen is never a bad thing (it's one of the skills that on a melee build I have set up to go to mastery when I get level 75). Forget about spell resistance, as I've never struggled even in Niobium without if. It's the icing on the cake of a defensive build, not something to aspire to. I'd put Toughness in at level 50, and push Combat Discipline back to level 65. (Although I'd drop that, as I don't think it's that useful unless mastered, and even then as combos can be interrupted it's of questionable use*. It may be better to go for the weapon type lore you are using, as this opens up the bonuses on the weapon. That said, if you are lucky enough to be using unique weapons, you won't have to worry).
* This is my experience of the skill. I'm sure there are a tonne of players who will tell you Damage Lore is the best skill ever, because it works for them. Also, my experience is largely based on playing melee seraphim, not shadow warriors.

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#3 DaveO

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 06:31 PM

Combat Reflex skill would depend on how cookie cutter you are going in terms of gear. If you have Grim Resilience modded for evasion and are planning to use the Armantin set, then I'd skip on Combat Reflexes. I would not bother getting Combat Discipline since it's really a waste when you're likely only using a few CAs from the Death Warrior and Malevolent Champion aspect.

I'd definitely take Constitution and Spell Resistance. I tend to take Toughness if the gear I'll be using also has damage mitigation. From what I've read, the Damage Lore skill becomes very good once mastered. You could think about taking Enhanced Perception so that this first build has a better chance of finding stuff.

P.S. - If you want to be really safe and/or a tank then a combo of Toughness with Combat Reflexes will make the SW a harder nut to crack.

P.S.S. - Out of the skills that I mentioned, I'd take Constitution, Combat Reflexes, and Toughness. There is still debate over Spell Resistance and whether it's needed for a SW on Niobium in the Blood Forest. My suggestion would be to add in the final layer of defense and put points into SR.

Edited by DaveO, 07 December 2012 - 06:41 PM.

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#4 hylin

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 08:29 PM

I enjoy playing the high dps, high evade type of melee characters in most rpg's, and normally in other games, the character is made physically weaker to compensate for their overpower. But for Sacred 2, it's awesome that Shadow Warriors can do the assassin-type build but also make him very, very durable.

I'm building this guy to be evasive, so GR I modded him Rejuvenate-Discipline-Safeguard, while RE I modded Tough-Antimagic-Reposte. So in this regard, I think I'll keep Constitution and Combat Reflex, I'll evade as much as I can, and when I do get hit, my high hp and hp regen can tank it out.

I took Toughness on my PS3 SW and found it was a bit overkill, that's why I was thinking of going for more offense. But Damage Lore doesn't seem to benefit SW that much since his Combat Arts are all physical and I also won't be modding any poison effects in Demonic Blow and Frenzied Rampage. So does that mean I will only benefit from Damage Lore if I have gears with status effects or socket them with it?

For Combat Discipline, I'm mainly taking it for the -10%/-20% regen, but it's one of the last skills I will master so I still has to think about it. I never took Combat Discipline on PS3 but almost all the SW builds/guides here calls for it, so I thought it was good on PC. Also, from what you guys are saying, it seems that if I can only take either Toughness or Spell Resistance, Toughness is still better for Niob?

#5 chattius

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

Damage ober time
3 ways to receive damage from it:
A) Secondary hit effect
You are hit be it a spell or weapon. You may receive wounds, burning or poisining. This damage is half brutto of the hit for around 5 seconds. So even your armour resistances will reduce a 1000 damage hit to just 100, if it invokes f.e. wounds - these wounds will create 500 damage every second for 5 seconds. I think it is same for poison and fire (correct me if I am wrong, vaklid for rest of post too).
Spell resistance does 2 things: At mastery it reduces the time the effect is on (1-2 ticks of damage instead 5 I think). And for a spell hitting you the original damage is reduced a bit.
So how to counter this type of damage: not getting hit (dodge, block, reflect, defense) of if hit spell resistance or the modifier reduce secondary effects.

B) an attack which does damage ticks
Example like the ice storm of the elf. Each damage tick is considered a spell attack and can be blocked/reflected. Also on each tick damage mitigation (toughness) and resistances will work.

C) A spell with a damage over time modifier which is not a secondary effect
Frioststrike (elf), Energy Blaze (DM). You can block/reflect the spell before it puts the effect on you. Once it is on you need: damage over time -x% stuff.

So with knowing this all, Spell resistance is an all or nothing. Either mastery or don't take it. You can get the mastery effect with 5-6 carefully choosen amulets in niob, but same is valid for toughness too. So it depends how free you are in what you can socket and which modifiers your preferred set will have already.
WHow I think I should link this post to my guides.

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#6 DaveO

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:36 PM

The only reported need for Spell Resistance was versus the Demons in the Blood Forest. The spell they use is bugged, and does quite a bit of life leech.

If you're not planning on visiting the Blood Forest often, then you can consider skipping Spell Resistance.

From what I've read, the Damage Lore skill will cause a secondary damage effect regardless of the damage source(Physical, ice, fire, or poison).
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#7 DaveO

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:15 PM

Just as an addendum, I find it difficult to recommend Spell Resistance as a skill. You'll only possibly need it on the harder difficulties, whereas other skills are useful in all difficulties.

From your skill choice thoughts as well as my second thoughts about available skills you have Constitution, Combat Reflexes and Combat Discipline. The last skill choice is your option. You could choose Damage Lore(chance to cause secondary damage) or Enhanced Perception/Blacksmith(EP helps to find better items and Blacksmith is an alternative to the game Blacksmiths for better benefits if they are high enough).
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#8 lujate

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 04:40 PM

I never played SW, but in Niob you absolutely must have something to counter the attacks of the cursed demon mages in the Wastelands and the eyes in the Cursed Forest.

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#9 hylin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:11 AM

If I leave out both Toughness and Spell Resistance and go for Combat Discipline and Damage Lore, will I be too weak for bosses and champion mobs in Niob?

I think Constitution and Combat Reflex go well together and for my build, since I'm going for offense, I will most likely look for a lot of offensive bonuses and modifiers in my weapons and gears. Will my defense hold up with just those 2 defensive skills (I will also try to buff up my Grim Resilience and Reflective Emanation through gears)? I really hope I don't have to make up for the lack of dmg mitigation/spell resistance by having to get them on gears bonuses/sockets, because then it would totally defeat the purpose of getting the offensive skills.

#10 DaveO

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

I'd go with lujate's recommendation to take Spell Resistance. I did not realize that there were more areas than the Blood Forest where it would be needed. The four skills you listed on your first post are just fine.
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#11 hylin

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 03:04 PM

thanks everyone, I'll go with those then.

I'll create a backup save at level 50 and use the last 2 slots to test out skills I might like, but I probably won't see significant difference until mastery, like Damage Lore. It's ok tho, after all, isn't playing and tweaking builds part of the fun of Sacred 2? :P




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