In need for some Seraphim advice

[Enferian 1]

Greetings,

 

I ve decided to come to Sacred after a very long time and level up a Seraphim... Since its been a long time since I played I d like to ask you for advice....

First of all, a general question...

With the servers shut down (hence no trading possible) and considering the fact that I m not a fan of bargaining (I prefer to kill things than go from shop to shop trying to find good items) is Enhanced Perception a must for a single character play through? In other words will I be able to complete Platinum difficulty without getting EP or support from another character? Or the items I will find will be too weak to make me effective?

 

Secondly, if I go for a celestial magic build (paired with either Ex Warrior or Rev Tech) is Ancient Magic better than Combat Discipline? In other words, is the -% enemy resistance from AM mastery that huge that my Celestial Magic CAs will be near useless without it?

Note that I m not planing to finish the game at Niob difficulty and thus I m not going to reach such a high level that will allow me to master many skills...I assume I will master only 5 of them, therefore the usefullness of AM will determine if I will master it or if I will ignore it completely and substitute it for something else.

 

Thirdly, would it be effective to go hybrid with Ex Warrior and Celestial? I mean will I be able to get enough defence/armor to survive in melee, enough attack to not miss on my attacks and still maintain high enough damage on both aspects?

 

Also, since I ll be playing softcore up to platinum do u think that mastering only 2 defensive skills will be enough for me to survive? I was thinking of mastering only Armor Lore and Constitution and use Divine Protection often perhaps with Warding Energy Lore with only 1 hard skill point...

 

Finally, is it viable to invest in 2 aspects but alse take a 3rd aspect skill just to mod 1-2 CAs without using anything else form this aspect? I mean if I go for Celestial-Rev Tech is it worth taking Ex Warrior Focus in order to fully mod Dashing Allacrity for more movement or casting speed? Or if I go Celestial-Ex Warrior is it worth taking Rev Tech focus to mod Divine Protection and/or Warding Energy?

 

I dont even know if people still read this forum and play Sacred 2 anymore and thus if they will lbe able to help me, but I thought it was worth a try...

Sorry for the very long post

And Thank you all in advance for your help,

Enferian

[wolfie2kX 528]

Welcome back! Yeah, there's still quite a few hard core players who hang out here still. Tho some have branched off into different games - Diablo 3 or Guild Wars 2. But they still hang out here.

 

That said... Let's see...

 

1.) Yes! YES YES! YES! EP is a must if you're not going to do bargaining and you're not going to have some sort of shopping thing going on. Without EP, your drops will suck lemons and without bargaining, you're going to pay through the nose for any goodies you might happen to find in the shops.

 

2.) I'm not entirely sure as those are two skills I don't normally deal with. Most of my Seraphim have been of the Exalted Warrior variety - lots of hacking and slashing with Rev Tech as a backup and I usually take CM Focus to unlock some mod points so I can fortify some of those CAs.

 

3.) Yes... You can go the route of locking yourself into only ONE aspect but that only makes the game that much more complicated and difficult. Each aspect, IMO, has things that are useful at different times. Like when you're up against something that's got life leech - you want to put things like that down fast and hard and from a distance - BeeEffGees are good for doing this. Or times when you're underground somewhere and there's a rat or some other critter hiding behind a wall - and you can't shoot them or slice 'em up - so Radiant Pillar works a treat for taking them out - or at least getting them to move out of hiding.

 

4.) I think you've gathered where I stand on this - but yes, it's not a bad idea to take a skill from the 3rd aspect - whichever it may be - for the same reason you mentioned.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion and others may have a different view.

[claudius 104]

If you take EP with 1 pt it won't make much difference. I am playing a high elf with no help from other toons whatsoever. I am finding enough gear to be competitive, but honestly I am level 71 still in the human lands of gold, ha! So I am playing easier enemies than I would if I were in platinum at 71. (though if I were in platinum I would have better gear so it's not as much difference as one would think).

[Enferian 1]

Thank you very much for the quick replies

They are very helpfull!

 

Wolfie, you mostly confirmed what I suspected thus solving my dilemma

 

Claudius when u say that 1 pt in EP wont make much of a difference, do u mean that it wont hurt my other skills in the build or that I wont see any big difference in drops and thus its not really that important to take it?

 

One thing I d like to clarify regarding (3)...

I never though of going for only one aspect... I was planing on using 2 aspecrs with Celestial Magic as my main aspect but I dont know if Ex Warrior is a good choice as a secondairy aspect

 

I mean Ex Warrior and Rev Tech are a great combo, since u get shields and close range nova from Rev Tech to help in melee combat from EX Warrior and also Archangels Wrath benefits from attack and your weapon dmg if I m not mistaken both of which are high in such a spec.

Celestial and Rev Tech are also a great combo since u also get shields and they both have spell based CAs and thus u dont need a high chance to hit and they both gain bonus from ancient magic and any casting speed bonuses u mihgt have

 

But I dont know if Celsestial and Ex Warrior work well together.. u need to invest at pretty much everything... weapon dmg and attack (high chance to hit with Ex Warrior CAs), good defence since u ll be at close range a lot of the time, high magic dmg to make celestial magic CAs effective...

 

I m just wondering if I will end up with a very weak character or if I will be forced to change my spec to use Celestial as secondary aspect and make Ex Warrior my main which I dont want to do...

 

Thank you,

Enferian

[claudius 104]

What I meant about EP is that 1 pt you only see a small effect, although it does unlock EP (xp and %valuables). For the gear unlock EP 1 pt is decent.

 

But 1 pt in any skill doesn't make much impact unless you have access to shoppers and put +skills.

[Enferian 1]

So I should take it and invest alot of points or I shouldn't bother at all?

[claudius 104]

It's up to you. Some skills unlock a lot with 1 pt like concentration. As you said you can only have like 5 skills 75 if you don't play niob. So you have to think overall what is best. Skills with only 1 pt except concentration and the like don't make a huge impact. You could master 4 skillls and then also put substantial points in the remaining unmastered skills. 20 points in EP might be helpful. 1 pt won't make a substantial difference. Some people master EP because after all ARPG is about loot right?

 

If you have a lot of +skills then 1 pt does a lot more.

Edited May 26, 2013 by claudius

[Enferian 1]

I was hoping that I could be able to find quite a few +skills items and use EP relics to increase it even more...

 

I guess I l w8 untill higher lvls and decide whether to take it or not based on how many +skills items I have...

Thanks for the input

 

Any advice regarding Ancient Magic and Combat Discipline?

Edited May 26, 2013 by Enferian

[Ysne58 236]

EP is one of the skills that is boosted with relics. So even at level one, if you find 3 relics that boost ep by one, that's 3 points right there. And you start finding +2 at about level 15 to 20. So with 1 hard point you can get bonuses.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Thank you very much for the quick replies

They are very helpfull!

 

Wolfie, you mostly confirmed what I suspected thus solving my dilemma

 

Claudius when u say that 1 pt in EP wont make much of a difference, do u mean that it wont hurt my other skills in the build or that I wont see any big difference in drops and thus its not really that important to take it?

 

One thing I d like to clarify regarding (3)...

I never though of going for only one aspect... I was planing on using 2 aspecrs with Celestial Magic as my main aspect but I dont know if Ex Warrior is a good choice as a secondairy aspect

 

I mean Ex Warrior and Rev Tech are a great combo, since u get shields and close range nova from Rev Tech to help in melee combat from EX Warrior and also Archangels Wrath benefits from attack and your weapon dmg if I m not mistaken both of which are high in such a spec.

Celestial and Rev Tech are also a great combo since u also get shields and they both have spell based CAs and thus u dont need a high chance to hit and they both gain bonus from ancient magic and any casting speed bonuses u mihgt have

 

But I dont know if Celsestial and Ex Warrior work well together.. u need to invest at pretty much everything... weapon dmg and attack (high chance to hit with Ex Warrior CAs), good defence since u ll be at close range a lot of the time, high magic dmg to make celestial magic CAs effective...

 

I m just wondering if I will end up with a very weak character or if I will be forced to change my spec to use Celestial as secondary aspect and make Ex Warrior my main which I dont want to do...

 

Thank you,

Enferian

 

Let's look at the CM set of CAs..

 

1.) Baneful Smite - shoot lightning at your enemies.

2.) Radiant Pillar - the infamous column of light that impales and roasts enemies alive.

3.) Instill Belief - Gets your enemies to fight each other by temporarily making one of them your ally.

4.) Hallowed Restoration - heals you (and potentially your allies)

5.) Cleansing Brilliance - Buff - burns T-Mutants and Undead

 

As such, these make wonderful CAs - in a backup role - (my opinion, mind you). Of these only Baneful Smite has a chance at being a primary attack. To be honest, I find the High Elf's Cobalt Strike to be more effective if you set it to chain multiple times. The Inquistor's Levin Array likewise has more potential.

 

Radiant Pillar is great as long as your enemies stand still. Even with the mod that has them being drawn into the pillar of light, they don't tend to stand there long enough to be fried effectively (like you see in the opening video where the Seraphim fries a lich). More often they still manage to escape and come after you.

 

Instill Belief - This looks good on paper, but as a CA for defense...? I'm not so sure about this. First off, it only gives you the CHANCE to convert one of the baddies to your side. At lower levels this isn't very effective especially because of the second reason - it has a 30+ second cooldown and regen cycle. Even with all the RpH you can find and socket, you can't spam this CA in case nothing happens the first time around. Third, it has ZERO effect on bosses. This might be useful in a situation where you're going up against an enemy that has minions (some of the dragons like Xanthiar who has young dragons and dragon cultists to tend him or the Spider Queen who spawns spiders regularly) - but against say Gar' Colossus - it's useless as they have none.

 

Cleansing Brilliance - Buff - This one is VERY useful against undead and T-mutant mobs. Even if you're not attacking them directly, they're still taking damage. Also has the benefit of shedding light on things when you're in a cavern. Makes it easier to see where you're going.

 

So all in all, you're going to need one of the others to boost your ability to kill. Remember: The faster you kill something the less likely it will kill you.

 

I was hoping that I could be able to find quite a few +skills items and use EP relics to increase it even more...

 

I guess I l w8 untill higher lvls and decide whether to take it or not based on how many +skills items I have...

Thanks for the input

 

Any advice regarding Ancient Magic and Combat Discipline?

 

Well.. Let's look at the CAs you've got available under EW... They're all pretty much weapon based CAs. In which case, Ancient Magic would be kind of useless since it only boosts non-weapon based CAs. So the answer to that would be no... not really.

 

But for Celestial Magic, Ancient Magic would be nicely complimentary as it will boost all of those CAs.

 

Combat Discipline allows you to have 3 item combos until mastery where you will get to use 4 CAs in a combo. It also - slightly - boosts weapon damage.

 

Unless you're a big fan of combos, I'm not so sure it's worth the effort. Boosting Tactics Lore would be more beneficial. Tactics - in the case of a Seraphim - will also give her extra mod points. I'm not such a big fan of combos in Sacred 2. Why? Because unlike the original Sacred, you can't use the same CA in a combo more than once. Where in the original game, you could spam say fireballs at your enemies, you can't do that in Sacred 2. I'm not entirely fond of Combos in Sacred 1 either - as the process tend to be slower than if you were to do things yourself...

[Enferian 1]

Thank you all for your advice...

Reagarding EP I decided to take it at 1pt and boost it with relics and +skill items..

 

I ve seen some pure caster builds and some Celestial builds on these forums and they seemed interesting, this is why I wanted to use CM as my main aspect.. but since all magic CAs in Sacred 2 need a high level to reach their potential I wanted to use another aspect to help me at the lower lvls... even though I havent decided what to do yet...

I ve leveled a seraphim until level 55-60 using CM as a back-up aspect and I wanted to try something different...

 

If I were to use CM and EW then I wouldnt take Ancient Magic at all, but Combat Discipline increases all CA dmg if I m not mistaken (and this is somewhat confirmed based on the archived wiki entry... I will have to test it though just to be 100% sure) and thus it could be usefull.

CD even at 1 hard point offers +dmg for everything and 10% lower regen for combos . I m not a big fan of combos either, but if u use 1 CA in a combo u can get the lower regen and the option to regenarate them using potion of Concentration which could be very usefull.

 

On the other hand if I were to go for CM and Rev Tech then ancient magic could be usefull since it would increase dmg for all my CAs, but it I seems very weak before mastery. Also in that case I think it would be a good idea to take all the dmg I can get

 

Looking at the wiki tables for AM, CD and Aspect lore u can see that AM is weak without mastery...

At 74 pt bonuses u can see that AM offers +86.6% dmg.. this is achived with 39pts in CD and 26 in aspect lore.

(I chose to compare the 74 pt bonuse since its the highest bonus without mastery that u can see in the wiki)

 

Also assuming I will be able to master 5 skills, I was thinking of mastering 2 defensive and 3 other more or less offensive skills, 2 of which would probably be 2 aspect lores. This would leave me with one more skill to master... this is why I was thinking about CMor AM if I went for a CM/rev tech build...

So to express my dilemma in other words: does AM offer more +%dmg for a CM/rev tech seraphim in general when mastered than CD or is it used mostly because it can break immunities which are the bane of single aspect magic users/casters?

 

Also one more question... what do u think provides more dmg... to increase aspect lores above mastery or to add those points in some other skills like aspect focus or Combat Discipline/Ancient magic?

 

To be more specific I was thinking of using one of the following builds:

 

1. CM/Rev Tech

-Armor

-Constitution

-WE lore or toughness

-Enhanced Perception

-CM Lore

-CM focus

-RT lore

-RT focus

-CD or ancient magic

-EW focus(to mod Dashing Alacrity) /AM orCM (for more dmg)/ Concentration (for even lower regen and perhaps double buff when Cleansing Brilliance is needed) or a defencive skill

 

or

2.CM/EW

-Armor

-Constitution

-toughness or WE lore

-Enhanced Perception

-CM Lore

-CM focus

-Tactics lore

-EW focus

-weapon skill

-RT focus (to mod Warding Energy and/or Divine Protection)/concentration/CD or a defensive skill

 

What do u think? (keep in mind that I ll be playing soft core and that I m not aiming to complete the game on Niob, but this might change eventually)

 

Sorry for the veeeeeery long post...

Edited May 27, 2013 by Enferian

[essjayehm 58]

Heya, Enferian! I have slotted in some responses below in red

Thank you all for your advice...

Reagarding EP I decided to take it at 1pt and boost it with relics and +skill items..

 

I ve seen some pure caster builds and some Celestial builds on these forums and they seemed interesting, this is why I wanted to use CM as my main aspect.. but since all magic CAs in Sacred 2 need a high level to reach their potential I wanted to use another aspect to help me at the lower lvls... even though I havent decided what to do yet...

There is no reason you can't be a viable caster toon in the early going, no real need for another aspect just for the early game. You just need to build your toon up correctly; sometimes a couple of nice drops can make things easier, but magic damage is viable from start - finish.

On the other hand if I were to go for CM and Rev Tech then ancient magic could be usefull since it would increase dmg for all my CAs, but it I seems very weak before mastery. Also in that case I think it would be a good idea to take all the dmg I can get

 

Looking at the wiki tables for AM, CD and Aspect lore u can see that AM is weak without mastery...

At 74 pt bonuses u can see that AM offers +86.6% dmg.. this is achived with 39pts in CD and 26 in aspect lore.

(I chose to compare the 74 pt bonuse since its the highest bonus without mastery that u can see in the wiki)

When playing a mage, if you are primarily using 1 aspect for damage, then you want to pump up the lore, but for 2/3 aspect toons, then AM is the choice for which skill mastery you need mastered first. Combat Disc. is usually brought up later in the toons life, since the lore has much more damage, and the resist-reduction of AM is a huge boost to spell damage that isn't displayed in tooltips.

Also one more question... what do u think provides more dmg... to increase aspect lores above mastery or to add those points in some other skills like aspect focus or Combat Discipline/Ancient magic?

bringing another skill up to mastery before pumping points past mastery, in general, is better.

[lujate 574]

FWIW, here is triple aspect seraphim I ran thru Niob on HC. She did have shopper support though.

 

-TL (1)

-EWF (21 pts only)

-CL (2)

-CF (21 pts only)

-RTF (3)

-AL (5)

-WEL

-AM

-Cons (6)

-CD (4)

 

For Combat Arts HR (modded for HoT) in virtually every combo and DP (36 sec up, with 4 sec cooldown) does wonders for survivability. Get enough RpH and end every combo with PS, and you can spam whatever you want.

 

HTH

[Enferian 1]

ssjayehm that cleared things up for me and I think I ve almost made up my mind for the build I m going to use...

 

I was always afraid to go in Niob with 3 defensive skills and only 2 of them mastered but since u did it, lujate, and on HC nonetheless, I feel more comfortable to do it now myself, even though I only play SC.

I might give a try to the triple aspect build too sometime...

I wonder if other classes can be effective at triple aspect builds... I might try it if I ever have the time...

 

Thank you all for the help

I wish all forums were as helpful as this one

Edited May 27, 2013 by Enferian

[Enferian 1]

I started a CM/Rev Tech build and it goes fine for now...

But I m concerned about AW...

 

AW is my hardest hitting CA for now in these 2 aspects and it surpases other CAs by a lot but it seems to be affected by attack value. Therefore I m concerned about its usefulness in higher levels. Since I m going for CM and Rev Tech I wont invest in any skill or attribute that gives +attack and I m afraid that at higher difficulties my +%to hit chance will be very low.

 

After browsing the forums I found this post http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/14091-archangels-wrath-combat-art/?p=6881066

It says there that "AW has a not shown fixed attack value which scales with Combat Art-level."

 

If AW indeed works like this then I have nothing to worry about. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

 

What should I do if it doesnt work like this and works like weapon based CAs? Can I replace AW with Baneful Smite at higer levels (perahaps after Ancient Magic mastery) as a single target champion or perhaps boss killer? Is the attack bonus from Battle Stance enough to make AW reliable?Or do I have to socket -enemy chance to evade or +attack items on my gear to increase the chance for AW to hit?

 

I m asking because I still have a few skills to pick and I want to decide if I will stick with the caster build or switch to a hybrid...

Edited May 29, 2013 by Enferian

[DaveO 88]

Archangel's Wrath should be a guaranteed hit with the Lock modification. The only thing I can think of that can cause the CA to miss or fail is terrain.

[Enferian 1]

Thank you for the reply...

 

Excuse my scepticism, but are u sure about that?

I think I ve seen it miss even when I m face to face with my target.

Also from what I read in the forums the general consesus is that is it more like a weapon based CA and as such is affected by weapon chance to hit.

[wolfie2kX 528]

The only other time I've seen AW miss - even with the LOCK modification - the target moved rapidly away from where they were standing at an angle less than 90 degrees. In other words... You're standing at the south position, the target is in the center of a circle. They move towards the Southeast or Southwest.

 

The LOCK mod can correct aim if the target moves to the northeast, due north or northwest from their starting position, but it can't change the flight of the missile(s) to make them come back that hard. In fact, I'm not even sure it can change the flight of the projectiles anywhere close to 90 degrees.

[Enferian 1]

So my % chance to hit with weapons doesnt affect AW in any way?

Even if I have 50% chance to hit with weapons, AW should still do dmg to the enemy if the projectile reaches him?

 

Right now I have about 55-60% chance to hit some champions and sometimes when figthing champions they are standing on top of me or running straight towards me but even though AW seems to hit them they dont take any dmg... nothing... and of course I am talking about champions that dont have any fire resistance.

 

How could this happen? is it a glitch because I am standing too close to them or something?

[Mystix123 60]

As far as I'm aware, Attack Value does play a role in AW (like in all hybrid CAs). I've seen AW make contact with a mob without any damage triggering (including with Lock) many times. This is both for the console version and one of the earlier PC versions.

I don't know if this applies beyond a certain patch on PC, but I can assure you (Enferian) that you're not alone in this observation.

 

Also, Lock can hit mobs in the described scenario (though, not reliably). Again, I'm not sure if this is something specific to the console version, but I've seen AW make some huge curves to hit enemies.

 

An example of some curvature (in a less extreme version of the scenario) can be seen here:

[claudius 104]

I never thought that Archangels Wrath didn't need a to hit check. Lock just makes sure it will collide with the target. From reading dark matters I believe chattius found that Magic Coup got a big bonus 'to hit' and the bonus scaled with CA level. In fact Coup has a -evasion mod. From those two sources I conclude that Coup and Wrath to have a to hit check. Otherwise, why the mod on coup? Also detecting a scaling 'to hit' chance on coup implies a 'to miss' chance.

You could try it out with a level 5 bronze toon and see if he always hits gahanka. If it missed that would confirm missability. You could look at the tooltip of gahanka after he is dead to make sure that you didn't just have 100% hit anyway. Don't use battle stance/whets because the test is a look to confirm a miss; all hits don't prove anything if the gahanka tooltip says over 100.

So 2 reasons:

chattius reports a 'to hit' scaling for Coup, but that implies a 'to miss'

coup has a -evasion mod. Why have that if there is no check to miss?

[Enferian 1]

Glad to know that both Mystix123 and claudius confirm what I noticed and that I m not imagining things

 

Since AW has a to hit check what do u think I should do?

1.Add some +dmg/+attack value blacksmith arts on my socketed gear to see if I can get my AW's chance to hit to a reliable level?

2.Use -evade rings/amulets on gear?

3.Replace AW with BS at higher levels? Since AW doesnt seem to benefit from Ancient Magic (I hope that someone can confirm this) it might be possible that BS will surpass the dmg of AW at higher levels (after AM mastery)... Can anyone offer some insight about that?

 

Thank you all for your help

Edited May 30, 2013 by Enferian

[claudius 104]

I'm not sure about Banesful Smite damage late game. What I would do if on ice and blood and consoles is to put Archangels Wrath as the last attack in a combo and then set rph rings and -evasion/whets. Then your wrath will be allowing a high Baneful Smite combat art owing to the rph.

 

I suspect a pure caster seraphim won't work without awesome gear and mandatory Ancient Magic to punch through resists. Baneful Smite I think can only hit two people and it would take a long time to kill.

[Enferian 1]

I have Radiant Pillar and Flaring Nova for large groups of enemies...

I just want AW or BS for single targets.

Therfore BS will be modded with electrocute (for the added DoT dmg which as people say it stacks with itself) and AW will be modded with lock instead of explosive.

 

Btw I m on Ice and Blood on PC and I m aiming for a pure caster seraphim with Ancient Magic mastery at level 75.

 

I ll try your suggestions about RpH and -evade/whetstones and see how things go.

I just hope that the build will not fail miserably and that I wont have to start over

I was saving some skill choises in case I decided to forgo the caster route and go hybrid but I think that I will stick to the caster type... It seems that I always end up doing things the hard way

Edited May 30, 2013 by Enferian