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Planning my next pc purchase and looking for ideas!


Schot

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So! Ysne's topic about her new laptop has gotten me all fired up for my own new pc. I've been waiting quite a long time now to upgrade. My main components are from 2008 and every since I got news of Haswell last year I've been holding my breath. No more!

 

I'm tired of my HUGE tower pc and I'd really like something compact. I don't really need a laptop since I already have an i5 laptop with a nice built in radeon card. In fact it's very possible that it's a much better performer than my desktop... With that said here's what I want:

 

  • Something compact (mini itx or micro atx?)
  • 4gen intel i5+
  • DDR 3 2+ slots
  • pci e x16 slot for video card
  • pci slot for wifi adapter
  • USB 3.0
  • 5.1 audio inputs
  • option to upgrade parts
  • doesn't need to be portable
  • I already have SSD & IDE drives
  • I don't use CD/DVD drives
  • I use two monitors

 

Am I missing anything? The intended use will be for gaming as well as 2D & 3D design. Main programs used are Diablo III, Guild Wars 2, Photoshop, Illustrator, blender 3D etc... As far as housing the pc I'm entertaining thoughts of rigging it to the read underside of my desk. Crazy, I know.

I've been building my own pc's for about ten years now and I'm pretty comfortable with doing it so in general this is no problem. I'm just not accustomed to working with smaller form factors or what they're really capable of. Though computers are getting smaller and smaller...

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Blender, illustrator, .... This is IMUO not allone a matter of the CPU anymore. The programs can use CUDA.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

 

In my experience, with a fixed budget, it is often better for the performance for these programs to balance the money more to the graphic card and not to the CPU.

 

The 400 series oF nvidia has 32bit floating point support, so it is nice for maths.

 

But maths are watt eaters, so don't do the case too small. Some of the new board/case combinations are for normal bureau work. The cooling rips of the fan often hit the case top. Lot of noise andvibrations.

 

For gaming, thats only tertiary in my priority lidt, but what isgoodfor maths isnormally good for gaming too.

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OK.. Just my 2 cents here - but the "Book" PC or ITX form factor bites big wind...

 

Every single time I've come across one, I've done nothing but curse the stupidity of the design. Why?

 

1.) The motherboard, power supply and the case are pretty much married to each other.

2.) Replacement components tend to be ludicrously overpriced.

3.) They're ultra cramped to work inside of.

4.) NOT much in the way of expansion.

 

I had a client a long while back who bought a bunch of them from HP. They couldn't be opened, had NO room for any sort of optical drive, Very limited expansion by 2 USB ports only. Getting one open to replace a hard drive was pretty much IMPOSSIBLE without special tools.

 

Another idiot friend of mine who was used to an ancient Compaq luggable (think sewing machine sized case and BLOODY HEAVY) thought one of those book jobs would be perfect for taking with him when he travelled up north to manage his property up there. He was utterly, hopelessly WRONG.

 

His power supply let the magic blue smoke out and needed to be replaced. BUT since his PSU was a specialty item that was designed to fit only THAT case, replacing it would have cost something like $400... WTH? I can buy a butt kicking gaming 1 KW PSU for about $100... But that form factor wouldn't fit into the case. Not to mention would be completely more power than the board would need (it only had like 90 freakin' watts!) The only saving grace - this box had normal Phillips type screws. None of the funky Torx or other oddball specialty bits that some makers use to screw with you (pun intended)...

 

Things are a bit simpler now - no more PATA cables - but still, it's a royal PITA to work inside some of these cases.

 

My recommendation - Fine.. Skip the monster full tower. Those are so... 1999 anyhow. Stick with a standard desktop case with a decent PSU - preferably a modular one so you only need to plug in the power leads you actually NEED, and not have a bunch of extra dangling wires. Spending a bit extra on a quality PSU will save you a TON of grief in the future. I bought one good one a while back - and knock on wood, it still works just fine. Meanwhile, another box I replaced one at about the same time - and used a cheaper PSU - and it doesn't really want to fire up any longer.

 

Oh.. and here's a good tip for PSUs - they're worth their weight in gold. Literally. The heavier the PSU, the more copper went into making it and consequently, works closer to the rated spec than those that aren't quite as heavy.

 

IMO, you're better off finding yourself a good, standard, medium tower case and popping in a good, aftermarket PSU, followed by the motherboard/CPU/RAM/GPU you want. You will have more options as far as motherboards go that way too..

 

Oh.. One more thing - Chattius said something that reminded me...

 

Watts "eaten" to borrow his phrase - means HEAT! Heat + Electronics = DEATH of Electronics.

 

A bigger case allows you to put more fans onto a case, thus increasing ventilation.

 

Having a small, cramped case means the air tends to have to go around more obstacles - thus slowing and possibly stopping the flow of air.

Edited by wolfie2kX
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Just remembered a test of a mini-itx in a recent german computer magazine.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=419

Even the idea of the thing above look real nice, the case is too small for quad core cooling.

My wife has such a small thing (other tha nabove) attached to the monitor-back in the room she practices medicine. But I did only low power notebook stuff in.

 

My brother tested a barebone from Shuttle for the Haswell and says the case is big enough to work and small enough to hide.

http://www.itproportal.com/2013/07/29/shuttle-sh87r6-preview-potent-haswell-mini-pc/

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  • Something compact (mini itx or micro atx?)
  • 4gen intel i5+
  • DDR 3 2+ slots
  • pci e x16 slot for video card
  • pci slot for wifi adapter
  • USB 3.0
  • 5.1 audio inputs
  • option to upgrade parts
  • doesn't need to be portable
  • I already have SSD & IDE drives
  • I don't use CD/DVD drives
  • I use two monitors

Ok, so ITX build is completely out of the picture based on your requirements. The max number of RAM slots right now is 2, and the max number of PCI slots is 1, so you would be able to have the graphics card and not the wifi card. I built a ITX build for a friend this summer, but he decided to go with a usb wireless dongle instead of the PCI card, so I guess that could be something to look at.

 

So now we're down to Micro-ATX boards, of which I highly recommend grabbing an ASUS or AsRock one for, as both companies are pretty reliable with the newer boards. I'm not sure what the budget is here so I won't list specific parts :) If you plan on doing video editing, make sure to grab the i7, but stick with the i5 if all you're going to do is some photo work + games. Actually I notice you're going to be using Blender, so perhaps the i7 would be a worthy investment.

 

Only thing on the list I saw missing would be a power supply and CPU cooler, but I assume you already have those all set from your other build. Honestly, the ITX and Micro-ATX boards are becoming more and more similar in functionality to regular ATX it's scary! You should have no trouble working inside the case, and it's loads of fun to put together a smaller build. Good luck! :D

 

 

Edit: To make two personal recommendations that I have had experience with, the new Corsair Obsidian series Micro-ATX case is an excellent choice if you'd prefer to go with a more standard looking case to build in. Clean, sleek, looks quite classy and is more similar to a mid-tower ATX than the next one. Also, there is another model available for an extra $10 with a clear side panel :o

 

Obsidian Micro-ATX: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811139020

 

The other is the Silverstone Temjin from 2011. It has a very unique and inovative design, in that your PSU will be sitting in the roof of the case, and your mobo is upside down and reversed as opposed to standard placement. This one is smaller by 2 inches in every direction, making it more compact.

 

Temjin: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163182

Edited by Ryanrocker
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Wow, great responses guys. I wasn't expecting so much detail!

Very good point about the significance of the CPU with regrads to CUDA et al chattius. Something I should heave mentioned is how my pc is being used when I'm "producing". This is what I would like my system to handle smoothly all running at the same time:

Photoshop & Illustrator
blender 3d
Firefox about 12 tabs some with videos playing, Chrome 2 or 3 tabs and IE 1 or 2 tabs
Windows Live Mail
Filezilla
wamp
Notepad++
Sometimes a game like guild wars or diablo
windows media player to listen to music while I work


Your mention of CUDA reminds me of a card I wanted a long time ago. A FirePro. Production geared video processing for 3D animation etc. The negative on those cards "was" that they didn't run games well but I just read an article that suggests otherwise... How Well Do Workstation Graphics Cards Play Games? Maybe it's time to build a real workstation. :)

 

wolfie, those stories are very telling. Ah the blue smoke. Thankfully I never saw it first hand. Modular PSU. Check! I really want that. I'm so tired of the extra wires. I read earlier that I can save a few bucks by buying a semi modular PSU which will probably suffice. Gonna check that out at my local parts store. I'll probably be shopping at Microbytes downtown but for sure I'll buy online if I find something cheap (after shipping charges). Nice tip on choosing a heavy PSU. :D

 

Not quite out of the picture yet Ryan! Can you tell I have me mind set? lol. When I write about the case I want later in this post you'll understand why. You mention i5 and i7 and I'm honestly uncertain as to how to choose them. I realize that i7 is typical the greater of the two but it will probably come down to price/quality comparison. Lot's of reading to do on that end! Cooling I've never used beyond fans and I never OC. OCing freaks me out.

 

So! I really should have mentioned this at the start since it will likely change a lot of what you guys had concerns about. This is the case I want. I noticed it last year some time while doing a random image search for pc case ideas. Of all of them, this one really popped out. After reading it was made for itx I started considering an itx build and is the reason for my whole approach here. So from this case it seems feasable to do what I'm wanting. I think...

Bitfenix Prodigy

Pictures

New Bitfenix Prodigy Gaming Build

At my local parts store Microbytes

 

P.s.

Budget is flexible and I think I would like to buy a tablet to use as a touchscreen controller for my workstation. Basically mirror my desktop to the tablet to speed up certain tasks.

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By the GODS! It looks like a squished Mac case...!

 

OK. I admit that it's kind of cute.. But I'd still rather have a standard case with standard ATX/mini ATX motherboard.

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No way, no way, no way, no way! :D This is my all time favorite ITX case, and I've been talking about doing a mobile gaming rig with it for a few years now. I recommend a CPU cooler just for the longevity of your hardware, even if you don't OC. The stock coolers that come with the processors can be a little shaky, and for $30 I enjoy the peace of mind :)

 

Ninja Edit: At competex this year, they released news of the same case but for micro-ATX. Should be coming out sometime this year I believe.

Edited by Ryanrocker
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This is the case I've had now for the last 3 generations on my system. In other words, The current board/chip in this case is the 3rd one... Sadly, they don't make them any more - but they may be still available on ebay or some such.

 

post-14586-0-95106400-1376723503.jpg

 

The really nice thing about this case - the entire case is ventilated.

 

The top, sides and front all have numerous small holes drilled into the various panels and a fine mesh sits behind it. The purpose of this is to get warm air moving out freely and letting cooler air in.

 

It also has a funnel on the side panel to expedite outside air moving into and hitting the CPU fan.

 

It's also all metal - no cheap plastic - so nothing's broken on it. It sits under my desk, out of direct sight.

 

I've got 5 hard drives plugged in at the moment plus 1 DVD burner and 2 printers.

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All metal... Here a mainboard has to be In kinda a faraday cage. Electromagnetic waves emitted from the computer have tobe below a certain value, that kinda forbids plastic cages.

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All metal... Here a mainboard has to be In kinda a faraday cage. Electromagnetic waves emitted from the computer have tobe below a certain value, that kinda forbids plastic cages.

 

Yeah.. But you'd be surprised how much plastic goes into most modern cases that is outside of the inner metal structure.

 

Beyond the typical covers you find for bays that have an opening, many cases have a façade - especially around the front - that can have additional doors, fancy switches, lights, and all manner of funky art work... Here's one that's made to look kind of like the Battlestar Galactica (new version) from the TV show of the same name...

 

post-14586-0-69376500-1376737397_thumb.jpg

 

There's a LOT of plastic on top of that metal skin. Here's a stock offering from Alienware...

 

post-14586-0-40299600-1376737492.jpg

 

Once again, a LOT of plastic going into the case. The fins on the bottom - plastic, the front panel covering the drives and such - plastic - and hinged.

 

And here's one that's completely different - it's mostly ALL plastic - one that kind of looks like a fish tank...

 

post-14586-0-13165700-1376737851_thumb.png

 

Granted, the 1st and 3rd pictures aren't your typical PC cases - but even most of your typical beige (which are now typically black) PC cases have plenty of plastic in front... The 2nd case - as I said - is or was a typical case by Alienware.

 

The case I have has little plastic in front - except for the 3 unused external bays and the buttons for Power and Reset. The front of the DVD burner, is also, of course, plastic.

 

Here's an idea of what I mean - the main portion of the PC's case is visible in this picture. The plastic portion (all black) is also visible on the right. The metal portion ends right about where the plastic begins.

 

post-14586-0-61738400-1376738804_thumb.jpg

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I haven't read that much about the power supply so thought I'd add my 2 cents. In all the systems I design for my work we always never go above 75% average load. Typically we like to be around 50-60% for a couple reasons.

 

1) peak power usage....if you're already at 80-90% for average load, peak power (some cpu intensive program) will come close to max power. Max power output puts a huge strain on the power supply and quicken the deterioration of components due to heat stress.

 

2) Most power supplies these days are 80% + effective, meaning 20% of wattage is lost to heat. And are most effective when supplying 40-80% of rated wattage/power

 

3) Having power draw at 50% leaves you plenty of room for future upgrades

 

I liken it to this analogy. You have a car that can go 100 MPH. If you go 100 every time all the time, more than likely you'll experience failures/issues much much sooner than if you were going 50MPH instead.

 

There's also a healthy debate on single vs. multi-rail and it really depends on your components and what software/programs you want to run.

 

A couple decent links...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2025425/how-to-pick-the-best-pc-power-supply.html

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/Feature/281741,how-to-choose-the-correct-power-supply.aspx

Well written, clear and detailed

Heckuva post Knuckles!

im gonna hug ya

:hugs:

 

gogo

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That case would have be illegal 20 years ago. There was a law that all computers at a working place had to be in an eye friendly beige colour: the mac, the amiga, the commodore c64, the IBM PC, ...

 

I am still a fan of nature colours. Call me a dinosaur.

 

If your house is wooden patchwork inside and outside, a shining blackcase disturbs the harmony I need for my creativity ;)

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That case would have be illegal 20 years ago. There was a law that all computers at a working place had to be in an eye friendly beige colour: the mac, the amiga, the commodore c64, the IBM PC, ...

 

I am still a fan of nature colours. Call me a dinosaur.

 

If your house is wooden patchwork inside and outside, a shining blackcase disturbs the harmony I need for my creativity ;)

 

Illegal..? Beige was the LAW? :eek::cstars:

 

You'd be surprised how well basic black works - it hides a PC very well when you put it in a dark corner.

 

I'll grant you that most of the cases I posted weren't meant for anyone with a real sense of taste. That screaming neon split pea soup colored Alienware case IS quite painful to look at. The point was - yes, cases have to have an element of EM suppression, but they don't have to be utterly devoid of personal expression.

 

Personally, I would rather not have any of the top 3 cases posted. My point - plastic is quite common in cases - it's lighter than an all metal construct and you don't need to be a champion Bulgarian weight lifter to move them about. :D

 

 

Here's an idea of what I mean - the main portion of the PC's case is visible in this picture. The plastic portion (all black) is also visible on the right. The metal portion ends right about where the plastic begins.

 

attachicon.gifSilent_PC-Antec_P180.jpg

That case could use some cable management :'(

 

Um.. It's nothing to cry over...! In fact, it doesn't look all that bad, really - Granted it's not quite as clean and sanitized as it could be. It doesn't even have a modular PSU..

 

I have seen worse. MUCH worse..

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  • 3 weeks later...

Very informative info about the PSU Knuckles. That will definitely impact how I choose my new PSU.

 

Gueeeess what I just ordered! :drool: I couldn't pass this up. memoryexpress is selling this at about $20+ less than every other location I could find in Canada. It'll be on sale until the end of the month. Next on my research/shopping list will be the mobo. Defintely will have to be a 4th gen(Haswell) compatable board.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39721

prodigy_2.jpg

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I am calculating a Haswell. Currently I am at 15Watt (hoping to reach 12) and only a CPU-fan at maximum 600 rpm. Planed main use is as a near 24/7 machine. Typing, music listening (classic, so fan noise is unacceptable) , hobby of daughter (controlling a knitting machine who will run at night), hobby of me (milling machine to create oldtimer tractor parts, or engine parts for the bikes of my father in low) ... all can be done at low power. Compared to a game machine we could save 100-200 Euro a year in power costs.

Not using the Highend chips but 2 steps smaller, using a SSD-disc, onboard graphic, ...

And by adding a graphic card gaming is possible, then around 130Watt design power.

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  • 1 month later...

I had a bit of searching: I will buy one with a graphic card which can be switched on on demand and if not needed the mainboard one will do the minor graphic work. So having the number cruncher (graphic card) only active if maths are needed: Image processing and games.

While searching for the one PC which perfectly fits: I bought 5 (better prices) Raspberries for controlling. 2 are for a collegue and I have still 3.

So these cheap computers stay in place. One is permanently at my wood working machine, another is currently tested to play with LEGO mindcraft elements for a school project ;)

I am more and more the opinion that I should have kept all 5: my collegue uses one of his ones as a fully programmable internet radio receiver.

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I did bhj, yup! It's soooo nice. :D My present case is similar to yours. Big and bulky, haha. I've got the old gamer style extra large case with the window in the side and lots of blinking leds. I think I'm over that now and just want something compact, quiet but still powerful.

 

Sounds quite efficient chattius!

 

As it is I only have my case. I decided to try and build a on sale parts only mini-atx just for fun and see just how cost effecient I can be. I have my Safari browser set up purely for pc shopping. I don't use Safari for anything else. It's set up so that as soon as it starts up it automatically loads my top ten pc shopping stores on their featured products and specials pages. I check every so often to see if a part I want is on sale. That's how I got my Bitfenix Prodigy. :drool:

 

Time to go check my on sale pages!

 

What I think I will be buying for now is:

Silverstone Strider Essential 700W Power Supply $80

i7-4770K Processor 3.50GHz w/ 8MB Cache $350

MAXIMUS VI IMPACT Motherboard $240

DDR3 Memory 2x8GB 1600 MHz $160

Video Card - mid range of whatever is available when I buy my last part $250+

Video card would ideally be good at 3D rendering apps as well as gaming...

 

Total including tax = $1242

 

Cheaper alternative with intent to add another 8GB stick of ram, upgrade video card and upgrade CPU to an i7 in the new year:

Silverstone Strider Essential 700W Power Supply $80

i5-4670K Processor, 3.40GHz w/ 6MB Cache $250

MAXIMUS VI IMPACT Motherboard $240

DDR3 Memory 1x8GB 1600 MHz $80

Video Card - Keep using my present video card

 

Total including tax = $747

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