Help Building a Regeneration Page on the Wiki

[Flix 5,116]

It's an odd thing...but there's no page for Regeneration on the Wiki. There are, however, chunks of info on various pages. It's a concept that is both basic and complex. I've seen enough questions off and on about "where is this info on the Wiki?" Well, my aim is to make a proper page for this concept. It won't be a huge project, but it will be much easier with some input from others. My main question is: should I make a new page or use an existing one (see below for possible existing pages)?

 

Here are the relevant topics that already exist on the Wiki:

 

*Combat Arts - contains most of the basic info about Regeneration

 

Item Modifiers

*Regeneration Time - this page was made for the blue/yellow/gold item modifier that reduces regen time. I think this is the prime candidate to turn into the Regeneration page. Like other Item Modifier pages, it can have information about the concept at the top, and a section for "Availability as Item Modifier" section below.

*Regeneration Penalty - the white modifier that appears on all pieces of equipment. Another possibility for the "Regeneration" page.

*Regeneration per Hit

*Regeneration Penalty from Buffs

 

Related Concepts

*Expert Touch

*Combos

*Runes

*Highest Combat Art Level Without Penalty

*Buffs

*Concentration Potion

 

Attributes and Skills

*Stamina

*Concentration

*Combat Discipline

*Aspect Focus

 

These are the main topics that contain info on Regeneration. Please chime in if you can think of any more.

There are of course dozens of other pages that mention the term "Regeneration" that will need links added to whatever page we come up with as "the page" for Regeneration.

 

If I were to make a new page, I would just call it "Regeneration" and I would arrange it somewhat like the "Damage" page, with a list of all the major concepts, each with a short description and a link that could branch off into the appropriate topic.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Flix

[gogoblender 3,068]

U hit it with the prime candidate you noted, regeneration time.

Most of the game's mechanics and build concepts are all coming from item modifers or skills or attributes. The item modifier you noted, regeneration time, is probably best suited, as it's a good catch all, and will instantly connect to the item mod across all items via alread in place links. I think I actually did something like you're considering now, when I was just lately working on the item modifiers table.

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Defensive_Skills">http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Defensive_Skills, for example, comes first as item modifier, but can also be seen, if we step backwards, as a "grouping" of skills.

I went to the bottom of defensive skills page, and added another sub title:

 

Function of Defensive Skills +X as Item Modifier

 

This way, the different subtitle on page offer further resolution to the words "defensive skills"

 

Same can be done for regeneration time as you have noted

 

 

gogo

[Flix 5,116]

Ah, good, my gut instinct was right.

 

Yep, I've seen that on Defensive Skills and elsewhere, and I'm a really big fan of having all the info on the same page rather than having one page for the info and a separate page just for the item modifier.

 

Later on down the road, keeping this approach in mind, there may be a few modifier pages that are redundant and would be better off being moved onto the main page for that particular concept. I'll keep that in mind. But for now, I'm filling in the Regeneration Time page!

[gogoblender 3,068]

I remmber the grouping of skills that the game does being emulated in some item modifiers. If they both have the exact same name, they could be good candidates for this type of treatment

 

 

gogo

[Flix 5,116]

Well, that actually took a lot less time than I thought it would:

 

Regeneration Time

 

Tried to be brief but inclusive of all the many topics this concept touches upon.

 

The main thing it needs now is info on availability as item modifier, which I'll get to later. In fact, I plan to eventually fill out availability sections for ALL modifiers that are missing them, just have to do some prep work first.

 

As a side effect I also filled in the Cooldown page, which was a red link on some combat arts pages.

[gogoblender 3,068]

Love the cool down pagem, it's got to be one of the most interesting yet hard to find listings around.

I know all the Combat Arts that use it would be a useful resource as addition to that page as well

and in fact, the grouping of Combat Arts with cool downs even has a place on Combat Arts page as well perhaps as a link to what's already there as useful groupings:

 

Combat Art Types

• Weapon Damage Based Combat Arts
• Spell Damage Based Combat Arts
• Hybrid Damage Based Combat Arts
• Area of Effect (Area of Effect)
• Multi Hit
• Damage over Time (DoT)
• Healing

IN fact, one day, if it happens, there could even be more groupings to add... combat arts with higher percentages of a single element... mono elemental Combat ARts... now how useful could that be for a build in the appropriate region huh^^

 

 

 

gogo

[Flix 5,116]

I agree, in fact I was thinking that an appropriate place for Elemental Combat Arts might be on the Element pages themselves. For example, at the bottom of the Fire page, could be a table or list with the Combat Arts that do all or primarily fire damage. In fact I made a section for such a thing on each element's page, just haven't gotten around to filling them in. I already did a similar thing with the Damage over Time pages, for example see the page for Damage over Time:Fire.

 

And yeah, definitely planning to list all the Combat Arts with Cooldowns and add much more info to that page. For now, it was just some basic info to 'create' the page.

[gogoblender 3,068]

Doing a lot of catching up here, and ayup, agree with the inclusion of the elemental combat arts grouping having a place on the elements page, and having a link to the section at bottom fo combat arts where the groupings are listed would also help readers get into a mode of looking for CA's by groups too.

 

 

gogo

[mibbs 29]

There is a perfect russian-language topic about RegTime, I hope, it will translate sometimes.
Now you can translate it with google-translator for example.
Итак, итоговое время восстановления умений вычисляется по формуле:
RegTime = cooldown + (cost_base+n*cost_level+m*cost_level/2) / 100 * Stamina_mod * Buff_recuirements_coeff * Buff_bonus * Skills_coeff * Armor_coeff * Item_modifiers * Combo_modifier
Где:
n - количество съеденных рун: минимум - 1, максимум - 200.
m - общее количество + ко всем скиллам с экипировки (дают половинный штраф ко времени восстановления)
Stamina_mod - модификатор выносливости, всегда меньше 1:
Пунктов выносливости - модификатор
25 - 1
75 - 0,75
125 - 0,5
225 - 0,33
325 - 0,25
425 - 0,2
725 - 0,125
925 - 0,1
По вышеназванной последовательности можно судить, что для падения времени отката вдвое требуется 125 пунктов выносливости (+100 к базовому значению). Для падения еще в 2 раза - 325 пунктов (+200), еще вдвое - 725 пунктов (+400), еще вдвое - 1525 пунктов (+800)...
Таким образом, каждое последующее очко в выносливости дает меньше отдачи, чем предыдущее. Что впрочем можно сказать и про все остальные атрибуты персонажа.
Buff_recuirements_coeff - модификатор штрафа за усиления, всегда больше 1.
Buff_recuirements_coeff = (1 + regeneration time +x%_1stBuff + regeneration time +x%_2ndBuff + regeneration time +x%_3rdBuff)
На штраф усиления влияют следующие модификаторы:
1) "Средоточие" профильной школы (к которой принадлежит усиление),
2) Навык "концентрация",
3) Выносливость (так же, как и на время отката CA - см. выше),
4) Параметр "Штраф за усиления -х%". Не складывается сам с собой, а перемножается по особой формуле, сумма таким образом стремится к -100%, но никогда ее не достигнет.
5) соответствующие модификации СА.
- Усиление ВЭ "великое ободрение" не имеет подобного штрафа.
Buff_bonus - снижение времени восстановления при активированном усилении или временном баффе, всегда равен или меньше 1.
Buff_bonus = (1 - regeneration time -x%_1)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_2)*...*(1 - regeneration time -x%_n)
- Врожденное свойство усиления (например "великое ободрение" ВЭ),
- Модификации усиления.
- Боевые умения, дающие рост характеристик персонажа на короткое время.
Skills_coeff - модификатор изученных навыков: всегда равен или меньше 1.
Skills_coeff = (1 - regeneration time -x%_concentration)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_focus)
На модификатор влияют следующие навыки:
- Концентрация,
- "Средоточие" профильной школы.
Armor_coeff - модификатор штрафов брони, 0 < Armor_coeff < 2.
Armor_coeff = (1 + regeneration time x%_1)*(1 + regeneration time x%_2)*...*(1 + regeneration time x%_n)
Каждый элемент брони имеет базовый штраф к времени восстановления, который может быть снижен изучением профильного навыка (ношение доспехов), а также может быть ниже нуля (отрицательный штраф снижает время восстановления).
Штраф к времени восстановления на каждом элементе брони применяется как независимый множитель (модификатор) к итоговому времени восстановления; несколько модификаторов не складываются, а применяются отдельно: 5 элементов доспеха, каждый с -20% штрафом, таким образом не дадут в сумме -100% времени восстановления, а только 100*0,8*0,8*0,8*0,8*0,8 = -66% к времени восстановления CA.
Armor_coeff > 1, когда штраф за доспехи > 0,
Armor_coeff < 1, когда штраф за доспехи < 0.
Item_modifiers - модификатор бонусов экипировки: всегда равен или меньше 1.
Item_modifiers = (1 - regeneration time -x%_1)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_2)*...*(1 - regeneration time -x%_n)
Несколько параметров "regeneration time -x%" не складываются между собой, а перемножается по особой формуле, сумма таким образом стремится к -100%, но никогда ее не достигнет.
Combo_modifier - если взят навык "воинская дисциплина" и CA используется в комбо, всегда меньше 1.
Пунктов (hard points) в навыке - модификатор
0 - 1
1-75 - 0,9
75 и выше - 0,8
++++
"шанс уменьшить время восстановления вдвое: х%", складывается сам с собой, 100% в сумме дадут - 50% времени восстановления умений, выше 100% собирать нет смысла.

Edited February 21, 2014 by mibbs

[Flix 5,116]

Thanks, specific formulas will be good to have. Maybe we can do something with that info in the future.

[Silver_fox 397]

If anybody is interested, the english translation of the russian text two posts above goes as following:

 

Regeneration Time for all Combat Arts can be calculated using the following formula:
RegTime = cooldown + (cost_base+n*cost_level+m*cost_level/2) / 100 * Stamina_mod * Buff_recuirements_coeff * Buff_bonus * Skills_coeff * Armor_coeff * Item_modifiers * Combo_modifier * Expert_touch * Alchemy_mod

 

The variables in this formula are:

cost_base & cost_level - regeneration time constants whose values are set in spells.txt. They define the original regeneration time for each CA and regeneration penalty for each memorized rune. The values for these constants are set in frames (100 frames equals 1 second).

 

n - a number of memorized runes: its minimum value is 1, maximum is 200

 

m - a number of CA levels added by equipment (these additional levels give only half the penaly to regeneration time)

 

Stamina_mod - a modifier that depends on Stamina attribute. Its value never exceeds 1:

 

Points in Stamina | Stamina_mod
_______________________________
25 | 1
75 | 0,75
125 | 0,5
225 | 0,33
325 | 0,25
425 | 0,2
725 | 0,125
925 | 0,1

 

Studying this sequence we can determine that in order to halve the regeneration time a character should have 125 Stamina points (+99-100 to starting value). Then, to halve the regeneration time again a character needs 325 points (+200 to previous value), the next time it would be 725 points (+400), the next time - 1525 (+800) and so on.
This sequence means that every next point invested in Stamina has less effect on regeneration time than the previous one. Though the same can be said about all the attributes.

 

Buff_recuirements_coeff - a multiplier defined by Regeneration Penalty from Buffs (also know as Buff upkeep cost). Also includes penalties for riding Special Mounts. It usually exceeds 1 (the only exception is the High Elf's Grand Ingivoration that does not have a penalty).

Buff_recuirements_coeff = (1 + regeneration time +x%_1stBuff + regeneration time +x%_2ndBuff + regeneration time +x%_3rdBuff +x%_SpecialMount)

It can be lowered by modifiers that affect Regeneration Penalty from Buffs:
* Appropriate Aspect Focus (of the same aspect as the buff)
* Concentration Skill
* Stamina (its effect on Regeneration Penalty from Buffs is the same as on Regeneration Time and is described above)
* A "Regeneration Penalty from Buffs -X%" Item Modifier. Bonuses granted by different items do not simply sum up, but are calculated by special formula. The result can be nearing -100% but would never reach this value.
* Appropriate CA modifications

* Penalties for riding a Special Mount can be reduced by the Riding Skill.

 

Buff_bonus - a regeneration time reduction granted by active buffs, Special Mounts or temporary effects from CAs. It is less or equal than 1.
Buff_bonus = (1 - regeneration time -x%_1)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_2)*...*(1 - regeneration time -x%_n)
It is affected by:
* Innate property of a buff (for example, Grand Ingivoration)
* Appropriate CA modifications
* CAs that increase chacracter's attributes for a short period of time

* An Aspect Special Mount grants the rider regeneration time bonus for all CAs of respective aspect.

 

Skills_coeff - a multiplier that depends on the skills learned. It is less or equal than 1.
Skills_coeff = (1 - regeneration time -x%_concentration)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_focus)
It is affected by the following skills:
* Concentration
* Appropriate Aspect Focus (of the same aspect as CA)

 

Armor_coeff - a multiplier that depends on regeneration penalty from Armor, 0 < Armor_coeff < 2.
Armor_coeff = (1 + regeneration time x%_1)*(1 + regeneration time x%_2)*...*(1 + regeneration time x%_n)
Each piece of Armor has an innate penalty to the regeneration time, that can be lowered by the Armor Lore skill. This penalty can be negative, which means that a piece of equipment makes CAs regenerate faster.
A penalty value from each piece of equipment is applied as independent multiplier to the resulting regeneration time value; several multipliers do not sum up, but applied in layers: 5 eqiupment pieces with -20% penalty each would not give a character -100% regeneration time, but only 100*0,8*0,8*0,8*0,8*0,8 = -66%.
Armor_coeff exceeds 1, when total regeneration penalty from armor exceeds 0,
Armor_coeff is less than 1, regeneration penalty from armor is negative.

 

Item_modifiers - a multiplier defined by "Regeneration Time -X%" modifiers found on various pieces of equipment. It is less or equal than 1.
Item_modifiers = (1 - regeneration time -x%_1)*(1 - regeneration time -x%_2)*...*(1 - regeneration time -x%_n)
Various "Regeneration Time -X%" bonuses granted by different items do not simply sum up, but are calculated by special formula. The result can be nearing -100% but would never reach this value.

 

Combo_modifier - if a character has the Combat Discipline skill and a CA is used in a combo, this multiplier is always less than 1.

Hard points in Combat Discipline | Combo_modifier
_________________________________________________
0 | 1
1-75 | 0,9
75 and more | 0,8

 

Expert_touch - if a character was created with Expert Touch option turned on, this multiplier's value is set to 0.66, otherwise the value equals 1.

Alchemy_mod - This multiplier is always less or equal than 1. Its original value is 1, if a character uses Concentration Potions or Trophies the value becomes less for the duration of the potion effect. Multiplier's particular value depends on a type and effectiveness of a potion or trophy used.

 

"Chance to halve regeneration time +X%" bonuses sum up, having 100% grants a permanent bonus of -50% regeneration time. Equipping more than 100% of this chance does not have any effect.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Silver_fox

[Silver_fox 397]

Edited the text to incorporate some changes and additions that Mibbs wanted to make. I wonder if this text should go to a special section on the Regen page or to a special page in the giude section that is linked to the main page for regen time. What do you think?

[Flix 5,116]

It could be split up to go into the individual sections on the regen page with a little work, but it should probably be kept together as it is basically an extended explanation of a single formula. That being the case, I'd make it a linked guide.