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Sacred 2 Damage formulas


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There's some interesting stuff here, some of it is news to me (I think it says that Damage Mitigation affects DoT?). I worked on all the Damage-related pages on the Wiki a little while back and there's some good info for several pages here. At the very least it would make a good guide for the Player Guides section - if the English could be cleaned up a little bit?

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Damage over time can happen in 3 ways:

 

You get burning/poisoned by an attack. Damage lore works on this. Damage mitigation works only on the hit causing the secondary effect.

 

You are hit by an attack which does damage ticks, like the snowstorm of the elf. Every x seconds it is checked if you are still in the damage zone. If you are hit by a damage tick you may get secondary effects. The attack is stacking, you can suffer from more than one snowstorm. Damage mitigation works on these.

 

You get hit by a combat art which does a single hit which starts damage over time effect (frostball of the elf). This damage won't be boosted by damage lore. Damage mitigation is known to work on the first damage done on hit, different answers found on the DoT of the attack.

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Dear Chattius, there are parameters: direct damage, damage over time.

In the game's discription on spells.txt we can see two different types of damage:

mgr.defineSpell( "he_in_feuerball",
eiStateName = "cSpellCastProjectile"
entry2 = {"et_spelldamage_fire", 700, 350, 0, 133 },
entry3 = {"et_spelldamage_physical", 350, 175, 0, 133 }
mgr.defineSpell( "he_st_frostschlag",
eiStateName = "cSpellCast"
entry1 = {"et_dotdamage_ice", 1050, 525, 0, 42 },
entry4 = {"et_spelldamage_ice", 210, 105, 0, 133 }
mgr.defineSpell( "he_st_schneesturm", {
eiStateName = "cSpellCast"
entry2 = {"et_spelldamage_ice", 84, 42, 0, 133 },
entry3 = {"et_hits_persec", 500, 3, 0, 4 },
entry5 = {"et_spelldamage_physical", 210, 105, 0, 133 }
Snowstorm causes direct damage, not DOT
Damage mitigation works
always, without exception. only lifeleech ignores
+++ duration of detrimental effects is 450 ticks (4,5 sec) in the game bleeding\poison\burning cause damage:
200-200-200-200-100
Root is detrimental effect too, 75+ hard points on "magic resistance", "detrimental magical effects -x%" protect.
Stun can be blocked\reflected by special parameters "reflect: stun", "block: stun", but the duration of stun can not be redused by anything, stun is NOT detrimental magical effect.
Edited by mibbs
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I hope, silverfox help me with the translation, I will make up for my research in the field of game mechanics, in particular'll add information about penalties for overeating runes, the schedule of dependence of damage from intelligence (or describe in words) and others

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Thank you for helping identify which effects are classified as Detrimental Magic Effects mibbs! I was never sure. I did a lot of work on these damage mechanics on the wiki recently and I found some things to be very tricky. There were many things I felt needed more testing.

 

 

You get hit by a combat art which does a single hit which starts damage over time effect (frostball of the elf). This damage won't be boosted by damage lore. Damage mitigation is known to work on the first damage done on hit, different answers found on the DoT of the attack.

 

I already know the rest of what you posted, what I wasn't I wasn't sure about was this last part. This is what I meant by "Damage over Time." This is "true" DoT. Those cases in spells.txt where the damage is defined as "dotdamage_poison" for example.

 

It's actually incorrect from a mechanical standpoint to group them together with other spells that do flat damage periodically over time, even though they seem to be the same in-game.

 

 

 

Damage mitigation works

always, without exception. only lifeleech ignores

 

What about against Eternal Fire and Viperish Disease? Those aren't defined in spells.txt as any kind of flat spell damage or DoT damage. They are "et_plague_const_fire" and et_plague_poison" respectively. I'd be interested to know what protects against these two skills? Armor? Damage over Time -X%? Damage Mitigation?

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By the way, I checked the wiki page for Damage Mitigation and it specifically insists that mitigation has no effect on real DoT (DoT -% modifier applies insted). However, from what Mibbs tested it appears to actually affect DoT and layer with DoT -% modifier. I wonder if it has to do with the version of the game. That wiki page was made back in the time of original Fallen Angel and as I remember they changed a bit of mechanics with Ice&Blood. At least some builds that were effectively invincible in FA needed additional tweaking with the release of I&B. I guess, we need to look into it and make appropriate changes to the mitigation page.

Edited by Silver_fox
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Yeah, that bit about DoT -X% being the only protection is actually a recent addition, by me in fact. That whole Damage Mitigation page and many other pages related to Damage/Armor got some major overhauls and content upgrades a few months ago from me. So there are a few more pages (main and individual DoT pages, armor page) that may need to be corrected because I put similar info about DoT protection on them. I think, this may be an instance where I was just plain wrong (don't worry, I'm not in the habit of it just plastering any info I please onto pages). I'm not sure why now, but I was certain that DoT bypassed Armor and Damage Mitigation (I wanna quote Gogo on that one, not sure now).

Edited by Flix
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Armor? Damage over Time -X%? Damage Mitigation?

Just try to attack poison elemental with Viperish Disease or fire elementals wits Eternal Fire (without 75+ ancient magic of cause). Than see: if theese skills cause damage to poison\fire immune creatures, DM and DOT -x% are useless against these skills.

Edited by mibbs
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So it turns out that DoT is not reduced by armor but it IS reduced by damage mitigation. I chose the best source of DoT I could think of, Weaving Spiders in the SE Swamp, and let them spit on me. No amount of Poison armor made a difference in the damage of their poison spit, but Damage Mitigation: Poison DID reduce it. So I was half right.

 

This makes Damage Mitigation probably the most overpowered modifier considering how it can be stacked to 100%. Nothing can hurt you with those values except for Life Leech attacks.

 

I still haven't tested Viperish Disease and Eternal Fire vs. Poison/Fire Armor. Planning to later today. It would really be best to test them against another player wearing certain modifiers, but I guess monsters will have to do.

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I wasn't sure what Direct Damage was. When I made that page I put that definition there as placeholder, intending to come back to it that same day, but I couldn't figure out what exactly was going on, only that the damage boost was only affecting weapon damage and didn't affect Spell-Based Combat Arts. Given that I now have the bonus list Czevak made, what I intended to do was check the bonus ID in blueprint.txt and see what the description was. Then I sort of lost track of it because so many other item modifier pages needed work (I swear I'm not usually sloppy).

 

Edit: Getting all the item modifiers clearly defined and filled out with the items, skills and CA's that cause them is my current project. It's kind of stalled right now as I'm elbow-deep in modding projects now, but any insights or corrections you have are more than welcome. That damage guide Mibbs has written has some great content that I'm glad to see going up.

Edited by Flix
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Don't worry, Flix, I would have never called you sloppy - you are doing as much as you can, and that's a great lot. Besides, I know how you feel, as I was (and still am) feeling the same - trying to cover as many of the wiki's weak points as possible, doing a bit of everything everywhere and having so many ongoing projects it's impossible to pay equal attention to them all at the same time.

 

It's just that there was talk about ignoring the armor, and I remembered this modifier and started to wonder if it works as intended or should be added to the game's many glitches. If you don't know for sure - neither do I, nor the others, probably (it's not the easiest modifier to get so I don't know how many players have great experience of playtesting it). Looking it up in the scripts is a good idea, but doesn't completely eliminate the necessity of testing in-game ('Faster increase of Survival Bonus' looked OK in the scripts, but never worked properly).

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I translated this guide from an original russian version that Mibbs had sent me. Preliminary wiki page for it can be seen here:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/User:Silver_fox

Meanwhile, Mibbs sent me some more facts he would like to see added to the guide. I'm planning to translate these bits toworrow.

 

I wonder if you can take a look at the page and determine where exactly on the wiki it belongs. It is a useful collection of many facts related to damage dealing, so I guess we are bringing it to the wiki, question is - to which section of the wiki?

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Great job!

 

Well on one hand it could all be kept together as a Player Contributed Guide, with a 'see also' link added on some relevant pages.

 

On the other hand, we could break it up into pieces and put the info on applicable pages. The Damage page in particular already has a section for formulae, as does the Armor page.

 

Back in October, when I tackled Damage/Armor, I made a post that tried to list and categorize all the damage-related pages on the Wiki. You can take a look at it here. It may be of some help when trying to decide what info could go where.

Edited by Flix
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That's exactly what I can't decide about this article. Its main value is in having all important things you need to know to be effective with your spells wrapped neatly and stored in one place. Some bits of this information are not new, they can be found on the wiki, but it is all spread so thin over so many pages you need to read the entirety of the site to learn it. Most readers can wander around the wiki for hours without running into details on how DoT works or what Spell Intensity really is. They can also easily ignore some pages just because they don't know where to look for useful information or which articles can be relevant for them (like many people tend to overlook the DoT page because the base concept is well known and seen in many other games so they feel they already know it). With such guide they can read it, click on context links for details, and feel quite competent.

 

On other hand, it doesn't feel right to have a Player contributed guide talking of essential mechanics, with some details that are lacking from the wiki proper. So I just don't know how to treat it.

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What can be done is that on a page within Wiki Cannon that mentions the relevant mechanics discussion at the bottom of the page, where links to other suggested reading are, can be put link to hit guide.

This provides direction to further reading that is suggested, lauds the work while also providing a very relevant target in the meanwhile. Sorting out info from guides like this is tough work. There are many player contributed guides in DarkMatters and SacredWiki that can be disseminated this way, but still hasn't been done for years now.

As a guide, and with us pointing to it from cannon pages as should be happening, is a fair use of current community time and resources

 

:)

 

gogo

 

P.s. Silver, you have done put some great work and time into this translation. Game mechanics are of high interest, and this is very useful and interesting info to the readers. See what happens when you show up at DarkMatters? ^^

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We should probably just do both, then. That would solve both problems. Adding info that's missing on appropriate pages ensures that individual pages are complete and useful as possible, and additionally linking to the whole guide would allow for keeping the info together and helping readers link related concepts together.

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Analysing the damage formula:


damage taken = damage dealt*(100% - DM) * (damage dealt*(100% - DM) / (damage dealt*(100% - DM) + damage are absorbed by armor))


you can notice that the armor absorbs the more damage than a higher DM has character. In particular, with a 33% DM armor begins to absorb in one and a half times more damage, 50% of DM - 2 times more damage, 75% DM - 4 times more damage. This makes the skill of "Toughness" is the more valuable, as it not only increases armor and DM, but also increases the efficiency of this armor.

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On the value of specialized skill depends on the magnitude of the hidden modifiers parameters of equipment.

For example some of the types of armor option "detrimental magic effects -x%" requires armor mastery;

Every point in the appropriate skill (maximum 255 points) increases the hidden parameter modifier:

 

1) For bonus parameters of armor and weapons, emerging with each other cumulatively (1+1=2) and a chance to block: melee\driver\fighting skills x% on the armor.

 

The final modifier = Basic modifier* + Basic modifier / 255 * level of skill (maximum 255)

 

If a hidden parameter modifier initially requires mastery of skill, then when you open the option right will have a 27% bonus.

This bonus is applied directly, I.e. multiplied by the basic* value of the parameter.

 

Growth graph bonus depending on nested skill points linear, the final parameter is increased approximately in 2 times in comparison with the base case of the value of specialized skill 255.

 

The approximate value of the bonus option at n nested points in the skill profile:

1 - 2%,

50 - 18%,

75 - 27%,

100 - 36%,

150 - 54%,

200 - 72%,

255 - 90%.

 

2) For bonus parameters of armor and weapons, emerging with each other in a unique way with lowering progression(1+1=/=2), for example "chance of the enemy: cause bleeding", "detrimental magic effects -x%" etc.

 

A bonus is also multiplied by the basic parameter, but the final bonus at each level of the skill profile is much less than if modifier was cumulatively.

If a hidden parameter modifier initially requires mastery of skill, then when you open the option right will have a 9% bonus.

The final bonus for the characteristics of this type increases linearly and is the result:

1 - 1%

50 - 6%

75 - 9%

100 - 12%

150 - 18%

255 - 30,5%

 

3) For bonus parameters of shields:

 

Hidden by skill modifier "chance to block: x%" on the shields (not on the armor!) it has its own progression:

 

40 points in a skill - 50% bonus

80 points - 75% bonus

192 points - 100% bonus,

255 - 110% bonus.

 

For example, if the Kira's wall at 1 in skill "shields" is set to block 43,7%:

40 skill level - 43,7*1,5 = 66%,

80 skill level - 43,7*1,75 = 75.4%,

255 skill level - 43,7*2,10 = 89,4%

 

If a hidden parameter modifier initially requires mastery of skill, then when you open the option right will have a 72% bonus.

 

*remember that a basic setting of each thing depends on the dificulty level : for example, if on "silver" base value block shield 200 level of 35%+, the "niobium" already 47%+

Edited by mibbs
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