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Unique and Legendary Database Renewal


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I love how sharp and crisp those stats images look - and at such small file size. The extra info and formatting is VERY good to see...the pages no longer look like stubs but actual pages.

 

I like everything you said, really. Using different frames and backgrounds for Fallen Angel/Ice and Blood/CM Patch items is a good convention. Currently it's applied a little irregularly in places.

 

I think I got most if not all of the red links for the uniques and legendaries. I didn't do the sets yet so there are plenty. One good thing I always do I have the items modifiers page open in another tab. A little while back we worked on the page and I think we got them all added to the list.

 

One very common red link I run into is some form of "Regeneration Time -X%". The actual page is named "Regeneration Time:"...with a colon at the end.

 

Also I haven't brought it up yet but there are links to pages like "Regeneration Time: Death Warrior" or "Aspect: Death Warrior" that appear haphazardly in spots across the wiki...I haven't brought it up yet but I think those links need to be corrected and the pages need to be deleted. I've been making the "Regeneration Time" or "Aspect" part link to the general page, and linking the name of the aspect to the specific aspect page. To slightly further complicate that issue there's also a page called "Aspect: Name" which is sometimes used. This is tangential to your project but I thought I'd mention it anyway in case you tackle those kinds of links.

Edited by Flix
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I had a thought about jewelry. Currently on the Wiki we only show the icon, but rings and amulets actually have models and textures (some of them very large and high quality), but since they don't display on the character when equipped, the only time they're seen is when they're on the ground. How feasible would it be to make pictures of the actual jewelry models from when they're dropped on the ground?

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I thought about the jewellery when I was doing the set pictures. It would be nice to picture the actual models, but the only way it can be possible in game is by somehow disabling the beams and sparks that fly around all drops (and around uniques they are excessive). If you know the way to turn off the all the special effects, it may be possible to make pictures of the jewels. Otherwise, the best I was able to get looked like this:

1rvj0k.jpg

Same with the Sigils. Each of them has a unique rune design, but how to showcase them besides showing their inventory icons, I don't know.

 

Thank you for reminding me of the Item Modifier page. And really, the regen time page wins the prize for the least intuitive name in the wiki. I was thinking about it for quite some time... because when you write "Regeneration Time" and the link goes red, you start to suspect that something is wrong. Such a cornerstone of the game can't be without explanation. Of course I found the page, but finding it didn't help me to understand why this name was chosen. I understand that when the regen time -% spawns on item, it has a colon in the modifier text, but the page is rather about one of the principles of game mechanics than about a modifier that uses this principle. After all we don't have Aspects page spelled with the colon...

 

I'm working with CM Legendaries right now, and can somebody please explain me one thing. Namely, this:

33atf2p.jpg

2m4tzlk.jpg

Both items are listed on the wiki as legendaries, but when I actually see them in game for the first time, they spawn as uniques. And to think of it, czevak listed Hammer of the Righteous as "unique hammer" in change logs (that is why the red link for it was on the unique page). But there definitely were screenshots that pictured both items as legendaries, unless the red background of unusable items plays tricks with the text color. Or maybe they spawn as uniques at some difficulties and as legendaries at the others... I don't know what to think. In blueprint.txt both are labeled as uniques and I see nothing in the description that indicates otherwise, but I'm not the greatest expert in item scripting. Their blueprints are 2954 and 2955 in case anybody wants to take a look for themselves (and 2953 is Tiddlywink, all three of them seemingly being a part of a promotional giveaway).

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finding it didn't help me to understand why this name was chosen

 

I know Gogo created a lot of the modifier pages, and he reproduced the names faithfully from the game ("game is god"), including all the unusual capitalization and in this case, punctuation.

 

 

the page is rather about one of the principles of game mechanics than about a modifier that uses this principle

 

It's intended to be both, I just haven't gotten around to filling in the list of items that have the modifier. When I came across that page a few months ago it was basically empty. I started by adding in info about the concept, and left an empty spot for the item list. You can see how that all came about in this thread : Help Building a Regeneration Page on the Wiki.

 

 

Both items are listed on the wiki as legendaries, but when I actually see them in game for the first time, they spawn as uniques. And to think of it, czevak listed Hammer of the Righteous as "unique hammer" in change logs (that is why the red link for it was on the unique page).

 

I actually just added in that Hammer of the Righteous pic, about a month ago, since there was only a blank page for it. I moved it from Uniques to Legendaries because, as you can see, it dropped as an orange-text Legendary item in my game. I have latest CM Patch and I haven't messed with that item or any items that I didn't create myself. So I don't know what to think either. I can put it in a stash and send it to you if you want to see if it's still a Legendary in your game, and/or you could do the same.

 

I don't know what in the scripts makes an item a Legendary instead of a Unique - I guess I'll be figuring that out soon enough. I know that many set items have the designation "unique" despite working just fine as set items.

Edited by Flix
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I did some additional testing of these two items - got them to drop on all possible difficulties at different item levels (2 versions for each difficulty - 10 versions of each item, collected by 6 different characters). I see them as uniques all way long, though the stats are exactly like they are on the wiki. I packaged the chest and uploaded to DarkMatters downloads section, as we didn't have a download for either of these items before.

 

Though I got them not from bosses, but mostly as quest rewards, it should not matter. For a comparison I did the same with legendary Gruma's talisman (wanted to see if czevak actually nerfed it as he was going to do, and the answer is "no"). This one is legendary all along.

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Well the ones you uploaded are Uniques on my system as well, but the one I got remains a Legendary. Here they are side by side:

 

T0JGNtG.jpg

 

Mine dropped from Ordaucil, or one of the Dragons in the island cave systems.

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Of course, seeing is believing. Not that I disbelieved before, the main reason for testing these items was to try to understand what causes them to drop one way or another. I wanted to see if the difficulty or character's level makes them switch their rarity, and I still have no answer. Maybe being boss drops matters? Or the area where they drop?

 

Now that it's clear that they drop in different quality even within one difficulty level, I can't help but wonder: Why they do it? What other items are capable of it? And, finally, how should they be classified on the wiki?

 

Actually, the question of what these items are is academic, since the bonuses are not affected by quality change and the items are equally useful regardless of whether they are unique or legendary. But what to do with wiki database? Link them to both Unique and Legendary?

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I have no idea how that should be handled. I get other items dropping as Legendaries as well. Most of the Unlock items that were made to drop freely with the CM Patch, for example, seem to drop as Legendaries in my game, though they are gold-text on the Wiki. Just picked up an orange-text Shattersword after defeating the Gar'Colossus.

 

Maybe there are two blueprints for them or something.

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Maybe there are two blueprints for them or something.

 

That was my first though, and I eliminated the possibility quickly by searching through blueprint.txt and other scripts for all items that use particular itemtypes (models and textures). Besides the blueprint 2954, which drops to me as Unique Bugslayer, the only ones that use the same model are clearly Paladin's Honour, Pyx's Cudgel, Grimwald's Guardian and a random rare club. There just isn't another blueprint that looks like it can be a legendary version of this thing. Wonder if I'm missing something, but neither blueprint.txt nor drop list can offer me something that can be an answer.

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We need to better understand what differentiates a Unique and a Legendary. From what I understand it's the 2nd number in the "mincontstraints" value. For example,

 

minconstraints = {1,14,0}, --Bugslayer has tier 14

 

minconstraints = {20,15,1}, --Bergonix' Axe has tier 15, definite Legendary

 

minconstraints = {20,13,0}, --Grimwald's Guardian has tier 13, definite Unique

 

Junk items are at tier 0, Magic around 5, Rare around 9, etc.

 

Maybe tier 14 items can tip either way, either becoming a Unique or Legendary.

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The giude about Item quality levels vs Enhanced Perception - Magic Find - Bargaining has quite accurate description of item tiers and which of them is which.

 

And yes, tier 14 can be either unique or legendary. Other items of this tier include Methedrin's Scepter(Legendary), Nadjii's Splitter(Unique) and the famous Kal'Dur's Legacy that is known to spawn as both (was pure legendary in FA, drops mostly as unique in I&B, but those who had it from old days still see it as legendary). Also of tier 14 is Braggis' Law which even has two pictures on the wiki - legendary in FA, sometimes unique in I&B. Actually, this whole story immediately reminded me of Kal'Dur's Legacy and its tier change and now I understand why.

 

So I guess the only sane way to treat these items is to include both versions of the stats with appropriate note and include them is both unique and legendary listings. Unlocks are easier as they already have a page of their own so we don't have to think about classifying them.

Edited by Silver_fox
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Thank you for helping me to understand the issue with those items. Now that we established that they are really both unique and legendary, and as tier 14 items they have a right to be so, I tried making dual pages for them.

 

Here is one for Hammer of the Righteous. Please tell me, what you think of it.

 

And that's how it looks in the database: Community Patch Legendary Items#Hammer of the Righteous

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Looks good to me. So the Uniques database will also have an entry that links to/includes the same page?

 

EDIT: Ok, I see that there is. One other thought I had is that maybe the notes or the top of the page should say that the stats will be the same regardless of whether it's Unique or Legendary.

Edited by Flix
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Nice. I see you've found yourself cozy project to work on Silver. I like these kinds of projects. Sprucing up the place. :D Is it worthwhile to consider a template in place of images for this project? I believe we already have most of the icons required... Just a thought.

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Well, I know that some sections of the wiki need attention more than this database. Many links in the quest section are still red. I was working with quests in the past, I know I make good pages for them, but I also know that I can easily sink several hours into one such page. For now I wanted some smaller project, where being unable to spent half-a-day per page won't bring a work to a halt. These item pages take only several minutes to edit (longer if you count the time for making images, but still not much) and the result is quite noticeable. Now I do them in big bunches, later may work a bit slower, but there would be some progress anyway.

 

I don't think the template is warranted for stat images. They are small files, so I don't think much space would be saved by changing them to typed text. They are fast to make, once you have a screenshot - I actually doubt it would speed work up if I would have to find an appropiate icon and type out the modifiers by hand. There was time when I tried to type the modifiers into item stat images instead of using a specially configured magic wand selection - I know it takes more time. The only use for a template would be if we have modifiers as links - but that would give us trouble as the links do not normally come in all colors of the rainbow. Besides, if modifiers would be links, each database page would get over nine thousand of them and would become very slow. If you have time to work on templates, maybe you can look at the quest dialogs once again?

 

Though I'm afraid I would need some help later. When I move to the older pages there would be a lot of old images that were uploaded directly to the server and only you have a right to delete these. As of now, I wonder how this page should be treated: Sacred 2:Khral's? It is linked from set items page, but these items do not officially form a set. They are united by the same name, but it's not worth much. This way we would have to also create Gruma's, Charo's, Arnum's and other set pages as many names make multiple appearances in unique and legendary item. Still, I know better than to delete a page without asking first. Also, the images from this page aren't used in other places.

Edited by Silver_fox
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Well thought out regarding templates. I agree.

 

As for help later feel free to let me know. I can try to follow along as you replace images that only I can delete. As for what you said about Khral's, I agree. It can be deleted as well as the images. Feel free to. Otherwise let me know and I will.

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Just decided to show you, guys, what I'm currently killing my time with. I'm making a page for a brand new legendary that was added in the latest CM. That's a shiny (literally) little throwpotion called "Light of Eärendil" (also known as Phial of Galadriel) - another fine addition to our growing collection of LOTR Easter Eggs.

2vuwvhx.gif

I only wonder if the page really should be named with an "ä" symbol. Game, of course, is God, but how well does the wiki take to unusual characters in the link texts? How easy would it be to find such page (I mean, how would the search treat it)?

 

Oh, and by the way, which "in use" picture do you prefer?

2lw1x6p.jpg

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#'s 2, 6, and 5, in that order.

 

I'm glad you added that one. I'm always seeing it in the scripts because it was the last item added before I started adding my own items. Never found it in-game though.

Edited by Flix
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#2 is my fave. As for the "ä" I think the wiki will handle it fine. The only possible draw back is if someone were to do a search it using an english a. I don't think the wiki or google will find it if someone were to search for "Light of Earendil".

 

Thanx for deleting the unneeded Kral pages. :)

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My concern was either for the search - many people do not even have the "ä" on their keyboards so they won't be able to search using it. But Google treats "ä" and "a" as the same letter and finds it easily enough. I'll try the wiki search when I finally stop wasting my time on the forums and get to finish that page.

And that second pic is my fav too, I just decided to show the other attemps in case my taste fails me. The thing is - it was taken at night and I usually try not to use night pictures for item showcase. But it's so bright that it looks good. Light of Earendil - turns a night into day!

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The page for the Light of Eärendil is finished. I tried searching teh wiki for "Light of Earendil" and the search did turn up the page in question, if only because I used "earendil" in picture file names. Regardless, the search works, so everything is OK.

 

And so I finished the Community Patch Legendary Items‎. Now entire CM item database is complete and has new pictures and page design. My next target would be Unlock Items section. I wonder if they should have CM patch stat colors and frames, as installing CM is the only way to get these items without knowing the codes. On the other hand, the codes are still there somewhere and the items can be spawned without CM. Just wonder what do you recommend using - CM design or Fallen Angel one? Also, there was supposed to be an Unlockable shield too, but I don't see it on the wiki.

 

I'll update the first post of this topic with progress.

 

I also searched through the wiki and found these pages:

All Temple Guardian Uniques

All High Elf Uniques

All Seraphim Uniques

I guess these list random items of tiers 13-15 that were found sometimes in the past. I wonder how to treat these pages.

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From what I remember Random Unique pages are to be deleted, for the same reason we don't document every single magic or rare item: the combinations are too many and too random. Those must be stragglers that didn't get deleted because they didn't show up as orphans. Some foreign language pages still link to them.

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Some time ago, Flix reminded us all that many of the old pages for Unique and Legendary items look quite bad (if not to say worse). Most of old images are almost unreadable, many item pages look underdeveloped. Now that Flix sinks a lot of his time into improving the information on various item and item modifier pages, it's a pity that readers' impression of these pages is worsened by bad image quality and unfortunate formatting.

 

So what I am doing:

  • New pictures, of course. I'm changing old pictures that showcase item stats as well as the ones of item in use. Of course, I'm not going to change good-quality pictures, only the less fortunate ones. All pictures would be edited in a uniform way to make a page look more neat. And of course only small GIFs for stats, so maybe some server space would be saved too (though that's not my main goal).
  • Adding standart information about spawn levels, appropriate skills and attributes next to all item stats.
  • Formatting the individual item pages so that they had more finished look (or at least did not look neglected) - making sections for modifiers, notes, maybe see also.
  • Modifying individual pages so that pictures and essential info from them could be included into the main database page instead of being copied over. This prevents information from doubling, so we won't have to wonder how many more pages we would have to go through to finally change a certain picture or bit of information. Besides, it currently works for set items - why not for uniques?
  • Changing database pages to inclusion instead of copying.

Other than that, I'm correcting red links, but only if I remember what a correct version is. I fill in only mundane information and the facts I can easily remember (ones that do not require additional research), so I don't think that my work would completely eliminate the need for Flix's crusade against red links. Basically, I'm more concerned with how the pages look and check that nothing essential is missing.

 

As with all modification/overhauling work, I don't want to proceed without feedback. So, to start the project, I modified the Community Patch Unique Items page and all its subpages for individual items. These weren't the pages that needed it most (and were the ones that changed least), but they were the pages I initially made and I felt more free experimenting with them. So I want to hear what you think. If you approve of the look and feel the CM section of the database currently has, I'd move on and bring more sections to look like this. Suggestions and feedback are not only welcome but necessary.

 

Once I'm done with defining a final look for the images and page formatting, I would of course post a description of what format and editing I'm using, so others could do that as well.

 

On a side note - as all good images in the main database have blue background on stats, I'm going to make new stat images for original FA and Ice and Blood uniques blue as well. CM ones are made with black background to match the actual CM interface.

 

Already finished sections:

Community Patch Unique Items

Community Patch Legendary Items

A nice rejuvenation on this section. Hah, this section is years old, one of the first I think when game was racing and getting released. There was a huge amount of community energy alive back then even coming from the Sacred International Forum, with everyone helping us all at once posting up images of anything they found in game... mysteries still exixted back then, and competition was fierce in putting out a pic that could be placed in the Wiki... go Sacred!

Was checking out your new setup on these pages, and they add excitement, and will probably get even more peeps to try out this classic^^

Great pages like this add value to a player's appreciation of this game, this Wiki is a feature now of Sacred 2

 

Lovely work SilverFox!

 

:)

 

gogo

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I was unsure how to treat the Unlock Items, and somehow ended up looking at the main Legendary Database. It was already in good enough condition, so I decided to take a little time and make it better. First I went through a couple of pages that lacked images, then through those that had bad-quality stats. Pages that have good-looking stat images were left alone (for now), though they can use additional info and formatting, and maybe new "in use" pictures too. That's one thing I wanted to ask you about - old "in use" images for most legendary items are not really bad, but they are 150-250KB GIFs occupying the position where 50-80KB JPGs look better. They also were uploaded directly to the server and can not be normally resized - they use additional thumbnail files instead. As a result we have quite a motley collection of differently sized images that can not be adjusted to any standart. I wonder if it would be better to replace them, or at least to re-upload so that their sizes could be adjusted to something more uniform. What do you think?

 

As of now, Legendary Database is partially renewed and looks OK. I still need to do the Relic pages, but I'm going to look into them later today.

 

EDIT: I finished the Relic pages, so now everything in the Legendary Database has clear stat images.

Edited by Silver_fox
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