Sacred as a tabletop rpg?

[Gilberticus 374]

Someone asked me if I could carve Dungeon and Dragons types of miniatures based on Sacred characters using gemstones. I looked miniatures up, I can't do that, that's a long story. However, unless I'm mistaken, I thought someone once said that they made their own D&D minis? I've never played a tabletop rpg before, could the Sacred universe translate to a pen and paper rp?

[SX255 630]

That’s a tough one to answer.

 

On the one hand, yes, Sacred can be easily made out of Dungeons & Dragons games, as you’ll be deevolving the game. You can probably find all the classes and NPCs under different names, and all the monsters are in the basic bestiaries.

 

But on the other hand, there is the Action of the ARPG. You will need to water down the D&D rules to their basics, and skip most of the RolePlaying part. The results should be something like Castle Ravenloft board game - "Select attack skill, roll the dice, add attack bonus. If hit, do damage" over and over and over again.

 

 

Hardest part would be getting an actual team of people to play with. Try asking any of your employees if they play D&D or the like, then try joining in on a game or borrow the board game instructions book.

 

As for making miniatures, you can always put 2D pictures on bases or make triangles. Just Google "paper miniatures"

 

 

P.S. We would sooner get 3D printed versions of Sacred characters

[Gilberticus 374]

I found out scads of info on this between yesterday and today, some of it might be interesting, at least with what's happening to Sacred 3 in the Gamestops around here. I went to a Gamestop and two hobby shops. With recent events in my life, I haven't ventured out of my house much beyond the obvious necessities of life, this helped me to break the little rut I've dug myself in.

 

The Sacred series wasn't very popular in my new part of the world. What I've discovered with the Gamestops here is that people are seeing some of the flashy promo stuff for Sacred 3, preordering, discovering Sacred 2 for consoles, then coming back to cancel their preorders for Sacred 3. I guess gamers aren't fond of what the Sacred series is transforming into.

 

Sacred 2 could be translated into a tabletop rpg, according to one of the store owners. Granted, you can't just plop Sacred characters into the world of D&D for obvious reasons. I'm pretty sure dude knew what he was talking about, he was wearing a shirt that said something like "My favorite pair of double d" and had dice above the words. So I spent half a day learning the basics of D&D. I agree with him, tweaking and reconstruction of rules would have to happen to both the tabletop and Sacred, the result would be something that's not quite Sacred and not quite your traditional tabletop anymore. That's a bummer, I'm kind of curious how the Inquisitor would have behaved with a Lawful Evil alignment, as he seems Chaotic as all heck to me. According to him, though, there is no more lawful chaotic alignment, the schema has been reduced to five. That's also a bummer. Just as I learn rules and schema, I find that everything's changed. According to the guy, though, a tabletop Sacred would only appeal to those who love Sacred, but want to take their characters beyond Ancaria, beyond the storylines of smashing t-energy or using it to become a being of ultimate power, and he says there's soon to be a much easier solution. He claims that there's a new "RPG Maker" on the horizon that will let you pull your characters and the combat system out of any game and plop them into a whole world you've created. Now THAT is something I'm skeptical of. Granted, I've only played one of the RPG Maker games, in the late 90s on my PS2, but what he's talking about is lightyears away from anything I've heard or played with on the RPG Maker games.

 

Now, miniatures. I've found out a few interesting things from the second store owner. His 3D resin and even pewter miniatures fly off the shelves. However, the kits themselves no longer sell. People are making their own character cards, cardboard tiles, rulebooks, and scenarios. All that really sells any more are dice and miniatures. One thing I found interesting is the reason why he told me kits don't sell anymore, which is that in my area, tabletop rpgs have a stigma associated to demonic cults, they use them to recruit. Seriously, Holy Hannah!? I came home later and watched a Youtube video of a group of guys playing D&D. That's horse crap, there's no dark rituals happening there. Now, granted, I don't see my friends and I playing D&D, but not because of satanic bs. What would happen is we'd get maybe a half hour into it, and Scotty would probably say "Dudes, I got my own microbrewery kit, who wants a beer?" You know how it goes: playing would lead to drinking and side conversations until someone, probably Jimmy, would say "Dudes, you remember when we went to the Lake Erie Metalfest back in the late 90s? Then old videos and cds would come out, and that'd be the end of our rpg. But demonic? Come on.

 

Oh, what dude said that was most interesting to me was he fears even dice and miniatures will be declining soon, because of the 3D printers. He fears the toy industry in general is going to die because everyone is going to have a 3D printer in the next 20 years. Honestly, I highly doubt that, I don't see those machines as ever being practical and economical enough to where every household has one. I watched someone make something on a Youtube video, a basic G.I Joe type of deal, with bendable joints. Dude spent a LONG time creating a 3D image. The machine made it fairly quickly, but then dude took an exuberant amount of time putting the parts together. And then there was the painting, and then coating the thing with this type of glue for durability. To me, it seems much simpler to grab your kid, run down to Toys R Us, and letting them pick out a handful of G.I Joes rather than making them yourself. Maybe Some of us would dig making them ourselves, but the process seems too complicated and too expensive for EVERY household to be doing it.

[SX255 630]

What I've discovered with the Gamestops here is that people are seeing some of the flashy promo stuff for Sacred 3, preordering, discovering Sacred 2 for consoles, then coming back to cancel their preorders for Sacred 3. I guess gamers aren't fond of what the Sacred series is transforming into.

 

Seriously? New comers are actually canceling their preorders of Sacred 3, because they played Sacred 2 and liked it? Or is it because they played Sacred 2 and didn’t like it?

 

That's a bummer, I'm kind of curious how the Inquisitor would have behaved with a Lawful Evil alignment, as he seems Chaotic as all heck to me. According to him, though, there is no more lawful chaotic alignment, the schema has been reduced to five.

 

Five? That makes no sense. A classical alignment system is a 3x3=9, and between Lawful and Chaotic there is a Neutral.

Neutral Evil (NE) is perfect for selfish players who are evil, who don’t mind following the rules from time to time, but also like breaking them just as much.

 

One thing I found interesting is the reason why he told me kits don't sell anymore, which is that in my area, tabletop rpgs have a stigma associated to demonic cults, they use them to recruit. Seriously, Holy Hannah!? I came home later and watched a Youtube video of a group of guys playing D&D. That's horse crap, there's no dark rituals happening there.

 

Yeah, its an old stigma since the begging of the game in the late 70s or something. Had too much scary art on the covers, then came the wackos with agendas. The "D&D is satanic" rumor is older than the Internet.

Nowadays everybody moved on to videogames.

 

To me, it seems much simpler to grab your kid, run down to Toys R Us, and letting them pick out a handful of G.I Joes rather than making them yourself. Maybe Some of us would dig making them ourselves, but the process seems too complicated and too expensive for EVERY household to be doing it.

 

I agree with you on the 3D printer skepticism – they are not good enough for every home yet. Right now the affordable ones can only print out toy sized objects. But the 3D printers are too convenient to go away, and will probably evolve as the old personal computers. Fortunately, they will not replace the "batteries not included" toys with electronics any time soon. Nor will it overshadow the professional toy makers as you still need skills in 3D design (or go earn a CAD diploma) to make good use out of a 3D printer, else you are at the mercy of other designers.

 

And no one should trust a selfprinted opaque die - too easy to make it loaded.

[Gilberticus 374]

Yup, five alignments. As of 2008= Lawful Good, Good, Unaligned, Evil, and Chaotic Evil. Also, from what I understand, with the sacred 3 part,they're playing Sacred 2 and then cancelling Sacred 3 because all the characters they've just come to know and love are gone, and the whole loot fest is gone. However, this is only One Gamestop in a very small state. This is also coming from only one store manager's mouth. It's my experience that those working at the Gamestop's I've gone to are very biased. Those are the guys who originally talked me out of buying "Too Human", and I absolutely love the tar out of that game.

 

I've looked up the "D&D stigma", learned a lot. It's such a shame that a few wackos can destroy something good. Not just with D&D, but in all manners of things. Even in my job, for instance. The most beautiful gem I have is a smoky quartz. I think I got this one in Greece. It's a shame I can't get a better pic of this by using my laptop, because this is the cleanest, most beautiful specimen I've ever come across, especially one that grew from a geode of this nature. In layman's terms, most geodes look...well, kind of like Superman's fortress. But some geodes are kind of in a spindly, haystack type of structure, like this one. But I digress. To this day, I have a heck of a time selling smoky quartz because of the stigma of black quartz being used in things like black masses. Such a flippin shame.

[SX255 630]

Let me double check about the alignment. That’s cant be right…

MY GODS! Those maniacs! And I thought “healing surges” were just terrible stakes destroying continue tokens. This takes the cake. It destroys the colorful pallet of personalities you could randomly generate, turning it into a simple slider on how good-evil the NPC is. What a horrible idea.

 

What was wrong with random charm of the old 9 alignments? Did they really think having the party running into a lawful good paladin troll be an immersion breaker? The old system was great. I loved the Neverwinter Nights 0-100 alignment system where some actions added or detracted points to your alignment. Steal from you friends -5 to lawful, raid a village -15 good. Those moment were rare, and you never evolved out of you start alignment, but the potential was cool.

 

To hell with them then. Good thing I got into D&D after they stopped releasing the Red box, and had to settle for Pathfinder. My advice to you, if you want to get started into D&D games, go with successful Pathfinder series and their beginner box – it comes with everything you need to get started from scratch, and is very supportive on explaining the improved/fixed 3.5 system.

 

 

That’s one epic quartz monolith. Must have took forever to become so long.

At first I even thought you were carving a Sacred 2 resurrection monolith out of it. Add a base to it, and there is your tabletop prop.

[Gilberticus 374]

Neverwinter Nights....... you know, I have a Neverwinter Nights 2 in my Steam library. I have no clue how it got there, but it says I played it for 17 hours. I haven't a clue as to whether or not a video game even comes close to a tabletop, but maybe I'll have to give this a look when I'm done with Lichdom

[lujate 574]

Regarding the "D&D==Satanic" nonsense, there was even a movie about it. Check out "Mazes and Monsters" with Tom Hanks. The moral of the story was poppycock, but the movie was amusing enough.

 

 

Edit:

Upon further reflection, that movie was not about the alleged Satanic aspect, but other "dangers".

Edited June 1, 2014 by lujate

[SX255 630]

Neverwinter Nights....... you know, I have a Neverwinter Nights 2 in my Steam library. I have no clue how it got there, but it says I played it for 17 hours. I haven't a clue as to whether or not a video game even comes close to a tabletop, but maybe I'll have to give this a look when I'm done with Lichdom

 

Oh it's very close to the table top battle system, and thankfully rolls all the rolls automatically. Sadly, the stories are not very good.

The original forces a longsword on you for most of the game, so you can’t take other weapon proficiencies. The party size is very restricting (until the BS final battle ), and some party members are coded to betray you no matter what.

 

The sequel Mask of the Betrayer has an annoying hunger meter.

Storm of Zehir was fun, but I ended up becoming a trillionaire by maximizing the trade rutes.

Mysteries of Westgate was intriguing, but it ended too early.

 

Don’t bother with the crafting system – it’s overcomplicated, and some rare components don’t even appear in campaigns.

 

I recommend using this mod to expand the PC race roster. If possible remove the Appearance.2da, as it broke Mysteries of Westgate game twice. Didn't have any trouble with it in Storm of Zehir.

 

P.S. "It’s a trap – the pit is filled with sharp gemincrusted spikes"

[SX255 630]

Here is the crash course on the D&D and M&M movie lore, made by Spoony:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMuzt5K4Fwg&t=57s

[Gilberticus 374]

Mazes and Monsters should be the comparison when considering a movie's level of suckiness. No, maybe that's a bad idea idea, because that'd mean damn near everything would have a "well, it sucks less than Mazes and Monsters" rating. Well, maybe "Monsturd" comes close. And no boobs? What movie from that time period DIDN'T have boobs? Even "Starman" had partial boobs!!!!! One thing Spoony forgot is that's not how a group of college nerds behave when their group has a female, I saw them in college, they giggle like Beavis and Butthead or awkwardly stare at the ground.

[podgie_bear 184]

If you really want to transfer Sacred Universe to a Table Top 'Pen & Paper' style game then you really should consider the Iron Crown Enterprises rule sets. Unlike D&D they were based on percentage chances of success and skills increased based on percentages as well, so the higher your skill level the harder it is to improve it. I loved those rules and was Gamesmaster for many a happy foray into diverse mythos, from scifi to wild west and from fantasy to horror. Also you improved the skills you used as you used them, none of this stupid D&D style killing ogres with an axe to improve your lockpick skill! The Cthulu games rules worked in a similar way. Both were far better than the D&D style of rules.

Edited June 2, 2014 by podgie_bear

[SX255 630]

Iron Crown Enterprises have a big library of games. Any particular one you could recommend? Or perhaps link to a rulebook?

[podgie_bear 184]

Rolemaster was my favourite http://ironcrown.com/rolemaster/ although I did tend to edit it and make personal amendments to suit the needs of the stories. It almost broke my heart when our group broke up, but real life, work and other interruptions do tend to rear their ugly heads and ruin things.

Edited June 2, 2014 by podgie_bear

[SX255 630]

Holly processed biomatter, the 1999 Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing book is 250 pages long. That will take some time to get through from scratch.

Excuse me, but for now I will try tracking down and going through the Diablo 2 pen and paper literature, as that is the closest system we have to the desired results.

[podgie_bear 184]

Holly processed biomatter, the 1999 Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing book is 250 pages long. That will take some time to get through from scratch.

Excuse me, but for now I will try tracking down and going through the Diablo 2 pen and paper literature, as that is the closest system we have to the desired results.

Well if a mere 250 pages is going to put you off, then I see no hope for a 'Pen & Paper' Sacred. Aahh, these youngsters, no stamina or dedication, lol. Sounds a bit like modern programming, make do with what they can get away with rather than put in the extra effort and do it right first time. Deep Silver anyone?

Edited June 4, 2014 by podgie_bear

[SX255 630]

Don't get me wrong, I own the Pathfinder Core Rulebook Wooden Brick that is 550 pages long, and read through many big RPG books. All I’m saying is that the research will take up a lot of spare time. If you want to help out and need some bedtime reading material, your contribution would be appreciated.

 

By the way, you guys want to play with 20 sided dice, or more common and customizable but less RPG 6 sided dice?

 

P.S. Did anyone ever even finish the World Largest Dungeon that is 2 year long campaign in 840 pages?

Edited June 4, 2014 by SX255

[podgie_bear 184]

We played with 2x d10s to get a true percentage. That's how Rolemaster works, for example;

Using a skill with a value of 54%, you must roll 54% or under to succeed in using that skill.

Attempts to increase that skill after a number of successful uses you must roll over 54% to improve by 1%.

Edited June 4, 2014 by podgie_bear

[SX255 630]

Yes, d100 does sound like it will be very useful.

I guess then a bag of standard d20 system dice is in order for the game

[podgie_bear 184]

Yes, d100 does sound like it will be very useful.

I guess then a bag of standard d20 system dice is in order for the game

Uuuhhh? We used a black D10 and a white D10, black represented '10s', white represented single digits. So rolling 5 on black dice and 4 on white dice would mean rolling 54%. D20's? Sounds very AD&D, they were the ones who expected you to have D4s, D6s, D8s, D10s, D20s and everyother dice ever invented. Suppose they had to have something to sell besides the rule books.

Edited June 5, 2014 by podgie_bear

[SX255 630]

So you're proposing to only use a d100 in the game for a random number generator?

[SX255 630]

Another question: do we want the game board to be squares, hexagons or gridless?

[podgie_bear 184]

We only needed the 2 D10 dice, everything else was in the charts we used from the Rolemaster rules book. As to the actual table top bit I don't know as we didn't bother with it, we were strickly pen & paper and didn't use tabletop figures and maps as they limited what we could do. If the players try going in a different direction than expected, the gamemaster has far less leeway and flexibility if he has to use the tabletop. It's much easier to adlib when it's all in your imaginations.

Edited June 7, 2014 by podgie_bear

[lujate 574]

We used a tabletop map for combat only.

[SX255 630]

And I love building dungeons out of Second edition Descent and D&D adventure system tiles: