Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Elric of Grans

No clue where to start (build)

Recommended Posts

I have never played a Temple Guardian for more than a couple of levels. I just found the class weak and confusing. Still, it also seems really cool. I was thinking of making another go at it, but need some help. Part of the issue is that guides for this are either console-only, pre-I&B, Utility Builds, require Noib Shopper/Smither or straight out admit the build will suck until high level. I am hoping to find something that fits my own situation better ;) PC and fully patched with I&B, a Shopper in mid-Silver (so far) and only wanting to take Blacksmithing for utility skills (because I need a smither and find the Shadow Warrior boring). I am not a great player either. I understand the game mechanics, but in terms of execution I am probably only average.

 

In terms of Combat Arts, I have not got much of a clue. I know I WANT to use T-Energy Shroud, which also sounds essential, so that is good. Combat Alert is clearly a fantastic CA too. Most guides seem to be based around Deathly Spears, so I am guessing I have to use it (correct me if I am wrong). In Source Warden, Untouchable Force sounds great, but the others do not inspire me much. On paper, the Lost Fusion abilities sound amazingly fun, but I understand they are severely underpowered. I would like to use them, but not if I am setting myself up for a painful experience.

 

For Skills, I obviously need the appropriate Lore/Focus skills. Presumably I would want to go Tactics Lore and Devout Guardian Focus. If only one of them can be mastered at lvl75 (and the other at, say, 20-30), would Tactics Lore be the prime choice? Hafted Weapons Lore would be the obvious weapon pick to me. If I took Untouchable Force, I would also need Souce Warden Focus and Concentration. Armour Lore and Warding Energy Lore seem no brainers; Toughness too, perhaps? Does Toughness reduce damage BEFORE it is applied to the shield? I wanted Blacksmith, so that is in, with perhaps Combat Discipline at the last skill? I was thinking an order like this:

Tactics Lore (mastered 1st)
Hafted Weapons (left at 1)
Armour Lore (mastered 1st)
Source Warden Focus (to 9)
Concentration (left at 1)
Devout Guardian Focus (to 20-30; mastered last)
Warding Energy Lore (mastered 2nd)
Toughness (mastered 3rd)
Combat Discipline (mastered 4th)
Blacksmith (mastered 5th)

 

For modding, the guides I have looked at are extremely unclear. Would I do T-Energy Shroud first? Should I do Combat Alert second, since I only need two mod points? Do I rush to Deathly Spears ASAP, or is it not really needed until higher difficulties?

 

If a Lost Fusion-based build would not be too painful for my situation, would someone be able to offer any advice on how to start it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SX255    628

I advice getting the T-Energy Recharge mod your first priority. It should make your life a lot easier.

It is not a good idea to use combos with the first time TG, so skip the Combat Discipline.

Deathly Spears is a great defense skill for melee fighting, and is always a good skill to have on any difficulty. Keep it in your skill tree for when you get surrounded. Though for one on one you might find Dedicated Blow or Battle Extension as a better alternative.

You can go just fine without Combat Alert through all of silver.

Untouchable force is a good melee support, but you can go without it if you take the T-Energy Derogate mod.

Consider having Fiery Ember or Icy Evanescence as the last skill in your tree. They are great fire/ice WMD by attacking most enemies on the screen.

Edited by SX255

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aegis    251

I personally don't find the TG to be any more weaker than, say, the high elf in the early moments. I currently have a TG at gold and have yet to use him as I was busy playing with the pyro elf and ranged dryad, but he's definitely not a pushover. This is also one of the rare times where you probably don't want to dwell over the guides in this forum/wiki and consider more of what YOU want to get out of him. I myself wanted to go melee, so the skills that are pretty much a given for him would be tactics, devout focus, WEL, a weapon lore like a hafted or sword (I went with sword out of preference), armor, and toughness as my backup in case shields fail. Every other space is up in the air for whatever you feel like adding (something I had problems deciding on mine when I first started). Of course, even if you choose to go caster, you still would want the skills I mentioned above save for the weapon lore, plus either source warden skills or lost fusion skills.

As for CAs, Deathly Spears was furthest from my mind. Instead, I focused on dedicated blow. Gives immediate results while you have to build up deathly spears over time, plus it is frickin' powerful. Of course, given how squishy he is in the beginning, I modded t-energy shroud first and poured points into WEL as one of my top priority skills. I also prefer combat alert to remain a temporary buff as opposed to a permanent one. As a permanent buff, your benefits get cut in half, and I have no issues with constant recasting. And while both focus and tactics ought to be mastered, if you had to choose one over the other, tactics is definitely the one to go. Focuses in general can be left around 20 points while you master the other skills first.

Overall, however you want to develop your TG, I personally approach with the mindset of turning him to a tank or near tank first.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
claudius    80

Just for a build to beat niob I don't plan on mastery for each skill of course. I plan for 5 or 6 and I find skills like constitution or enhanced perception that perform with only a couple of points.

 

edit NOT constitution. I meant concentration. Sorry. :nooo:

Edited by claudius

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I decided to just do what I wanted to try and started a Lost Fusion build. I figure he was built with a gun in his arm, so he aught to use it. He is only lvl8, but I have been experimenting with the CAs to get a feel for the basics. Is there anyone with more experience who could advise me on using them better? I spent an hour or two using the CAs, the arm gun and basic melee, then tried Battle Extension (passive) and found I killed ten times as fast :P

Amplifying Discharge: Seems to be an upgrade on the basic arm canon. A useful way to soften things up a little from a range, but not a primary killer.

Furious Emblazer: Looks cool, seems useless. How do you hit anything with it? I have repeatedly got a clumped up group of mobs, tried to tag them all, hit one of them... once. I would have thought it would eat Kobolds at this point in the game, but I struggle to do anything with it. I am guessing the hit-box on it is not where I think it is. I would love some advice on this!

Jolting Touch: Seems a great combination buff/debuff to use against Champions/Bosses. I can understand why people combo this with Deathly Spears.

Archimedes Beam: Looks cool, but not terribly practical. I guess it would make a mess of things in dungeons, where multiple mobs are funneled into the beam, but probably not too useful in big, open areas. How do you make best use of it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SX255    628

Unfortunately, I two am a big fan of Battle Extension – two hands, one metal tentacle of death, +50% damage.

 

I went with Furious Emblazer, but almost never found any good use for it. It rarely hits enemies, unless they are running right at you, does some damage against bigger enemies, but overall is a waste of skill points and runes. You are better of socketing your weapon with a chunk of lava.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flix    2,967

It's my opinion that Lost Fusion has to be paired with Source Warden to be really effective. Aside from doing great area of effect damage, the elemental spells from Source Warden weaken enemies to fire/ice damage from your Lost Fusion spells.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
claudius    80

read 'the dwarf in the right arm' by Vaclef (spelling?) for tips on Lost Fusion. It's in the builds section of the forum.

 

I forget but there is a way to have a combo first hit an art and then put Battle Extension in the second or third slot of the combo and it sends a long range shot or burst of shots all around. Try Amplifying Discharge followed by Battle Extension. It should first send your combat art and then the guy goes nuts with his arm laser and shoots all over the place. Not sure how practical it is long term.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Silver_fox    394

I probably won't recommend following the 'Dwarf in my left Arm' guide to I&B players. This guide is quite good, but it was written for Fallen Angel and some of its aspects were changed in I&B. I had a Devout Guardian/Lost Fusion TG like this back in Fallen Angel times (similar CA usage, but fully fighting char, without utility skills), and was surprised to see how much weaker this character became in add-on. The trouble is that such build relies heavily on socketables - in I&B the 'All Skills' and 'All CAs' bonuses were halved, also deathblow and critical hit item modifiers stopped working with spells. In I&B it became harder to build up Lost Fusion CAs to the point when they do considerable damage using the 'eat one rune and socket the rest' principle alone, because they need a lot of +CA modifiers socketed to be powerful. Using deathblow and crits to increase damage outcome also stopped being an option, so you need to look for other ways to support Lost Fusion CAs. Not to mention that surviving I&B regions with only Armor and Warding Energy for defensive skills won't be easy.

 

If I start building a Lost Fusion TG now, I'd choose the same combination that Flix suggested: Lost Fusion+Source Warden, for the sake of using Amplifying Discharge (with two Ice Bullets mods)+Icy Evanescence and Furious Emblazer+Fiery Ember combinations. Also, if you use the Community Patch and go for a Lost Fusion TG, you might want to consider adding Ancient Magic skill to the build. The guides never mention this option as it only became available in the later versions of CM, but it's as useful for TG as for the other casting chars.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flix    2,967

These are the basics to how I built my magic TG. I don't have the time right now to type everything up like a guide but I can answer some questions if you want to try it out.

 

nwOMorkm.jpg 8nYPdXUm.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tips, but I guess this class just is not for me. I love the concept, but I do not like the Source Warden aspect (at all) and find Lost Fusion more trouble than it is worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SX255    628

Thanks for the tips, but I guess this class just is not for me. I love the concept, but I do not like the Source Warden aspect (at all) and find Lost Fusion more trouble than it is worth.

Then don't do ether - go full Devout Guardian.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flix    2,967

 

Thanks for the tips, but I guess this class just is not for me. I love the concept, but I do not like the Source Warden aspect (at all) and find Lost Fusion more trouble than it is worth.

Then don't do ether - go full Devout Guardian.

 

Agreed. Elric, the TG in your first post is almost identical to my Devout Guardian, if you replace Blacksmith with Combat Reflexes and Hafted with Swords (neither change is necessary though). Plow through stuff with Dedicated Blow, Battle Extension and Deathly Spears, and dip into Source Warden just for the buff.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have thrown a few ideas together on a different idea, focusing on Devout Guardian. How would this work? I am not sure if this would hold up early game (until things pull together), and also not sure of perhaps overkill on the defense. I am worried that spreading points so much early on will mean I lack points for a weapon lore until at least Gold, which could be painful.

 

Attributes: Stamina until 50, then Stamina and Will. The idea is to get regens low asap, then further lower regens while boosting shield capacity.

 

Skills:

Level 02: Tactics Lore (damage, DG mods)
Level 03: Sword Weapons (for Lightsabers, when I can get them)
Level 05: Armour Lore (keep regens low and armour high)
Level 08: Devout Guardian Focus (help with regens, mods and maximum level)
Level 12: Source Warden Focus (mods)
Level 18: Concentration (for dual-buff)
Level 25: Warding Energy Lore (in place of Consitution)
Level 35: Lost Fusion Focus (mods)
Level 50: Toughness (left until late game, for survivability)
Level 65: Blacksmith (because I do not have a character with this)

Master Tactics Lore, Armour Lore and Warding Energy Lore at 75. Only need 31 points in Source Warden/Lost Fusion Focus early-ish, for mods; may add more late game. Devout Guardian Focus will probably only need 21 points. Leave Concentration at 1 point (maybe a few more late-game).

 

Combat Arts (numbers represent points invested to unlock that mod):

T-Energy Shroud: Power [3] > Reduction [5] > Reflection [9] (survivability)
Dedicated Blow: Transformation [14] > Intent [22] > Impact [70] (single-target killing)
Deathly Spears: Gore [31] > Occult [42] > Jab [55] (Area of Effect killing)
Combat Alert: Barricade [70] > Riposte [87] (survivability)

Jolting Touch: Payback [3] > Self Repair [5] > Shelter [9] (buff/debuff bosses/champs)
Archimedes Beam: Paralyze [14] > Weaken [22] > Annul [31] (debuff bosses/champs)

Untouchable Force: Mind Control [3] > Calm [5] > Crumble [6] (debuff)
Primal Mutation: Combust [14] > Helpless [22] > Helpless [31] (debuff bosses/champs)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SX255    628

That looks like a very good plan.

Though I recommend selecting Recharge for second T-Energy Shroud mod - that way you will never ran out of shields.

And consider moving Blacksmith to Level 3 or 5, as socketing rings and elemental damage into weapons will be very helpfull when you can do it at any time anywhere you want. Plus, you can easily outdo the blacksmiths improvements if you put enough points into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Aegis    251

In all honesty, you can't go wrong with either recharge or reduction. If you're worried about surviving in the beginning, recharge is the way to go. Otherwise, keep it at reduction and make sure your TG survives the early going for the damage mitigation to finally develop. The T-Energy Shroud is far more powerful using reduction as your mod. But then again, in the long term, so long as you be pumping out points to WEL till mastery and socketing items to enhance your energy shields, your T-Energy Shroud will be strong no matter what.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
claudius    80

I like recharge with the mirror and derogate mod because otherwise when your shield goes off you lose those.

I like energy, energy with the reduction

Just my personal choices

 

Of those I will take the second option if I am going on a 'toughness strategy' where I spec gear to see how high mitigation I can get. The reason is that mitigation has increasing returns rather than diminishing. For example going from 0 - 25 mitigation you take 1/4 less damage as you were taking. But going from 75-100 you gain an infinite amount less damage because you are now taking 0. Or 50 - 75 you are taking 1/2 as much damage.

If I am not going a mitigation strategy I will take the 1st option.

 

Another point on derogate. There also is a hidden defensive benefit to derogate in that you can potentially afflict 'weaken' status on the mobs and it tics every second to see if you get the effect.

Edited by claudius
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the go-ahead. I have started this guy and will see how he goes. I look forward to getting those regens down so I am less reliant on Battle Extension's passive.

 

I am not terribly fussed on Recharge. The magnitude is kind of pittiful (even with Tactics Lore). It is a little sad that other classes regenerate their health faster in combat BEFORE mods than a Temple Guardian's shield can after. I definitely see the benefit of Derogate, but with Untouchable Force I already have a magic-damage pulse to weaken AND stun mobs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×