Sacred 2 Enhanced Edition

[Flix 5,116]

45 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

I asked you for it, but you said it was something which affected all types of creatures. If you tell me what to do, I will differentiate it myself as I walk through Ancaria.

For this, you would want to edit the applicable entry in creatureinfo.txt   The lines are:

  walkSpeed    = 100,
  runSpeed     = 200,

Look at the "type" line for the unique identifier.  This is the creature's itemtype ID.  Multiple creatures in creatures.txt may use the same itemtype, so they would all receive any changes made to the creatureinfo.txt entry.  This typically isn't a problem, for example if you speed up a little brown rat in Ty Lysia you would also speed up a big brown rat in Artamark.

[Charon117 50]

4 minutes ago, Flix said:

OK let's brainstorm. You said the increased potion cooldown alone doesn't seem to do much, but what if the long cooldown was paired with a nerf to the amount healed by each drink?  I could for example make the amount healed by a small health potion 20%, a medium one 40%, and a big one 60%.

I think the best way to look at it, is as a completely broken system which we should not necessarily take as a starting point.

Ofcourse we have to take the limitations of the Sacred 2 system into account.

One of the most basic limitations that Sacred 2 has it doesnt recognise inputs at the same frame. So if you drink a potion and then activate a CA, your CA wont get taken. Conversly if your press on space incidently falls on the same frame as a CA, you wont drink a potion. Usually you will never notice this, because of pressed LMB and RMB, but sometimes ... just sometimes ... you dont consume a potion when you should have. For this reason I dont think our goal should be make the player drink potions more frequently. Our goal should be infrequent, strategic consuming of potions.

So how do we get to infrequent, strategic consuming of potions ?

As a basis for this discussion I would cut potion drops to 30% of the current drop rate.

Additionally I would increase players health to x3 times the current amount, split among all attributes and modifers that give health. x3 times the amount for +health modifier. +150% for vitality, and +50% for constitution.

IMO the best solution would be to rewrite the whole code to make a maximum of 5 health potions consumeable every 30 seconds.

The second best solution would be the one I suggested in the Addendum thread. 30 second cooldown. 20% decrease per instance, stacking with diminishing return, and a low cap of 0%. Both of this requires source code access and modifying skills.

The third best solution is just to make them incredibly expensive to buy. Its not the best thing, but its something.

[Flix 5,116]

@dimitrius154 Are you able to find out if type = "BONUS_NOEVADE", (Opponent's Evade Chance - X%) has an effect on enemies who don't possess any Chance to Evade?  My understanding was that it wouldn't, but Sacred 2 forum lore seems to say otherwise.

[dimitrius154 612]

57 minutes ago, Flix said:

has an effect on enemies who don't possess any Chance to Evade?

Does not affect targets without the Chance to Evade bonus, or the Combat Reflexes skill.

Edited December 31, 2019 by dimitrius154

[Charon117 50]

6 minutes ago, dimitrius154 said:

Does not affect targets without the Chance to Evade bonus, or the Combat Reflexes skill.

So the displayed increase in hitchance in the character window when equipting OCE is a bogus, or everything has at least an evasion chance of 0% ?

[dimitrius154 612]

6 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

So the displayed increase in hitchance in the character window when equipting OCE is a bogus, or everything has at least an evasion chance of 0% ?

Guess sitting at 3 am affects my organic cogitator adversely. Just checked again, there's no bogus.

There's a final dice, where all these boni participate, as well as attack and defence values. Then again, as far as I know, the calculation is somewhat broken, because there's a certain line where = has been misplaced with +. I've got that changed in the Addendum.

[Charon117 50]

35 minutes ago, dimitrius154 said:

There's a final dice, where all these boni participate, as well as attack and defence values. Then again, as far as I know, the calculation is somewhat broken, because there's a certain line where = has been misplaced with +. I've got that changed in the Addendum.

Sooooooooooo ... OCE gets represented in a broken, but applicable, state in non-Addendum versions ? And it might approximately work as the formula I described ? And in what way does it work in Addendum then ?

[Flix 5,116]

Ok here's some of what I've been able to accomplish for 2.3:

• Damage +% on Runes and "Whet" Blacksmith reduced by 50%. In other words it's now less than half of the yellow-tier Damage % bonus.
• Chance to Halve Regeneration Time now spawns only on rare or better amulets. In return, the weapon-lore unlockable version of this bonus is increased by 25%.
• Chance Opponents Cannot Evade Attacks value on items reduced by 50% (except those unlocked by Weapon skills). Now only spawns on rare or better rings.
• Item bonuses to individual skills are increased by 4x. Item bonuses to skill groups (Offensive Skills, etc.) are doubled.  All Skills +X on items is slightly more rare now.
• Attack Speed, Casting Speed, and Movement Speed may now spawn on magic or better rings. I moved the bonuses from the "rare" ring bonus group to the "magic" one, which is a much smaller pool. So not only will these bonuses spawn on lower tier items than before, they will also spawn more often.
• Movement Speed may now spawn on all tiers and types of boots and leg armor.  Previously it was only a possible bonus on about half of all boots and leg armor.
• Magic and rare amulets may now spawn with flat armor bonuses to poison, magic, fire, and ice.
• Flat, single-channel armor values on items are increased by 30%.
• All player and enemy combat arts which reduce the opponent's armor now use percent reductions instead of flat amounts.
• Enemy Speed now scales higher per difficulty level, up to +60% at Niobium difficulty (+80% in Challenge mode).

I'm still deciding what to do about potion drops.

[dimitrius154 612]

6 hours ago, Charon117 said:

Sooooooooooo ... OCE gets represented in a broken, but applicable, state in non-Addendum versions ? And it might approximately work as the formula I described ? And in what way does it work in Addendum then ?

If my calculations are correct:

Hit chance original formula: (500 + Surehit_bonus) * (ChancetoDenyEvasion_bonus + 1000) * 3000) / (((ChancetoEvade_bonus + 1000) + 3000 + AttackerLevel - DefenderLevel) / 1000

Hit chance Addendum formula: ((AV * 1000/(AV+DR) + Surehit_bonus) * (ChancetoDenyEvasion_bonus + 1000) * 3000) / (((ChancetoEvade_bonus + 1000) + 3000 + AttackerLevel - DefenderLevel) / 1000

[chattius 2,522]

3 hours ago, Flix said:

Item bonuses to individual skills are increased by 4x. Item bonuses to skill groups (Offensive Skills, etc.) are doubled.  All Skills +X on items is slightly more rare now.

My gut feeling says:

This will perhaps have a HUGE impact on single aspect characters (like my Singer barbarian in D2F). And I am not speaking about negative impacts. I would take rings with +CombatArtTreeFocus to bring my main CA's to higher levels.

On the other side: x-mas goose, cookies, nuts and sweets may have ruined my gut feeling ;) 

[Charon117 50]

9 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

Hit chance original formula: (500 + Surehit_bonus) * (ChancetoDenyEvasion_bonus + 1000) * 3000) / (((ChancetoEvade_bonus + 1000) + 3000 + AttackerLevel - DefenderLevel) / 1000

I honestly cant make sense of that formula. All I can take from it is that OCE gets applied, and the character panel says the final hitchance increase is something a little lower than the OCE value. If that formula is correct.

Can we trust the character panel ?

 

@Flix Changes look good so far but I dont see the point of making +AllSkill even more rare than they are now. Not only is +AllSkill not that good of a modifier anymore with that values, but they are already rare enough. 36 hours of gameplay and I can count +AllSkill jewelry I got on one hand. Just some input though.

Is the flat talisman armour bonus an AND or INSTEAD modifier ?

Did you see the edit here ?

19 hours ago, Charon117 said:

Edit: Oh yes, for EE and Addendum I suggest lowering minSpeed from 50% to 30%, while taking a second look on MS decreasing CAs. For now I suggest to half the initial value of Levins Array Paralyze to 25%. Other CAs and mods will have to be individually looked at, but I assume halfing of the initial value will be a reasonable starting point. Keep in mind that +/- MS has no diminishing returns, propably. Edit2: if you increase the speed per difficulty so drastically you dont have to lower MS decreasing CAs.

Also @Flix Life regeneration for Enhance ? Seriously ? GTFO and give me casting speed instead, as it is custom for a magic enhancing blacksmith art. With that Enhance might just become a good choice for casters. Maybe even pair it with AS, so that physical and casters might both find it viable, since one CA never gets boosted by both.

I also find the current COCE and OCE values completely reasonable. AV and DV are bad, but they are bad by design, there is nothing you can do about that. They are also the base values of where all calculations start, so its not unreasonable that they are bad.

 

[Androdion 875]

1 hour ago, Charon117 said:

I dont see the point of making +AllSkill even more rare than they are now. Not only is +AllSkill not that good of a modifier anymore with that values, but they are already rare enough.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. Other than via Bargaining +All Skills jewellery is very scarcely available. Now I wouldn't say that it isn't a good modifier because once it starts stacking it can be very powerful, case in point my Paladin in D2F which has around +60 All Skills, which makes even level 1 skills be relevant in higher difficulties. The modifier is powerful as is, it just almost never drops. It can be shopped to kingdom come, but then again the same is true for nearly every relevant modifier in the game.

[Flix 5,116]

1 hour ago, Charon117 said:

Is the flat talisman armour bonus an AND or INSTEAD modifier

INSTEAD. It is now a possible bonus among all the others that may spawn on Magic tier or higher amulets.  So a blue amulet may only have armor, and a rare amulet may have armor and something else (or even just two armor values).

 

35 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Other than via Bargaining +All Skills jewellery is very scarcely available. Now I wouldn't say that it isn't a good modifier because once it starts stacking it can be very powerful,

Hmmm... so maybe scarcity may stay as is, and instead the intensity of the bonus can be lowered.  BTW I've never touched All Skills in any mod before, so whatever is has in current releases is what it's always been since I first played the game in 2010.

[Charon117 50]

25 minutes ago, Flix said:

Hmmm... so maybe scarcity may stay as is, and instead the intensity of the bonus can be lowered

I would say droprate can at least safely be increased by 10% of the original value. And why intensity ? a level 80 ring only has +2. Do you want to have + 1 for 80 levels ? Look, I dont even use +AllSkill, because they are not the best thing that drops, but even if I wanted to, I only have 1 ring to use anyway ><.

[Androdion 875]

Yeah, the intensity thing... I don't bite. Like Charon is saying the bonus isn't huge and by levels 80-90 you're still getting +2/+3. You can only stack and abuse that modifier with a shopper and a smith, and most people won't go that far for that.

I think that the dev's nerf was enough, further tampering may be a case of trying to fix something that isn't broken. That jewellery could drop more in higher class enemies but other than that I think it's fine as it is.

[Charon117 50]

2 hours ago, Androdion said:

Yeah, the intensity thing... I don't bite. Like Charon is saying the bonus isn't huge and by levels 80-90 you're still getting +2/+3. You can only stack and abuse that modifier with a shopper and a smith, and most people won't go that far for that.

I think that the dev's nerf was enough, further tampering may be a case of trying to fix something that isn't broken. That jewellery could drop more in higher class enemies but other than that I think it's fine as it is.

The 2.43 version had a very nice thing where bosses would have a very good chance of dropping +AllSkill material, I really liked that. Now even that got nerfed to hell, as you can farm 50 bosses and might get 1 AllSkill item out of it.

The problem is that Flix cant figure out what drops who and when and if. Otherwise he could jank in some increased dropchances for AllSkill exclusively for bosses. Or other interesting mobs.

 

Edit: Uurshus Inquisition is grossly underpowered for being a unique.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Charon117

[Flix 5,116]

Alright All Skills will be left alone. Given that I mostly play and test D2F now, EE has the danger of becoming victim to me doing "armchair" balancing, that's why I'm relying more on player feedback.  Most decisions translate well between the two mods, but given how different the combat arts are, some things can be missed.  For example there are a lot of buffs in D2F that grant flat armor resistance, but almost none in EE.

2 hours ago, Charon117 said:

Edit: Uurshus Inquisition is grossly underpowered for being a unique.

Hm, on review, a lot of the unique armor is weak. They tend to have inferior sockets and bonuses compared to set items, despite having the same, or even lesser, drop chance.

If you spot anymore that stand out I can see about improving them.

[Charon117 50]

TaliaMets Madness icon is that of a talisman, but the game treats it as a ring.

 

Is there a way to remove the delayed hp bar update. And make the hp display correct up to 1 frame ?

Edited January 2, 2020 by Charon117

[Flix 5,116]

I checked and that actually is a ring icon. They even made models and pretty high resolution textures for each piece of jewelry even though no one would ever see them (loot glow covers them up while on the ground).

 

[Charon117 50]

23 minutes ago, Flix said:

I checked and that actually is a ring icon.

It looks EXACTLY like all the other talisman. Although so do many other rings.

Edited January 2, 2020 by Charon117

[dimitrius154 612]

On 12/31/2019 at 8:04 PM, Charon117 said:

I honestly cant make sense of that formula.

Looks more, or less the same, as the Diablo II hit chance formula to me. What exactly is causing the confusion?

[dimitrius154 612]

13 hours ago, Flix said:

They even made models and pretty high resolution textures for each piece of jewelry even though no one would ever see them

They can be made visible, while being worn.

[Charon117 50]

6 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

What exactly is causing the confusion?

That I am not familiar with gaming formulas. As a mathematician I try to find the simplest expression of behaviour, but I dont have the experience of a game developer which makes such formulas different from the most basic ones.

6 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

They can be made visible, while being worn.

Try it ?

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to remove the delayed hp bar update. And make the hp display correct up to 1 frame ? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[CapnTucker 29]

On 12/24/2019 at 10:19 PM, Flix said:

Hey glad to hear you're enjoying the mod.  SuperSpawn will show up in the Generic Mod Enabler.  Just select it and click the "Disable" button.

Thanks!

[Charon117 50]

Flix, could you look into the following problem.

EE2.2, SS, C: The Fog Boss Monster has an ultra hard hitting attack, which appears to be DOT, which one shots even the sturdiest builds.

L91, 11k hp, Ice Mitigiation 15% - 20% ?, 3934 Ice Armour (3x legendary ice reliqs)  and the Boss still seems to apply 4000 dmg every 0.5 seconds over the course of 2.5 seconds. Which equals to 200% of the chars total hp.

Now I dont really want to complain about the difficulty on a Challenge run, but even though I have a ranged character it makes the boss fight even more lame than usual, not even talking about melee chars. So I would like to see a change which doesnt one shots every build in the game. A few example would be to spread out the damage from 2.5 seconds to the normal 5 or 7.5 seconds. Or maybe something else unexpected is going on.

 

To the relevant people, is there a way to make the hp bar update instant ?

Edited January 20, 2020 by Charon117