Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
gogoblender

ReSpec in UnBended - Yay or Nay?

Recommended Posts

claudius    80

I have an idea. Respec a limited number of levels going back. So say at 20th level you can respec back 3 levels, but not all 20. This prevents you from totally changing a character from a tank to dps or something but allows you to fix ideas that don't pan out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tigerbiten    3

Another option is at the end of the level when you gain a new skill, you have the option to change only that skill.

That way it makes mis-clicks less costly, you only have to play that level out with the wrong skill and not restart the build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

at this point everyone is saying the same thine in different ways. most people are saying some sort of limited respec if any. which means we have to wait and see what kind of system will be in place before discussing actual possibilities. I think its been kinda beat to death at this point. lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
D-molisher    3

I hope theres No respec at all.
It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.
It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...
Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

I hope theres No respec at all.

It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.

It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...

Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.

 

The only problem with not having a compromise is misplacing one point after 60 hours of play on a character you live and having to start from scratch. No one do far has advocated for a D3 style if game. Just an earnable point by point refund to correct mistakes as you go. You wouldn't be forced to hunt for them so it would be no sweat off your enjoyment.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gogoblender    1,465

D-molisher is looking for a shared community experience of suffering, hard work and victory.

It's not the same

 

 

I hope theres No respec at all.
It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.
It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...
Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.



The only problem with not having a compromise is misplacing one point after 60 hours of play on a character you live and having to start from scratch. No one do far has advocated for a D3 style if game.

Half the peeps see that as being a problem..the other half as the great value of no respec

:)

 

gogo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Flix    2,918

Having finally played Diablo 3 extensively this week, I don't even consider what D3 has as "respec" and it's kind of a joke that anyone could consider it so. Diablo 3 doesn't even have skill points. It just unlocks stuff at regular intervals and you choose which ones you want to use for each battle. Choosing a different skill in D3 isn't "respec" any more than is choosing to put Soul Hammer instead of Pelting Strikes into your active CA slot.

 

Respec is when you spend a resource, like a skill point or a consumbable rune, losing it to gain power, and then having the option to get that resource back, ideally by paying another price, making another exchange. This is what's done in Titan Quest and Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Dungeon Siege II, etc. and that's what I'm in favor of. I don't think my thoughts have really changed otherwise on the matter from what I posted earlier in the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

Having finally played Diablo 3 extensively this week, I don't even consider what D3 has as "respec" and it's kind of a joke that anyone could consider it so. Diablo 3 doesn't even have skill points. It just unlocks stuff at regular intervals and you choose which ones you want to use for each battle. Choosing a different skill in D3 isn't "respec" any more than is choosing to put Soul Hammer instead of Pelting Strikes into your active CA slot.

 

Respec is when you spend a resource, like a skill point or a consumbable rune, losing it to gain power, and then having the option to get that resource back, ideally by paying another price, making another exchange. This is what's done in Titan Quest and Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Dungeon Siege II, etc. and that's what I'm in favor of. I don't think my thoughts have really changed otherwise on the matter from what I posted earlier in the thread.

This is true. To be fair d3 doesn't really have specing at all. It's all automatic allocation. The difference between that and sacred 2 is that everything d3 does to your character works for every skill. It's very one dimensional. Switching out skills in sacred is more difficult because the lores n focuses are for dedicated aspects. Those points would be what you'd be respecing. In d3 your main attribute is mainstreamed throughout the characters abilities.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

D-molisher is looking for a shared community experience of suffering, hard work and victory.

It's not the same

 

 

 

 

I hope theres No respec at all.

It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.

It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...

Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.

The only problem with not having a compromise is misplacing one point after 60 hours of play on a character you live and having to start from scratch. No one do far has advocated for a D3 style if game.
Half the peeps see that as being a problem..the other half as the great value of no respec

:)

 

gogo

Yea I get it. But it's not really shared when only one in ten people dies n has to start over alone. But that's hardcore.People playing softcore do so because they don't have the time to dedicate to restarting after every mistake or death. Fixing one point here or there after a hard-earned quest or item craft seems like a fine option. POE has this. Its one point here or there that can't rest a whole character but allows you to discover the best skill path for the most efficient use of attribute points without having to cookie cut someone else's build. It allows for single player discovery for those who aren't full time players. It keeps game play organic and relieves any stress from a first time play through if you find you clicked wrong or chose something that doesn't properly affect the combat art you're focusing on. A single point allowance that needs to be earned can be like any weapon or armor that is a reward instead of a random drop. It doesn't ruin anything. It doesn't kill replayability and it doesn't allow full character reset. There's no downside. You can also choose not to personally use it. Edited by Veracious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
wolfie2kX    522

OK.. I'm gonna finally chime in here..

 

On the one hand, respecing sucks. As everyone pretty much has said, it takes a lot out of the game.

 

On the other hand, it can save you from a potentially BIG mistake. I recall doing something in Sacred 2 many moons ago - I was checking out skills and for some reason I was hovering over Divine Devotion.... I clicked on something else and somehow I wound up getting that skill. It was NOT in my game plan.. Fortunately, there's a game editor that allowed me to fix that. So SOME respecing in case of a mistake like that IS a good thing.

 

On the other hand... In Wartune - a flash based MMO RPG I've played, you do have the option of respecing.. You need to pay about $9 USD worth of game currency and you can remove all your accumulated skill points and redistribute them... Early on, this can be a good thing - but by the time you reach level 80 (which is max), you have all your skills maxed anyhow - and it's not like you can just dump points into any one skill to make it overpowered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

OK.. I'm gonna finally chime in here..

 

On the one hand, respecing sucks. As everyone pretty much has said, it takes a lot out of the game.

 

On the other hand, it can save you from a potentially BIG mistake. I recall doing something in Sacred 2 many moons ago - I was checking out skills and for some reason I was hovering over Divine Devotion.... I clicked on something else and somehow I wound up getting that skill. It was NOT in my game plan.. Fortunately, there's a game editor that allowed me to fix that. So SOME respecing in case of a mistake like that IS a good thing.

 

On the other hand... In Wartune - a flash based MMO RPG I've played, you do have the option of respecing.. You need to pay about $9 USD worth of game currency and you can remove all your accumulated skill points and redistribute them... Early on, this can be a good thing - but by the time you reach level 80 (which is max), you have all your skills maxed anyhow - and it's not like you can just dump points into any one skill to make it overpowered.

So you're undecided lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lujate    375

wolfie, I think you needed a "Are you sure?" button not a respec.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bhav    24

No respecs in game ...

 

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

 

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

No respecs in game ...

 

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

 

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense. Edited by Veracious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
lujate    375

 

 

No respecs in game ...

 

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

 

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bhav    24

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

 

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

Edited by bhav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

 

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

 

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

 

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

 

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.
Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have to start from zero after a hundred hours of dedication. A point here a point there. Edited by Veracious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bhav    24

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.

Not sure how new you are to PC gaming, but modding isn't anything new, its as safe as using the community patch for Sacred 2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bhav    24

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.

Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have ti start from zero after a hundred his of dedication. A point here a point there.

And you can do exactly that very easily with the Sacred 2 character editor:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/sacred2/mods/2/?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

 

 

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.
Not sure how new you are to PC gaming, but modding isn't anything new, its as safe as using the community patch for Sacred 2.

 

And while everyone here seems to be wonderful Human beings it may not be the same when downloading grim some other third party site. Your view is to limit other people's gaming options while limiting your own around your play style is more convenient to the whole. You don't like the undo option that's fine. You don't have to participate in it. Others who don't have the hours to spend rebuilding an entire character or staying the game over from scratch would find a single point undo option helpful to their limited amount of free time. And it wouldn't feel like cheating as much as something like a complete character editor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracious    207

 

 

 

 

 

 

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.
Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have ti start from zero after a hundred his of dedication. A point here a point there.
And you can do exactly that very easily with the Sacred 2 character editor:

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/sacred2/mods/2/?

Yes or by earning it in game. Which is less like cheating than editing the game externally. And better for everyone on the whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Knuckles    846

Eveyone has different play styles...and many because of jobs/family cannot spend huge amounts of time to re-start characters. Many like myself do not like using mods or editors and instead like playing the way the developer intended. Of course some mods that fix or add content I will use. Others dislike having to make new characters all the time because of build mistakes ( I love trying out new and weird builds). It's really player preference.

 

Respec is one of those features where most people either love it or hate it....I sort of was in the 'hate it' side. I want my choices to have consequences. I want my characters to be individual. So if the game has infintie free respec, for me some re-playability is lost

 

So I guess, to me, the best solution is a compromise between no respec or infinite respec. Something like what Grim Dawn is doing. While you cannot refund Mastery points you can undo any Skill or Devotion points you have invested. But costs scale up the more you use it

 

Some people don't like that either and complain about costs but I think it's the best way to make both sides happy. You can try any skill for a few levels, see if it fits your build, and if not simply take the points back out. But if you continue to do it, you will soon find it becomes too expensive. Which to me, encourages re-playability

 

Plus you can undo any misclick for free as long as you don't leave that section

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×