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ReSpec in UnBended - Yay or Nay?


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#41 SX255

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:38 PM

Meeting a genie that can grant you a wish is a very plausible quest end for an RPG. It rare, but it happens. For Unbended it will have to be once per game and have a vast selection list of other wishfulfilling options.

 

What about a very rare drop item/rune that lets you turn a used skillpoint back into an unused one?

See, this is awesome!

A great compromise between the original dna of this game and a nod to the future.. .turning it into a delightful adventure is an amazing idea.

 

Well, it wont happen unless somebody goes out an tells the developers. So... get to it GoGo.


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#42 Flix

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 01:57 PM

Well one other thing to note is the Sacred games didn't "need" respec the same way other RPG's (with skill trees) might.  Diablo 2 had skill trees, so players would hoard their skill points to avoid "wasting" them on low-level skills that would inevitably be outclassed by high level ones.  This behavior was so ingrained in players that Blizzard went to great lengths to stop it, first adding skill synergies in v1.10 and then the limited respec reward.

 

A game like Sacred, on the other hand, has all Combat Arts available right from the start, and you decide how to power them up.  It was really a brilliant idea now that I think about it.  So if Unbended uses runes+regen timers or something similar, then the "need" for a respec system is diminished.


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#43 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

In The Witcher 2 there was a very long side quest that started in Chapter 1 and went all the way to the end.  If you finished it, you had the option of using some kind of mystic power to wipe your talent tree clean and redistribute all the points.

 

In Divine Divinity and Divinity 2 there was a wishing well that you could drop gold in to get a reward (one time).  The more gold, the better the reward.  It didn't let you respec, but could give XP, a unique item, etc.  

 

And of course in Titan Quest you could visit the Mystic NPC, who would charge gold for you to buy back skill points.  The more skills you had bought back, the steeper the cost in gold.

 

I kind of more like setups like this.  Not a completely, at-will respec...but an ingame driven functionality derived from work quest or achievement completion that allows some room for missteps, and doesn't make the game too easy, adding that extra loving worth to every minute I play it, and not to just seeing everything the game has as quickly as I can, just to get to the next game, from the next publisher.

 

:)

 

gogo



#44 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

 

Meeting a genie that can grant you a wish is a very plausible quest end for an RPG. It rare, but it happens. For Unbended it will have to be once per game and have a vast selection list of other wishfulfilling options.

 

What about a very rare drop item/rune that lets you turn a used skillpoint back into an unused one?

See, this is awesome!

A great compromise between the original dna of this game and a nod to the future.. .turning it into a delightful adventure is an amazing idea.

 

Well, it wont happen unless somebody goes out an tells the developers. So... get to it GoGo.

Time to bring the Yay/Nay respect topic to UnBended then!

 

:)

 

gogo



#45 lujate

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

IMHO, no-respec, Closed Net and HC were key components of what Sacred 2 great, and I imagine others would agree. So no-respec seems like a reasonable topic to discuss (though we do not know yet if re-spec will even be applicable to Unbended).
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#46 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:52 PM

Well one other thing to note is the Sacred games didn't "need" respec the same way other RPG's (with skill trees) might.  Diablo 2 had skill trees, so players would hoard their skill points to avoid "wasting" them on low-level skills that would inevitably be outclassed by high level ones.  This behavior was so ingrained in players that Blizzard went to great lengths to stop it, first adding skill synergies in v1.10 and then the limited respec reward.

 

A game like Sacred, on the other hand, has all Combat Arts available right from the start, and you decide how to power them up.  It was really a brilliant idea now that I think about it.  So if Unbended uses runes+regen timers or something similar, then the "need" for a respec system is diminished.

 

This is true! I never thought about how trees would add to a need for a respec or not.  And I'm in love with the regen timers. It's an completely new dimension added to builds, something that amped this game's builds, and which we could tweak with endlessly.

 

:)

 

gogo



#47 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:57 PM

(though we do not know yet if re-spec will even be applicable to Unbended).

 

Really?

Is this at all possible?

 

:o

 

gogo



#48 Knuckles

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:16 PM

Some tidbits from the Unbended FAQ

 

Will the combat system be regulated by regeneration time (as in Sacred 1+2) or by the usage of “Mana” (as in Titan Quest, etc.)?

We like regeneration time. It’s almost like real life and in addition, easier to balance. The rules are also more clear to the gamer. So it’ll be more along the lines of regeneration time.

 

How does it look for a possibility to re-skill? Planned, rejected, open?

Definitely rejected.

 

So maybe respec won't be a huge deal if they go with regen timers



#49 SX255

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

(though we do not know yet if re-spec will even be applicable to Unbended).

 

Really?

Is this at all possible?

 

Yes, its possible. PC stats are just regular integers.

1 You could flush all the stat integers into skill points though a simple script on any language.

2 You could apply a reverse skill rune (add -1 to skill point, subtract -1 from undistributed skills = reverse skill point)


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#50 lujate

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:39 PM

I think gogo was asking about whether a system could exist where respec is not applicable is even possible. Not from a technical standpoint, but from a conceptual one. I am not sure if one can exist. I was just speculating. The dev on the last page was being cryptic, so who knows.
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#51 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:41 PM

I think gogo was asking about whether a system could exist where respec is not applicable is even possible. Not from a technical standpoint, but from a conceptual one. 

 

 

This

 

:thumbsup:

 

gogo



#52 Veracious

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:49 PM


 I dont understand why the devs are so against it, 

It's because most of the general community here, from the beginning is from Sacred Underworld and Sacred 2.  
 
Both those games had no respec, which was actually a big part of the HC community way back in the day.  
 
Because of no respec and HC, it made for a much harder gaming experience, and every choice was valuable.  It's why the German Devs don't want it, and most of us here from that original forum from Sacred International Forum are coming from that same background, where no respec and an absolute HC game is a part of our community experience.  
When the game comes out, and people are in HC servers, I think people here are looking for a valuable long term commitment and game.
 
That's why trying to find a balance tween no respec, which was what Sacred series has in it's blood,  or something new, a partial or compensatory respec,  is being sought.
 
:)
 
gogo

In path of exile you can find orbs of regret which allow you to refund one passive node. A very small and hard to amass respec option which hardly ruins hardcore but allows people to correct a small mistake without starting from the beginning. An awesome alternative to full specs.

#53 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 03:51 PM

In path of exile you can find orbs of regret which allow you to refund one passive node. A very small and hard to amass respec option which hardly ruins hardcore but allows people to correct a small mistake without starting from the beginning. An awesome alternative to full specs.

 

 

This I like

 

:)

 

gogo



#54 Ironwill

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:28 AM

They made the right decision.
Diablo 2 didnt allow respecs,while it is possible in Diablo 3.The difference is huge,it greatly reduces the meaning of building a character and reduce replaying potential of the game.I mean if you decided to be a doctor,you can't become an engineer by switching your diploma,you have to start over.



#55 Knuckles

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 07:30 AM

I am not a fan of respec but I understand it's appeal to many players. Some of us may have very limited playing time. Where the idea of having to remake a character you just spent 50 hours on, is a game-breaker for you. Maybe you just want to invest a point or two in a particular skill and try it out on their character before committing to it. Heck, maybe you simply mis-clicked.

 

I wouldn't mind a system where each subsequent skill repsec would cost more. The first few would be relatively cheap, but after a while respeccing would become cost prohibitive.

 

So minor tweaking wouldn't be an issue but if you wanted a major overhaul you better start saving



#56 gogoblender

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:02 AM

They made the right decision.
Diablo 2 didnt allow respecs,while it is possible in Diablo 3.The difference is huge,it greatly reduces the meaning of building a character and reduce replaying potential of the game.I mean if you decided to be a doctor,you can't become an engineer by switching your diploma,you have to start over.

 

Yes...the long term vision of a "game play' ...versus the much bally hooed and touted, consume consume consume.  I actually am intimate with both.  Sacred was pretty much my first real online game, and the kind of "worth" and pain I received from playing it in HC with no respec got me to love all the time I had to put into it, while giving tremendous value to my choice.  I remember spending what seemed like hours, HOURS!!, :oooo: agonizing over decisions like which CA to use and which where to place those precious skill points!

 

:4rofl:

 

gogo



#57 gogoblender

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:05 AM

I am not a fan of respec but I understand it's appeal to many players. Some of us may have very limited playing time. Where the idea of having to remake a character you just spent 50 hours on, is a game-breaker for you. Maybe you just want to invest a point or two in a particular skill and try it out on their character before committing to it. Heck, maybe you simply mis-clicked.

 

I wouldn't mind a system where each subsequent skill repsec would cost more. The first few would be relatively cheap, but after a while respeccing would become cost prohibitive.

 

So minor tweaking wouldn't be an issue but if you wanted a major overhaul you better start saving

 

I was wholly against ReSpec... I remember being absolutely furious when I discovered there were peeps in communities being vociferous about the right to, what I called then, Cheating! :4rofl:  And then I also remember reading posts about families with kids, less play time than before, two jobs, more kids... and then got to thinking that perhaps there could be compromise, a way to increase accessibility to more...

 

then again, if you want to make the world's best game, why compromise, if you're a producing artist, on any piece of art you make right?

 

here's where I duck tomatoes

 

:tease:

 

gogo



#58 Knuckles

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:18 AM

Here's a way to do it. In Grim Dawn if I mis-click while in the Skill Tree page I can simply undo points. So misclicking could be solved that way.

 

But once points are assigned, each time your character levels while you have that skill, that skill becomes more expensive to respec. Let's say it doubles per level just to make the math easy in my example

 

Let's say you decide to try the Skill: Gogo's Glyph of Destruction. You pick it when your character is level 10

At level 11 it will cost 100 gold to remove points

At level 12 it's 200 gold

At level 15 it's 1600 gold

After 10 levels it would be 512,000 gold

 

Now obviously there would have to be a gold cap at some point. But this would allow you to try out a skill for a few levels to see if you like it and and fits your character development. If you decide it's not for you the price would be minimal. Now after several levels you decide that your character wants to go in a completely different direction it is going to be very expensive

 

To me this would satisfy both groups, the ones for and the ones against respeccing. You get some flexibility to try out different skills without seriously stunting your character growth but also would get the permanence of your decisions once you played it with those skills for awhile



#59 gogoblender

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:23 AM

well -thought out.  Specially the part about gogo's glyph of destruction ^^

The way it costs more when it means more, is good, and would make this something that's got a pain cost

 

:)

 

gogo



#60 Veracious

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 12:57 PM

I guess the result would be dependent on whether the points per level were being assigned to a combat skill or an augmenting skill. If its a skill tree like Diablo then I can see why people wouldn't want respec. But for trees like sacred or path of exile earning a single point here and there to fix mistakes isn't unreasonable. I'm sure they'll find a middle ground.




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