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UnBended loot system ... bring your running shoes


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#41 lujate

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 11:56 AM

...

I promise though that if I play with you I won't rob you

...

:drinks: Quite right, but how many strangers did you meet playing Sacred 2?  How many would you have met if Sacred 2 used the loot system that Unbended is planning?

 
 
SX255,
 
Immersion is way too subjective to argue.  
 
In your boss/sword example, why would anyone group up for such a fight?  Solo, you are guaranteed the drop, so why would you group up when every player you add reduces your chances of getting anything?
 
Assuming Unbended uses a system like Sacred 2, you could easily play in password protected servers, but that also discourages playing with and meeting new people.  Like the dev's "choose the right fellow players", playing in your own little sandbox behind a password seems like a back-handed work around to deal with the loot policy.  Work-arounds to a problem that the dev's are choosing to create and can just as easily choose not to.

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#42 Veracious

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 03:28 PM

Looks like technology has changed a lot since the dynamics of olden day Sacred, and our parties and drops... I'm curious as heck as to how the devs will work with this.
I myself actually like the idea that the team leader picks how he wants drops to happen... don't seen any dis-benefits with this at all
 
:)
 
gogo


Yea works great with POE. If you're rushing someone you can mask make it free for all so they can grab upgrades as you go. Or when paying with friends you trust. Short allocation allows you to decide if you want something out to leave it for release. Permanent is good for public games so you don't miss out on your legends or uniques.

#43 Knuckles

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 04:14 PM

I don't know what SC is like since I rarely played it but in HC I never really had a problem with someone stealing drops. I can only think of one time someone did that to me (and I got him back...great story for another time).

 

I understand not liking a 'free-for-all' loot system. I don't like fighting over drops either. But sometimes you got to take a chance on partying with people you don't know. I became friends with soooo many people that way. That's how I first met gogo and Schot.

 

I know S1 was 'First come first get' and at first that didn't sit well with me. But in HC the mentality is just so different than any other mode of playing. It really is like family. Players were always asking if anybody needed help and dropping amazing stuff on the starting island.

 

And that is what I don't want to lose. I don't care about anything else. I want that S1 HC community feel again. I really really miss it.

 

I'm fine if drops are reserved for 10-15 seconds. That way you get first dibs and if you don't want it, it's not BOA and you can still trade.



#44 Thorin Oakshield

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 04:44 AM

My guess is, that Lujate is keeping in mind what happened in the days Sacred: Underworld was more or less becoming an "older" game.

At  those times, the servers weren't filled with just friends, but also with the newer -read: younger - players who'd like to powerlevel and such.

Those kind of players just entered a server - even HC Closed; which I used to play - checked the logbook for open quests, teleport to that area and close all quests just to get the XP and items, before leaving the server again.

I've experienced this several times; and believe me; if there's something frustrating me in a MP game, it's Item / XP robbers. It was also the main reason why I started a new toon up to the first 10 levels in a 4-player server. Just to make sure I got what I worked for.

If not mistaken, this was also the reason why Ascaron removed the main-quest from their servers, because groups of players doing that quest, didn't get the XP because other players closed the quests before they got to that point.

 

Now, for the "team-leader" thingy:

When I was a member of a clan-I-won't-mention, I've been organizing / participating in quite some Clan-events. Logic would be that the one organizing the event, would be the team-leader. However, most of the time it were a few players who happen to be clan-forum moderator / clan-staff who'd took control of the clan-event. As a result, bosses were often fought before all the participants were in place to join the fight; and thus they were left out of the loot and the XP.

Trust me, not much fun when "friends" treat you like that.

 

I can't say much about the loot-system of Sacred 2 MP; since I didn't play it that much, because of problems I had with the before mentioned clan. Since you had to use a clan-tag in your name, I had in my unlimited wisdom decided to add the tag to my log-in name. And since I wasn't allowed to be in that clan, I wasn't allowed to use that tag, however, removing it was impossible.

 

What I do know, is that the system worked fine; except for the duration of the timer. 60 seconds to wait before a drop someone didn't want becomes available for anyone else is too long in a MP game. By then the one making the kill has moved on a lot further, basicly leaving his / her party behind, thus getting more of the XP etc.

Lowering the time-out up to 15 -20 seconds would certainly be better.

 

As for the servers: one of the results of the item / XP looters in Sacred : Underworld, was that in Sacred 2 a lot of players created a single player, password locked MP-server; thus locking up the server slots, making it impossible for other players to play this game in MP.

 

So, all in all, I prefer I short time locked item drop, as it would give everybody a fair share of the drops. The way things work in Diablo 3 are fine to me.

 

Now, as for teamwork:

I remember starting the "Bounty hunters" quest in Underworld at some point with a couple of Dutch players who'd like to do that quest. After some time they left off, because it was taking quite some time to get from one bounty to another. But they said they'd be back later to join in the last runs and get the amulet.

More or less at the same time, several other players dropped in and asked - which was common to do - where everyone was. After mentioning we're doing the bounty quest, they offered to help, but only after a server re-boot.

So, after the re-boot the quest line was started again and something funny happened. Those two Dutch players just stood at the board, while the rest of us - 10-12 persons - roamed the map, killed the bounty and kept killing things in that region. Eventually all bounties were slain, the two Dutch players had their ammy - an unique, if not mistaken - and some regions were so close to getting the region boss, we'd went on a rampage to do those as well; thus having those Dutch players to teleport to one region, helping killing the boss, after all moved to the next region and so on.

Although we weren't able to clear all regions, we did have a good time and it showed me how enjoyable MP could be if you're joined by people you can trust.

 

Thorin :)



#45 SX255

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 05:29 AM

Assuming Unbended uses a system like Sacred 2, you could easily play in password protected servers, but that also discourages playing with and meeting new people.  Like the dev's "choose the right fellow players", playing in your own little sandbox behind a password seems like a back-handed work around to deal with the loot policy.  Work-arounds to a problem that the dev's are choosing to create and can just as easily choose not to.

 

So your entire "no go" opinion on Unbended is based on "I want to meet new people in MP" and "I don’t want MP people stealing my loot"?

facepalm.gif

 

CurageTG1.jpg

 

You are literally complaining about people being ****s in MP.

 

The only solution I can recommend is to have the "PvP + Hardcore mode" on. Then you be the judge, jury and executioner on who gets to keep what.

 

Also, you will never prevent trolls. As a programmer, I guarantee to you, there is no system/code/app/solution to this issue that won’t turn the game into Sacred 3. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a scammer.

 

Would "PvP + Hardcore mode" satisfy your MP game?


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#46 gogoblender

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:37 AM

Posted in the Unbended International Forum

I see many options here, because we have many many more years experience since the game was created... I'm really up for the party leader being able to choose from options for drops... so far.. always looking to be reconvinced!

:4rofl:

 

gogo



#47 Knuckles

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 10:20 AM

How about this for a compromise....

I'll use Gogo for my example (just cuz I can :))

Gogo is in a party, with me and Schot. Another player named Evil Gogo is in the same area as us, but not part of our group.

 

As we are battling a boss and his minions, Gogo's Gaunlets of Gore drops from a kill gogo made. Now he is excited because it's the last set piece of Gogo's Garments he's been searching for. But we're still battling the boss. If there was no restrictions on loot, does gogo trust me and Schot enough not to grab? Plus will Evil Gogo sneak in and swipe the item?

 

This is my idea how to get gogo his needed set piece without worrying.

 

Each enemy will drop player-only loot. This loot will only be able to be seen by that player for 20 seconds.

 

Once the 20 sec timer elapses, that loot will be viewable to all in the group for 60 seconds.

 

After that, it is viewable to all players in the server.

 

After about 5 minutes, loot will disappear from ground. (So we don't have hundreds of white items laying around tying up server resources)

 

So gogo has time to get his gauntlets without having to break off what he is doing, run and grab it. If for some reason he misses seeing it or doesn't want it, his group has exclusive access to it for 60 secs. After that, if it hasn't been picked up, Evil Gogo, still lurking in the shadows, can pick it up.



#48 Veracious

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 12:33 PM

How about this for a compromise....
I'll use Gogo for my example (just cuz I can :))
Gogo is in a party, with me and Schot. Another player named Evil Gogo is in the same area as us, but not part of our group.
 
As we are battling a boss and his minions, Gogo's Gaunlets of Gore drops from a kill gogo made. Now he is excited because it's the last set piece of Gogo's Garments he's been searching for. But we're still battling the boss. If there was no restrictions on loot, does gogo trust me and Schot enough not to grab? Plus will Evil Gogo sneak in and swipe the item?
 
This is my idea how to get gogo his needed set piece without worrying.
 
Each enemy will drop player-only loot. This loot will only be able to be seen by that player for 20 seconds.
 
Once the 20 sec timer elapses, that loot will be viewable to all in the group for 60 seconds.
 
After that, it is viewable to all players in the server.
 
After about 5 minutes, loot will disappear from ground. (So we don't have hundreds of white items laying around tying up server resources)
 
So gogo has time to get his gauntlets without having to break off what he is doing, run and grab it. If for some reason he misses seeing it or doesn't want it, his group has exclusive access to it for 60 secs. After that, if it hasn't been picked up, Evil Gogo, still lurking in the shadows, can pick it up.


Isn't this similar to sacred 2? I'm a little Confused about why the HC players from Sacred 2 are saying what they're saying about the type of loot system.

#49 gogoblender

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 07:36 PM

I'm a little Confused about why the HC players from Sacred 2 are saying what they're saying about the type of loot system.

Unbended has said that so far "they prefer" to go with "first come first served" system... as per sacred original game, you can check first post in this topic for complete quote

 

:)

 

gogo



#50 Veracious

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:36 PM



I'm a little Confused about why the HC players from Sacred 2 are saying what they're saying about the type of loot system.

Unbended has said that so far "they prefer" to go with "first come first served" system... as per sacred original game, you can check first post in this topic for complete quote
 
:)
 
gogo
Oh you're comparing to S1. I'm think of Sacred 2. I've never played S1 multi player. Now I understand. So I take it no one was a fan of the Sacred 2 loot system? I liked it.

Edited by Veracious, 07 September 2014 - 08:38 PM.


#51 gogoblender

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:38 PM

Funny, I think about both systems now, I kinda had a fun time with both... though Sacred original game's one was with a very small, burgeoning community at the time... I really do like the way they went with it with Sacred 2 though...you're right, it was a great system...

which now gets me to wonder...

If everyone liked Sacred 2's system, why do they want to "revert" to an older system that they didn't like in the first place?

:blink:

 

gogo



#52 Veracious

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 08:42 PM

I'm not really sure what the consensus is now. Lol. Is everyone saying they liked S1 or Sacred 2? I was pretty sure when I joined that Sacred 2 was pretty much the dominant topic. So I just assume the comparisons are always to Sacred 2. Lol.

#53 lujate

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:30 AM

Posted in the Unbended International Forum
I see many options here, because we have many many more years experience since the game was created... I'm really up for the party leader being able to choose from options for drops... so far.. always looking to be reconvinced!
:4rofl:
 
gogo

Thanks gogo, I registered there over the weekend to cross post this but am still waiting for my account to be activated.

SX255, I do not think I have unrealistic expectations, since Sacred 2 used the system I am asking for.
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#54 Dorimil

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:40 AM

And that is what I don't want to lose. I don't care about anything else. I want that S1 HC community feel again. I really really miss it.

 

it was the same with Sacred 2, probably not the same persons, but the same "rules". Never met  a community like this in other games. and I still remember my first landing on S1-HC-starting island! :lol: :wow:

so I don't think, that I would have a problem with "first come, first serve"...I know a lot of people I trust in this case. and "loot-grabber" were seperated very fast. that loot-system never pretended me from meeting new people.



#55 junkcollector

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 09:57 AM

I remember the first time I played Sacred (bought the Gold version) and being absolutely wowed by the graphics. I played much more of that game than I did Diablo 2. At that time, I also purchased Titan Quest. Even now, Titan Quest remains unplayed. I still have Sacred and Sacred 2 in my computer.

 

Edit:

But back on topic. I mostly play single player, so how loot is divied up doesn't affect me. But I would think, hope even, that players who game together can divy up their loot without causing enmity.


Edited by junkcollector, 19 September 2014 - 09:59 AM.


#56 Veracious

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 01:53 PM

I remember the first time I played Sacred (bought the Gold version) and being absolutely wowed by the graphics. I played much more of that game than I did Diablo 2. At that time, I also purchased Titan Quest. Even now, Titan Quest remains unplayed. I still have Sacred and Sacred 2 in my computer.
 
Edit:
But back on topic. I mostly play single player, so how loot is divied up doesn't affect me. But I would think, hope even, that players who game together can divy up their loot without causing enmity.


I would guess you haven't played any online multi player games recently? This younger generation is not any where near as social and honorable as our old circles. I remember Diablo 2 where peyote woukd just hand out gear to their friends or even strangers. Today people yell at you that you're a noob and to uninstall. If not fir a community like this one where I know that when I play unbended I'll have trustworthy partners I would stick to single player. I'm glad I rediscovered this site.

#57 lujate

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 02:32 PM

I would guess you haven't played any online multi player games recently? This younger generation is not any where near as social and honorable as our old circles. I remember Diablo 2 where peyote woukd just hand out gear to their friends or even strangers. Today people yell at you that you're a noob and to uninstall. If not fir a community like this one where I know that when I play unbended I'll have trustworthy partners I would stick to single player. I'm glad I rediscovered this site.

QFT

Sad but true... :(
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#58 claudius

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 04:32 PM

The difference for me is my attitude.  If I am not finding gear with a Sacred 2 system I think: "ok just kill more bosses etc and it will drop"..

And compare that to someone else 'getting my loot'..  It makes me upset.  I don't want to compete with someone for who nabs the loot the fastest.  It makes me angry.

 

Regarding Titan Quest there was a lot of customization but not in the characters appearance.  The dual mastery system is genius in that there are 9 masteries and thus  (9+8 +7 etc)  45 combos of masteries.  And then you can spec your skill trees and gear.  Titan Quest is as special to me as Sacred 2.  Multiplayer was bad though because it wasn't closed server.  I also only played where I find my own gear (not twink) so I never found anyone who wanted to play that way with me.


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#59 Dragon Brother

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 06:18 PM

I'm with Rotluchs, individual drops would be my preference, it's just easier for everyone. And as long as you can still share items then great! Although they have to get rid of the stupid decay timer, I don't mind a timer before allowing anyone to collect the drop, but having it decay meant less loot explosions on the start isle in Sacred 2.

I stand by what I said earlier as my ideal scenario: Individual drops (worked something like what knuckles described above, but then once you choose to drop it, remove the countdown before it becomes available to all, and don't let it decay!

 

So I guess a mix of what I view as the best parts of S1 and Sacred 2.






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