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Shadow Step "Vanish" modifier


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http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Shadow_Step

 

Hey guys,

 

taking a closer look at the high elve and her combat arts, I came across the Vanish modifier on Shadow Step, which makes her invisible.

I also looked at Cascading Shroud with the Inconspicuous mod, which can do the same.

 

BUT: Cascading Shroud decreases the CHANCE to be detected, while Shadow Step scales with TIME.

At least the WIKI says so. I was curious and looked it up in the spells.txt.

Both spells use the same modifier: "et_invisible"

So one of the WIKI pages has to be wrong, right?

 

Shadow Veil from the SW uses the same modifier. And its definetly the CHANCE to stay undetected while using CAs, which increases per CA level, there.

So the same should apply to Shadow Step.

entry6 = {"et_invisible", 990, 10, 3, 41 }, means, that the HE is 100% (99% + 1% per CA level) invisible after using Shadow Step.

 

The actual duration should then be

entry1 = {"et_duration_sec", 400, 2, 0, 8 },

 

I did a quick test, but its really hard to tell. What du u think?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, that's my bad. It's a chance factor, not a duration, for the token "et_invisible". So the invisibility for Shadow Step is 100% and the duration is drawn from the "et_duration_sec" token I suppose.

 

Although, Shadow Veil can be confusing to compare it to because it has two separate things going on. "et_invisible" is also used by Cascading Shroud and Shadow Step and is what keeps enemies from noticing you, acting like you're not even there. "et_evade_detection" is what prevents you from breaking the cloaking effect prematurely when you use Combat Arts. If this latter property is high you can stay "cloaked" even though some enemies will see you and attack you (enemies seeing you doesn't break the effect). That might seem to defeat the purpose of using Shadow Veil but there are other buffs that the CA can give you (run speed, reduce debuffs).

Edited by Flix
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oh I totally overlooked "et_evade_detection". I thought the "et_invisible" modifier was the chance to stay undetected when using CAs.

as it seems I got to the right conclusion with the wrong argumentation.

 

btw. I have a level 156 SW with Shadow Veil (Avoidance - Fade - Sinister Pact) and I didnt get revealed once (even fighting level 180 niob guardians). I only have 25 runes in it (for 100% "evade_detection". So u really dont need to enhance the "et_invisible" modifier, which u could with the bronze mod "Creep".

 

Also I dont think u meant "this latter property", because enemies wont see and attack u, if u have "et_evade_detection" at 100%.

and if u have it below 100% the cloaking effect does break.

 

So do u refer to "et_invisible" with your statement?

If so, it would answer my question, which influence the differetent numbers on the different CAs have:

Cascading Shroud: entry7 = {"et_invisible", 10, 5, 4, 41 },

Shadow Step: entry6 = {"et_invisible", 990, 10, 3, 41 },

Shadow Veil: entry1 = {"et_invisible", 25, 10, 0, 41 },
entry2 = {"et_invisible", 25, 10, 1, 41 },

 

So do u think, that u need a high value of "et_invisible", so nobody can see you, or are the numbers doing something else and the invisibility is always granted?

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Also I dont think u meant "this latter property", because enemies wont see and attack u, if u have "et_evade_detection" at 100%.

They can if your "et_invisible" factor is very low and you're close to the enemy. It's easier to see if you mess with the numbers some. It's pretty common in my Diablo mod for enemies to attack the Assassin early on despite still being "cloaked" with Fade, because while the evade detection is quite high, the invisible token value is lower.

 

When I say "cloaked" I mean the Shadow Warrior still looks like a ghost and the world is still darkened. The effect hasn't been broken. It's the same reason enemies attacking the High Elf doesn't end the Cascading Shroud effect - just means they saw you.

 

So do u think, that u need a high value of "et_invisible", so nobody can see you, or are the numbers doing something else and the invisibility is always granted?

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's a percentage, because once the value gets up to 100, enemies never see you while cloaked.

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Well I suppose it could be range. That would be supported by the description text for bronze mod Creep: "Opponents have to get closer to detect the Shadow Warrior".

 

Enhanced Perception was used to determine whether you could see cloaked enemies (like Garema) so it makes sense that it also allowed enemies to see you when cloaked. If you look in creatures.txt you can see many bosses have Enhanced Perception. I think all that went out the window with Ice and Blood though.

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So I went on testing with a lower Shadow Warrior (level 34-40)

At 34 he had a stealth value of 390. So its definetly not a % value (with 1000=100%), because I didnt get decloaked the whole time.

I tested my range theory and got as close to the opponents as I could. Even the bosses (all campaign bosses and a few mini bosses starting with holos and then finishing the campaign) didnt see me.

 

I think this disproves my theory. Too bad, because enhanced perception could have been implemented into this theory easily. I thought of 1000-(Stealth*(1-Detection Chance from EP)).

 

What did u mean with "it went out of the window with I&B"?

And how high did u set the stealth value in the diablo mod?

Edited by xcessive
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Well, before the expansion, the player needed Enhanced Perception to target cloaked enemies, whether Garema Ghost Warrior or a Shadow Warrior in PVP. That was removed after Ice and Blood. I assume that the change also affected monsters' need to have Enhanced Perception as well.

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And how high did u set the stealth value in the diablo mod?

 

These are the tokens for the Assassin's Cloak of Shadows:

 

tokens = {

entry0 = {"et_duration_sec", 4500, 5, 0, 8 },

entry1 = {"et_evade_detection", 10, 20, 0, 41 },

entry2 = {"et_invisible", 25, 10, 0, 41 },

entry3 = {"et_damping_any", 200, 2, 0, 41 },

entry4 = {"et_invisible", 15, 10, 1, 41 },

entry5 = {"et_resist_effectdam_any", 200, 5, 2, 41 },

entry6 = {"et_chance_surehit", 200, 1, 3, 5 },

entry7 = {"et_evade_detection", 100, 20, 4, 41 },

entry8 = {"et_resist_effectdam_any", 200, 5, 5, 41 },

entry9 = {"et_regThisCool", 200, 0, 6, 8 },

},

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Thank you Mibbs. :)

 

@Flix: okay so the numbers for invisibility are also really small here. Do you think "et_invisible" of 100 = 100% might be correct?

I think I´m gonna test it with a high elve when I have the time. U can do the same with the assassin.

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And how high did u set the stealth value in the diablo mod?

 

These are the tokens for the Assassin's Cloak of Shadows:

 

tokens = {
entry0 = {"et_duration_sec", 4500, 5, 0, 8 },
entry1 = {"et_evade_detection", 10, 20, 0, 41 },
entry2 = {"et_invisible", 25, 10, 0, 41 },
entry3 = {"et_damping_any", 200, 2, 0, 41 },
entry4 = {"et_invisible", 15, 10, 1, 41 },
entry5 = {"et_resist_effectdam_any", 200, 5, 2, 41 },
entry6 = {"et_chance_surehit", 200, 1, 3, 5 },
entry7 = {"et_evade_detection", 100, 20, 4, 41 },
entry8 = {"et_resist_effectdam_any", 200, 5, 5, 41 },
entry9 = {"et_regThisCool", 200, 0, 6, 8 },
},

Dear Flix, I want to ask the question for you.


As I understand, shadow veil has 2 different params for evade detection. at first et_invisible, secondly et_evade detection.
But HighElfe's ShadovStep and CascadingShroud have only one param - et_invisible.


Is it right, that, when et_evade detection param missed, there is no difference betveen et_invisible values like 1 or 1000. For example, starting new character, even with 1 CA level ( the value is lesser than 20) and spaming A LOT of GlacialSpikes to the enemy it is impossible for me to fail CascadingShroud invisibility. So, when et_evade detection param missed, is invisibility absolute and unbreakable?


Second question: et_evade detection compares... with WHAT? I think, every enemy has it own Different Class, sucsessful overpassing it allows the character be invisible. But what affects Different Class, what the value I must have to avoid every enemy in the game?

I want to know, but... OH GAME MECHANICKS, why you are so cruel :wacko:

Edited by mibbs
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"et_invisible" of 100 = 100% is definetly wrong.

I didnt test it with the high elve yet, but I played with Daniat yesterday night and we did a guardian run. And the guardians saw, fallowed and attacked my SW (stealth valiue <400), which doesnt happen when I kill them alone.

This means, that "et_invisible" doesnt calculate the chance of beeing decloaked alone. "et_invisible" is compared to one (or more) stats of the opponent. And its one of the stats, that increases, when more players join the server.

This is kind of a breakthrough in my opinion. Now we can narrow the calculation down to only a few things (hopefully).
Unfortunately I only know of a few stats that increase that way: HP, energy shield, damage, attack value, def value?, armor and XP per kill.

Looking at the balance.txt "intensity" is also modified, if I understand that correctly. Does that mean "spell intensity"?
So maybe "et_invisible" is compared to spell intensity. This could then also be modified by EP. Something like this could be the result:

A cloaked char becomes visible to the enemy if "et_invisible" * aspect lore bonus < enemy spell intensity * chance to detect (from EP)
But its just a theory again ;)

Edited by xcessive
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