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3 hours ago, Androdion said:

So is this normal, as in an intentional behaviour of the game now? And if so why?

Heh, it was a version or two ago, we were talking about it earlier in this thread.  It's a balance decision, to dethrone All Skills +X as the king.  In vanilla the values for taking, for example, Defensive Skills +X weren't any better than All SKills +X, so why would you ever bother choosing it? 

The change is present in EE and D2F.  Haven't got much feedback regarding it, other than "yep the values are higher alright," so the change has remained for now.

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Ah, so it's that v13 change from some time ago. Gotcha. Well, it does make the starting levels less rough and it makes Easy mode feel more like it, though in terms of balance even elite mobs two levels below your toon can be a cause for concern so that's that. I have no idea how it'll fare in the long run though. Regarding this I'm curious about the evolution of the bonus value the more the toon grows in level, if it has this sort of peak at lower levels and stall at higher ones that most modifiers bear due to diminishing returns. If it doesn't then these bonuses may get out of hand at higher levels. Do note that I'm saying I had +3 bonuses below level 10 in Easy (Bronze), so imagine it in Niob.

Anyway, my main gripe in the lower levels is that with three relics alone you can double your general skill. That's cool for Magic Find, but for Trading doesn't it become a bit op?

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Sorry for the double post, but I've gone up ten levels since my last one and I wanted to notice a few things separately:

  • Old Gar seems to be much tamer, is it me? Or maybe it's Holy Freeze kicking in and making him slow? Anyway I've killed him with Smite alone, hit and run rinse repeat. I was one level above him.
  • I did the quest "A growing danger" after killing Gar and oh my do the champion elementals bite! Same happened with the ones in the main quest in the Orc region, nasty bunch. It's funny how the big boy was much tamer than these, individually they're fine but a pack of them is a danger indeed.
  • Does Holy Freeze proc on every single mob/champion/boss? I'd say yes according to the Wiki, but some mobs here and there seem to keep the momentum when they're charging at me. Unless they're already faster than the norm.
  • The bronze mod Defiance on Holy Freeze, are the numbers correct? 30%+10% extra per CA level? That's 1030% at CA level 100, it can't be right.

That's it for now. Regarding the high bonuses from the previous post, though my toon raised ten levels the individual bonuses are usually around +5 so they didn't peak much. That's a positive thing, I'll continue taking a close look at those. General bonuses for instance are kept very low as usual, think of stuff like "+offensive skills".

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21 hours ago, Androdion said:

Old Gar seems to be much tamer,

Grew tired of all the feedback stating how impossible he was.  He's close to vanilla now.

21 hours ago, Androdion said:

but some mobs here and there seem to keep the momentum when they're charging at me

Might be useful to know which types of enemies, and if the diversity is happening with in a pack of the same enemies or not.

On 5/17/2020 at 12:22 PM, Androdion said:

Anyway, my main gripe in the lower levels is that with three relics alone you can double your general skill. That's cool for Magic Find, but for Trading doesn't it become a bit op?

No, I don't believe so.  At absolute max levels in Niobium it winds up around +20 I think.

21 hours ago, Androdion said:

The bronze mod Defiance on Holy Freeze, are the numbers correct? 30%+10% extra per CA level?

That thing delivers diminishing returns, there's no way for me to accurately write out how much you gain with each level.  That's what the script values say, so I didn't just pull the numbers out of thin air.

 

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. :)

I think that with elementals it's where it's most noticeable, though bear in mind my experience description was related to a level 1 Holy Freeze. I've noticed how elementals are more aggressive, and I do recall you saying something about that specific quest (A growing danger) being changed somewhat. So it's probably a matter of certain types of enemies being boosted in speed and the buff's effect being less noticeable. It's not negative feedback, more like a curious remark. In Niob at level 200 a bonus of +20 seems rather reasonable. Having those single skill bonuses early on is cool because your level 1 skills for lower levels work much better as opposed to just being there at level one, so if you'd ask me for feedback I'd say it's a welcomed change of pace. Plus it removes the absolute necessity of using Bargaining/Trading as a primary mastery for builds which spread skills too thin across the board (triple aspect toons come to mind). As for the Holy Freeze mod, it just seemed to be one of those out of character numbers, even more so after all the nerfs the Paladin's buffs got after v12. I'd give you some feedback on the values but I chose ice mitigation instead. It'd be interesting though to test that modifier with a level 200 Niob toon, just for kicks.

Let me know if I can be on any further help with the Paladin. :agreed:

  • Thanks! 1

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22 hours ago, Androdion said:

Let me know if I can be on any further help with the Paladin.

Much appreciated. Your feedback (and that of Chattius' daughter) has been invaluable in fine-tuning this difficult character.  :wink:

Sorry if seemed curt or defensive earlier.  I've just been distracted by other pursuits lately and had some trouble getting back into the headspace of Sacred 2.

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No worries, we all have our timings. :agreed:

Haven't made an update because I haven't climbed much in level, at least not as much as in area since I haven't caught up with enemies at my toon's level. Well, that's Easy for you. I dread the SB hitting me in the face when I start the next difficulty level, ha ha. With Inferno+Superspawn I've noticed that a low armour value is a redline sentence, enemies hit pretty hard and champions even more. But once I've began dropping hard points into Armor Lore it became more manageable. I've been playing it a bit by the sketch and a bit by ear because I'm being very cautious as not to die, but I've already sent a few sabertooths to the graveyard... :wacko: Still, some enemies have been harder than others. But my playing style is also a factor since I tend to kite a lot and try to make as little mistakes as possible with big guys (main quest bosses, superuniques) but when it comes to regular mobs I'm a bit more willing to engage in closer combat so mistakes can happen. Like when I jump into a pack with a lot of champions only to make a u-turn and kite kite kite. I think this will be the norm pre-mastery since I'm aiming for Magic Find/Armor Lore/Constitution at level 75. After that it should become easier, plus with the higher level CAs to back it up.

Like I said before the (higher) individual bonuses in gear that are available at merchants is a nice change of scenery in the usual dynamics of the early progression of your toon. It's good to be able to actually stop by a vendor and see its stock without having to invest in Bargaining/Trading to have anything worth using. That was one of vanilla's main issues I believe, with Bargaining vendors are op and without they're totally useless. So now there seems to be a bit more balance in that respect. Oh, I haven't mentioned before but the amulets which provide elemental armour are a great addition. If you play it right you can do a mini-Toughness if you have enough sockets available. It's another thing that becomes very useful early on, and even more if you're playing with Inferno+Superspawn. All in all so far the game seems to have stroke a balance between challenge and easiness. I can one-hit most regular mobs but if I get too cocky and find myself trapped within a big group I get redlined very fast, so it's not a case of being op and entering auto-pilot mode as I need to keep sharp at all times. Otherwise there goes the SB out of the window. :D

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Finished Easy, jumped into Normal. Positive experience all around so far, and the preparation in Easy to start Normal geared up was valuable since mobs are already five levels above me due to SB. But I can still hold my hand to them. Now it's time to spend some time in Tyr Lysia and update my gear to reflect the better modifiers in this difficulty level. I barely had any issues with the campaign, mini-bosses ranged from accessible to harsh (Leoric, Radamant, that succubus Witch in Bengaresh were all tough as nails), Inferno+Superspawn made me exercise my left thumb and my consciousness as I couldn't auto-pilot (yay!) and the general differences in terms of bonuses were under control. I just had this one issue with the Hellfire Arena but it's written in its own topic.

So, Normal it is. Quick question, do I risk hitting the upper limit for mob growth if I start questing in full in this difficulty mode? In Easy I barely did quests and by the third or fourth region mobs were always below my toon in level. So starting Normal at 41 do I risk getting white mobs again?

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1 hour ago, Androdion said:

So, Normal it is. Quick question, do I risk hitting the upper limit for mob growth if I start questing in full in this difficulty mode? In Easy I barely did quests and by the third or fourth region mobs were always below my toon in level. So starting Normal at 41 do I risk getting white mobs again?

These are the level caps in D2F:

LevelCapDiff = {60,100,140,180,200},

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A bit of advice here please. Speed Lore is still at 140% of vanilla right? I'm having second thoughts on my tenth skill choice, between Combat Discipline and Speed Lore. Why? Because the mounted animations for the Sublime Combat CAs are a bit choppy and definitely slower than when unmounted. The transition in the animation from Smite to Zeal (both are in a combo) is the worst offender, in the transition between both CAs the first strike on Zeal is heard but it doesn't land. So in practical terms running unmounted lands at least one more hit in that combo, plus the speed at which the unmounted animation performs is definitely faster than when mounted. But I digress, we all know that mounted animations aren't perfect.

My point being, if unmounted is the way to go then Speed Lore comes into the table, in this case at the expense of Combat Discipline. I only use two combos with only two CAs in each, and given that the values on SL are higher than in vanilla will it be a fair trade? It should go well with Fanaticism for even higher attack/defense values resulting in a better chance to hit, and since the idea is to tank then it should work well enough in my mind. In numerical terms though, is it worth it?

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Yeah, take Speed Lore and go on foot.  I prefer to fight on foot unless I really need the extra health buffer.  I just use mounts for travel.

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