Regeneration time formula

[BrainMuncher 7]

Hi, first post here. I got Sacred 2 back in the day but my PC at the time couldn't run it, so I've been playing it for the first time recently. The following applies to the gold version from steam. I've only played a Dryad so far so I can only 100% confirm that this is accurate for Dryad.

I found the regeneration time formula on the wiki was not giving accurate results, and spent a considerable amount of effort figuring things out, so I thought I'd share it here.

The first thing to understand is that it seems that internally, the game calculates things not as regeneration times, but regeneration rates, or the inverse of the regeneration time (1 divided by regeneration time). This is why when you hover over stamina in the character sheet it shows a high percentage, this number is showing how much faster than normal that your CA will regenerate. That number in particular is an average of all three aspects, so it's not very useful, but it gave me a clue as to what was going on. So if your Combat Arts base regeneration time was 5 seconds, then the base regeneration rate for that CA is:
1/5 = 0.20 regenerations per second

and if you had -60% regeneration time:
1 + -0.6 = 0.4
1/0.4 = 2.5

So if this -60% was the only modifier, and applied to all aspects, on a naked level 1 character (with expert touch turned off), the stamina tooltip should show 250%.

If you now applied that to the Combat Arts regeneration rate:
0.20 * 2.5 = 0.5 regenerations per second

Giving a regeneration time of:
1/0.5 = 2 seconds

 

Now for the stamina modifier. There is an unlisted bonus that is additive with the bonus from stamina. Every time you level up, you get a bonus which is functionally the same as +1.5 stamina. I'm not talking about the 10% stamina gain at level up, it is unlisted and in addition to your actual stamina value.

Let's take a level 90 character with 260 stamina as an example. So to calculate the stamina modifier, first take your listed Stamina amount, minus 25. This is "how much more stamina do I have now than I had at level 1?"

260 - 25 = 235

Now add 1.5 for every level the character has gained:
1.5 * (90 - 1) = 133.5
133.5 + 235 = 368.5

Think of this as "Combat Arts will regenerate 368.5% faster than normal". So to get a multiplier we need to divide by 100 and add 1.
1 + (368.5/100) = 4.685 (the equivalent of a -78.6% regen time effect)

If we apply this to the previous example which ended up at 0.5 regenerations per second:
0.5 * 4.685 = 2.3425 regenerations per second
1 / 2.3425 = 0.4268 seconds regen time

 

Now the last thing I will explain is that the skill Concentration stacks additively with Focus skills. This is not obvious at all because you would think that if you had -70% from a Focus and -30% from Concentration you might achieve -100% regen time and eliminate regeneration times completely. But remember we are dealing with regeneration rates. So it works like this:

First convert them to rates like we did in the first example:
1 / (1 + -0.7) = 3.333
1 / (1 + -0.3) = 1.428

They are multipliers so we need to subtract 1 from each before we add them.
3.333 - 1 = 2.333 (233.3% faster regeneration)
1.428 - 1 = 0.428 (42.8% faster regeneration)

Now add them and add 1 again to make it a multiplier:
1 + 2.333 + 0.428 = 3.761

If we apply this to our previous example which ended at 2.3425 regenerations per second:
2.3425 * 3.761 = 8.812 regens per second
1 / 8.812 = 0.1134 seconds regen time

The result of this is that if you are already investing in an aspect's focus, the effect of concentration is far less than the listed amount. If you do the math (I did it with an unholy spreadsheet), you find that even with running two buffs you are probably better off putting your points into the two aspect focus skills rather than raising concentration. Obviously if you want three buffs you need to raise concentration, and it might be worthwhile if you are relying on skills from all three aspects, or if you have already maxed out you focus skills and still want lower regen times. But otherwise the benefit of raising the "highest level without penalty" will almost certainly outweigh the small regen time benefit from concentration.

Edited September 10, 2017 by BrainMuncher

[gogoblender 3,066]

Welcome to DarkMatters, BrainMuncher! (love the nic).  Unfortunately our forum went up for massive upgrades just when your post went up, and I dont want your post being lost in this shuffle.  I'm bumping up your post with this welcome and so that it gets more visibility.

Welcome to the boards!

 

gogo

[BrainMuncher 7]

Thanks gogo. I've got another piece of info to add.

One of the modifications for the Sinister Predator buff adds a regen time reduction for the Capricious Hunter aspect. If you think about it as a regeneration rate bonus rather than a regen time reduction, it is pretty simple to figure out.

My testing shows it is 30% + 1.5% per level faster regeneration. So for instance if you wanted to know what it would be with Sinister Predator at level 50, it would be:
30 + ( 1.5 * 50 ) = 105% faster

So in terms of a regeneration time reduction, that would be:
1 + (105/100) = 2.05
1 / 2.05 = 51.2195% regeneration time reduction

That would appear as "Regeneration time: Capricious Hunter -51.2%" in the bonus overview.

Edited September 10, 2017 by BrainMuncher

[gogoblender 3,066]

On 9/8/2017 at 7:49 AM, BrainMuncher said:

Thanks gogo. I've got another piece of info to add.

One of the modifications for the Sinister Predator buff adds a regen time reduction for the Capricious Hunter aspect. If you think about it as a regeneration rate bonus rather than a regen time reduction, it is pretty simple to figure out.

My testing shows it is 30% + 1.5% per level faster regeneration. So for instance if you wanted to know what it would be with Sinister Predator at level 50, it would be:

30 + ( 1.5 * 50 ) = 105% faster

So in terms of a regeneration time reduction, that would be:

1 + (105/100) = 2.05
1 / 2.05 = 51.2195% regeneration time reduction

That would appear as "Regeneration time: Capricious Hunter -51.2%" in the bonus overview.

You've put so much work down here Brain... if you'd like I can move this post from General Discussion into the Builds and Guides? This way it's location would give it accreditation as reference quality for the game.

 

gogo

[BrainMuncher 7]

I'll leave that up to you to decide where the best place for the thread is.

I've been trying to figure out the skill progressions, it's driving me crazy

[Amble 0]

When I first did the excel spreadsheet for building the regeneration time calculator I saw a lot of what you posted. But I will admit that my own testing before submitting it as a wiki page was limited to low levels.

The regeneration "bonus" you're supposed to use in the calculator is your aspect bonus that is shown in tool tip when you mouse over the aspect name on the combat arts panel.

This bonus, in my testing, showed expected changes from stamina distribution, concentration points spent, and appropriately spent focus skills as well as level ups.

I did not test high level characters nor high level CAs. I did spend CAs to level cap and find times don't diminish, only power.

The game does a lot of rounding when displaying the times and likely rounds and truncates decimal places in actual times but by how much, I don't know. The effects of rounding and truncation may become more pronounced as well as missing figures from my calculations as the numbers get larger with higher character and arte levels.

 

Edit:  I just looked at the wiki page and it does say in the instructions to use the stamina tool tip.  This will give incorrect calculations, as you pointed out.

Using the aspect regeneration bonus per the combat arte panel will give you the bonus to each specific CA after skills, stats, buffs, and gear, and is the value you're actually looking to use.

 

Here's some pictures that may help with the Wiki instructions.

Aspect regen bonus tooltip.  

 

Runes read, slotted, and resulting regen time.

 

Maybe someone with some wiki editing skills can insert the pictures to help with directions.  I've already updated the text.

Inputting this particular info into the calculator gives me a correct result of 0.538 seconds.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Amble