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Community Patch 1.60 Beta Test Release


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I think I agree with Androdion on this one. The only bugged functionality you could say the blacksmith has is the blacksmith arts being unremovable without selling and re-buying. Fixing that in the CM patch is great, anything else I think would go great in the enhanced edition.

However, similar to the discussion re CA rune stacking, I'm happy for the majority view point to be implemented, I realise there are a large number of people playing the game, and a number of people working on the patch who will all have different opinions.

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Well I can't talk Dmitriy out of ideas anymore, at some point I lost that ability, so I have will have to leave it to you guys to try to convince him.

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Oh, the change is well thought out:

 

Having socketed items destroyed was a feature ever since Sacred 1 - a feature, the majority obviously didn't like. That is why LAN cooperative saving trick was widely utilized, to deny the Lord of Random his due. In Sacred 2 the developers introduced the mastery chance of keeping items intact, but made it meager and not really worth the bother. Funny thing is, that if they upped the max. chance to 100% at top skill level, everyone would consider the Blacksmith skill to be a must have, thus reducing the variety of builds.

 

What's done is a best available compromise, derived from the English description of the skill. It states that item enhancements are subject to being destroyed. Well, rings and amulets are not, they are wearables. Blacksmith arts and damage converters are enhancements, with a catch, that a truly rare, or unique damage converter resists being destroyed. Runes are unique consumable enhancements, and as such, resist being destroyed.

 

The net result is, that players(and no, I can not in good faith imagine, that they don't do it) no longer have to use various chest and LAN tricks to ensure, that items, that matter, are safe. And there's a gold sink - they have to buy generic damage converters (and reforge arts with preferable properties, available in Enhanced Edition). And the Blacksmith skill is not obligatory for comfortable gameplay.

 

The purpose of Blacksmith Mastery is, as before, extra convenience and costs reduction, Blackmith Art's arribute scaling. But it's no longer paramount to achieve. Though in EE it's bound to be more important.

 

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Well I've never used LAN tricks for removing items, I just worked with what the game gave me. As in, socketing items I can't afford to loose together with items I can in fact loose, like unique+rare where the rare one would be something I can get latter on. And I think that's part of the beauty of the randomness, that you can't keep everything under your belt. Otherwise I'd just loose my head and socket +all skills together with +all skills and ignore every other modifier, because what's better than +all skills right?! The randomness of having items destroyed prevented me from being greedy and made me work with different modifiers.

Now if the idea is to have items always safe I can be as greedy as I want, and I just need to spend one single skill slot/point to do it, and since mastery just removes the cost but I can basically abuse +all skills either way, why would I need to spend any additional points in the skill?

After all is said and done I think that in practical terms this general skill will be abused if it's left this way, the same way the supposed LAN tricks are now. Except the first is a game feature while the later is players working around with what the game lets you do.

Like I said before, correcting bugs and adding additional loot is one thing, but changing game mechanics is a whole different thing, hence the term modding coming to my mind. And I've been playing Sacred 2 since 2009 by the way. ;)

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29 minutes ago, Androdion said:

+all skills and ignore every other modifier, because what's better than +all skills right?!

Can't say. Even with maxed out Bargaining and Enhanced Perception the +skills jewelry becomes not so common, once you have several pieces in inventory..

 

42 minutes ago, Androdion said:

why would I need to spend any additional points in the skill?

For mastery in it, naturally:) Of course, there are other skills which boni progression is subject to the same dilemma, like Alchemy.

 

45 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Except the first is a game feature while the later is players working around with what the game lets you do.

"At this point, what difference does it make?"(tm).:lol:

 

48 minutes ago, Androdion said:

but changing game mechanics is a whole different thing, hence the term modding coming to my mind.

You are correct, of course. But this here is QoL improvement, really.

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4 hours ago, Androdion said:

Well I've never used LAN tricks for removing items, I just worked with what the game gave me. As in, socketing items I can't afford to loose together with items I can in fact loose, like unique+rare where the rare one would be something I can get latter on. And I think that's part of the beauty of the randomness, that you can't keep everything under your belt. Otherwise I'd just loose my head and socket +all skills together with +all skills and ignore every other modifier, because what's better than +all skills right?! The randomness of having items destroyed prevented me from being greedy and made me work with different modifiers.

Now if the idea is to have items always safe I can be as greedy as I want, and I just need to spend one single skill slot/point to do it, and since mastery just removes the cost but I can basically abuse +all skills either way, why would I need to spend any additional points in the skill?

After all is said and done I think that in practical terms this general skill will be abused if it's left this way, the same way the supposed LAN tricks are now. Except the first is a game feature while the later is players working around with what the game lets you do.

Like I said before, correcting bugs and adding additional loot is one thing, but changing game mechanics is a whole different thing, hence the term modding coming to my mind. And I've been playing Sacred 2 since 2009 by the way. ;)

Oh my friend, you say my thoughts but better than I do.   I never found a place for the Blacksmith skill in any of my builds, and now that it's even less relevant, I doubt I ever will.

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15 hours ago, Flix said:

There's also a small change to throwing weapons.  Now, when you throw a star/potion/stone/dagger, the thrown projectile will have the elemental VFX just like the weapon in the character's hand.

There's actually a problem here. I was in the Carnach caves and after updating the files the elementals that throw rocks at you started throwing flaming projectiles, which is nice and all except for the fact that according to the enemy's graphic they only cause physical damage. So no effect should appear.

Worse than that is that the damage converters I have socketed are now broken. I'm dual-wielding a rare sword with a poison modifier and a Nlovae's Mystery with an ice modifier, and while the graphics appear correctly on the inventory the Nlovae now shoots bolts of fire instead of ice. Plus, when I hover on the weapons they both show as if no damage converter was socketed. :(

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1 hour ago, Androdion said:

There's actually a problem here. I was in the Carnach caves and after updating the files the elementals that throw rocks at you started throwing flaming projectiles, which is nice and all except for the fact that according to the enemy's graphic they only cause physical damage. So no effect should appear.

Worse than that is that the damage converters I have socketed are now broken. I'm dual-wielding a rare sword with a poison modifier and a Nlovae's Mystery with an ice modifier, and while the graphics appear correctly on the inventory the Nlovae now shoots bolts of fire instead of ice. Plus, when I hover on the weapons they both show as if no damage converter was socketed. :(

Same here, the Voodoo-Totem has the fire projectiles VFX when it is supposed to be poison, though the hit animation displays poisoning.

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:wizard:   POOF!

Reverted the download back to October 6th version, which was the last stable release before any of the Blacksmithing changes.

I'm saving skill overhauls for Enhanced Edition and D2F.  They're too radical for me to be comfortable with putting in the CM Patch, however insistent the justifications are.

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5 hours ago, Androdion said:

You can use a custom made LAN shopper ladder with Character Editor, as I've demonstrated in the past, and max out Bargaining as much as possible via Mutation sets and +all skills jewelry to have as many as you want. So in reality if you intend to you can use the game engine to have whatever you want from the game, this Forum's download section being the prime example of that. But that's people, fans, players toying with the limits of the game engine, which was made to work in a specific way (and yes I'm a bit traditional when it comes to that). There's really a lot that can be done without modding the game, that in theory you shouldn't be able to do, so that's that. And it's great that the game engine allows you to do even more, it is no doubt! But why not have it be part of a Mod when it clearly is "breaking the mould"? All players are allowed to use Character Editor as they see fit, I even made a guide for it and all, but it's an individual choice to do it or not. Here you're making changes to the core game an imposition that can only be ignored if you don't use said skill. In my honest opinion that's exactly where the line should be drawn. ;)

I even stated that I pretty much love the idea of "forging" being a thing, I believe it will give the game a whole new dimension if you're now suddenly able to craft and entire set of armour and weaponry specifically for you as a player. It's bloody awesome when you think of it! But... it's not part of the original game, nor its lore nor it's mechanics. Sorry but that's just how it is, never mind the fact that the game is pretty much "open source" nowadays. I'm traditional yes, and I'd like for key aspects of the game to be polished but not completely overhauled. That's the spirit of a "community patch". Adding features we think are cool but were never available is modding, pure and simple.

I'm sorry but I can't see this in any other way mate. I have the greatest respect for the work you've done so far, because "wow the game doesn't crash anymore and all that" which is a titanic feat in itself, but I think you're going overboard with this Blacksmithing overhaul.

:thumbsup:

 

gogo

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25 minutes ago, Flix said:

Reverted the download back to October 6th version, which was the last stable release before any of the Blacksmithing changes.

 

So what's the story on the projectiles VFX? Are they still being implemented (correctly that is)?

 

Also:

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To do a small summary so far, in case of a clean install the only additions that need to be made are "-nocpubinding -skipopenal" and "autoCollectRadius = 230,"? Since the physxExt pak file was changed is it still necessary to manually change those other instructions in the local options.txt or not?

 

Edited by Androdion
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10 minutes ago, Androdion said:

So what's the story on the projectiles VFX? Are they still being implemented (correctly that is)?

 

 

 

The Voodoo-Totem still shoots the fire projectiles, so nothing has changed with the bugged VFX, I guess.

 

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9 minutes ago, Androdion said:

So what's the story on the projectiles VFX? Are they still being implemented (correctly that is)?

Nope. I literally reverted the current version of the mod to October 6th.  Nothing after that date is going to be in effect in CM 1.60.

 

What options.txt settings are you asking about?  This is mine if you want to compare it to yours.

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Ok, got it. ;)

I meant these settings, I don't think there were any others:

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d_gpuSync = 1,

waitForGpuMode = 1,

 checkWorldPositions = 1,

 dxDetect = 1,

 enableMobilitySupport = 0,

 usePhysHW = 1,

 detail_physx = 0,

 

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2 hours ago, Androdion said:

still necessary to manually change those other instructions in the local options.txt or not?

detailPhysx can be left alone. usePhysHW should still be set to 1, I think.

 

2 hours ago, Androdion said:

but since it gets "stuck" on your mouse when you pick it up

Drop it outside of inventory. Into the world it goes;)

 

1 hour ago, Androdion said:

enemy's graphic they only cause physical damage. So no effect should appear.

 

1 hour ago, Androdion said:

So what's the story on the projectiles VFX? Are they still being implemented (correctly that is)?

I've got the issue under control - some improper checks were the cause.

 

1 hour ago, Flix said:

:wizard:   POOF!

Reverted the download back to October 6th version, which was the last stable release before any of the Blacksmithing changes.

"Haste makes waste" is the proverb applicable here, I believe, Ben. 

 

 

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2 further issues with the patch noticed:

1) elven guards spawning in the human territory at the inn next to the wall

2) the human NPC knife throwers (note thewrong fire projectile VFX) do not hit at all.

According to the info panel the NPC should have a hit chance of 32% on me, but I stood there and let him attack me abt. 20 times and ALL his knife throws were passing over my head.

This may indicate some problems with the increase in size of the humans rendering their aim now off target.

 

sacred2 2017-10-14 20-01-05.png

sacred2 2017-10-14 20-03-33.png

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This is really weird stuff.

After disabling the CM 0160 mod and re-enabling it again, the VFX issues are gone.

The humans throw knives again and not fire projectiles and are hitting me too and the voodoo totem spits normal bolts.

But there is something odd going on.

When I had disabled the mod earlier today and returned to the start island, the human blacksmith and human vendor were stunted in size.

That has not been the case before.

I realizes that I never had any issues with dwarf sized humans in the game as far back as I remember! They have always been about the same size as the elves for me.

This is so strange now.

 

 

sacred2 2017-10-14 21-39-27.jpg

Edited by jwiz
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