Modifying Drop Rates? To do or not to do...

[desm 329]

I have to interfere! Hooyaah! You who are so respectful and vertuous, why the hell do you encourage Jacek (or his evil brother) to cheat? I don't get it. Ok it can be time-saving, maybe funnier for some folks also but it's cheating!! Hopefuly I saw this :

Quote

This whole creative gaming is not my thing...I like to kill mobs to get the drop I want...ahh....the thrill is there....grinding and waiting....more waiting...even  more waiting damn  it and then BUM there u have it

and it's my way to see things too.

 

But I don't doubt that you'll have a reasonated reason for this and I will surely accept it lol

[Jacek 19]

Well...

I like balance. I like grinding. I know its all RNG but with limited time on my hands these day I would love to see a drop every now and then...

And with regular balance file untill clvl 30 on silver I got maybe 3 - 4 drops, mostly lousy

With this adjusted .txt file - I do not know exactly what was changed - now I can see a drop approx. every 2 hrs. And vendours also have slightly better offer.

Btw, when I say "a drop" I mean some good stuff I can actually use

This brought back The Spark to my Sacred 2 gaming and grinding....esp mow that I might have even less time.

Grinding aside....I remember back in the DILoD Day farming mephisto for a month straight only NOT to see the drop I wanted.

I know , I know now ... but when  it would finally drop it was the reward...ultimate reward  but again I have little time these days and WITHOUT changed balance it was just frustration and now it is fun again...

Of course I still do have to grind but at least rng seems to like me a little better.

Then again there is this ongoing eternal discussion about cheating and what it is...changing a single digit in the txt file from 2 to 3 for exampke is cheating even if this might bear no implication on actual gameplay?

But otoh....someone mighylt say if u choose to change it why not from 2 to 2000 and get the ultimate drop every time a mob is killed?

Where does one draw a line?

And again installing community patches fixing some bugs the fevs dud not care about....but maybe they did care and the game was designed like this...

Anyway...if this is not for competitive purposes o believe everyone shall play the game they fancy.

Lije DIII if u make it to leaderboards with 22hrs of botting a day it is lame and it is cheating...

But if u dont compete if its only u vs machine who cares...your game your fun.

I know ppl for whom definition of fun is to have the bot running 20 hrs straight and then in the morning with a glass of coffe quickle see what was collected leave for work set the bot running again and repeat ad nausea...but if yhey like it what impact does it have on me?

Anyway...I wouldnt even consider it playing but if this is what tickles their fancy.....

I like grinding. I like actually playing the game. But I also want it to be a nice relaxing experience and not a frustrating one with all this frustration in everyday life.

In the pm when wife daughter are asleep and I have this hr just for myself I want to chill out...and if I happen to play for 2 hrs without any reward it is frustrating.

But now I can see a drop  a little mor often.

Fun and interest in game have been revived

I dont know if all of this makes much sense and is very coherent but im on my mobile in bed with a damn flu feeling like...I was grinding for a year without any good drop

 

 

[desm 329]

Yes, I can hear the time-gaining argument (a little bit); on the other hand, the excuse 'your game your fun' is not receivable for me (I've heard it many time don't worry). There are rules and they, for me, have to be respected. Cheating is just killing the game. But I know, I'm very pernickety on this (one may surely say 'killjoy'). I don't want to re-debate, play like you wish; my wish was not to re-open a debate.

 

BTW, it's normal that you don't find much loot on Silver; expect them on harder difficulties.

Edited December 30, 2017 by desm

[Jacek 19]

Balance

Someone like u needs to be so that someone like me can exist ...gamewise of course

We keep the balance in the games universe

Guardians of balance....

Well...I will stop here as I feel temoerature is setting in

Now can of energy drink  some aspirin and maybe an hour of grinding

Cheers

 

[desm 329]

Cheers, have fun (I had to say what I was thinking about that, sorry)

[Hooyaah 2,818]

11 hours ago, desm said:

I have to interfere! Hooyaah! You who are so respectful and vertuous, why the hell do you encourage Jacek (or his evil brother) to cheat? I don't get it. Ok it can be time-saving, maybe funnier for some folks also but it's cheating!! Hopefuly I saw this :

and it's my way to see things too.

 

But I don't doubt that you'll have a reasonated reason for this and I will surely accept it lol

I understand what your concerns are Denis. You do not feel that it is appropriate to alter the game files in any way and I appreciate that. However, is changing options.txt to get a better camera view wrong? Is it wrong (I will use an analogy) for a woman to wear makeup? It that "cheating?" Let us look at the word, cheat (borrowed from dictionary.com).

Cheat

verb (used with object)

1.to defraud; swindle: He cheated her out of her inheritance.

2.to deceive; influence by fraud: He cheated us into believing him a hero.

3.to elude; deprive of something expected: He cheated the law by suicide.

verb (used without object)

4.to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets.

5.to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.

6. to take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.

7. Informal. to be sexually unfaithful (often followed by on): Her husband knew she had been cheating all along. He cheated on his wife.

noun

8. a person who acts dishonestly, deceives, or defrauds: He is a cheat and a liar.

9. a fraud; swindle; deception: The game was a cheat.

10. Law. the fraudulent obtaining of another's property by a pretense or trick.

11. an impostor: The man who passed as an earl was a cheat.

To cheat, one must cause harm, foul, injury, or wrong to someone or something, or a law, etc. In the case of altering a balance file to allow a player to have an enhanced experience is causing no harm, quite the opposite, in my estimation. If there were a competition, however, where one player had an amended balance file and at least one other did not, cheating would be an accurate descriptor. This fact notwithstanding, it is up to ones own conscience and preference to make a determination whether or not to enhance the game in whatever manner. Mods alter the game and even the CM Patch alters the game. Where do we draw the line? Again, the answer lies within each player. Were we to be competing with one another directly, as in a Multiplayer game, we would all need to be playing with the exact same game version, patch, and all the files identical, so as not to allow any one an advantage or disadvantage. If a person feels that they are cheating themselves to the pristine game experience by playing with any alterations then they should act accordingly. I am neither in favor of altering the game nor am I opposed to it. Whatever one decides, however, I encourage discretion and moderation with any change or changes one makes.

 

[lujate 575]

This reminds me of an offline discussion from years ago. The topic was whether using a technique to duplicate items, and could be described as an exploit, was cheating in an offline game. I think the "cheat" camp would point to verb #5, possibly 6 or 4.

For offline games, I say "To thine own self be true."

[desm 329]

Quote

Again, the answer lies within each player.

If a person feels that they are cheating themselves to the pristine game experience by playing with any alterations then they should act accordingly.

I knew you would have good explanations anyway lol But where does all that start? Education? "Innate awareness"? Experience? I'm judging unfair to play with different rules even for singleplayers games (it's frustrating for someone who follows the rules to see them flouted by "naughties". That reminds me that it didn't happen when there was no internet and that you were playing "alone" on your side without knowing what the rest of the world was doing with the game) but again you're right with the custom camera, it's cheating indeed... I can imagine that this is the logical development! Anyway, let's enjoy Sacred! Have a good time playing Jacek

[rm3000 85]

Usually, I don't like such things either. On the other hand, one could even question the application of patches with this line of thouhgt, but at least bug fixing is a reasonable explanation.

However, in this case I might be convinced by the time factor. What I'm saying is: games such as Sacred do require a rather big amount of time. And with all the things most of us have to do all day, there isn't much time left to play (as Jacek already mentioned). So, either one spends yet another chunk of time to look for a faster paced/progressing game (which then would probably be rather different form Sacred) or ... And since there's no competition to be seen aynwhere, the only person that I would cheat is me.

And there's another point: the files are just plain text, and I'm guessing the creators did surely see the possibility and ease of changing such a file. And since they didn't do anything about it, maybe they were ok with it. Or perhaps they even intended to encourage it, but that's a little wild. Whatever the intention, simply looking at the files helps to better understand the inner workings of this game, which is a huge time saver in itself.

Well, I may be overthinking this. 'No harm done' is sufficient for me.

[Jacek 19]

Guys...I wouldn't have phrased it all better

Actually now I cannot phrase anything properly as this damn flu is really getting to us  whole family  

Definition as it is but we all seem to perceive things from our own perspective and apply different interpretation or simply our subjective feelings or see things through our own personal experience... 

In DIII for example - after a week or so I can get...everyone can get..all the BiS items for a given toon - maybe not ancient or with best possible stats but still...u get adjusted drops - for your class, cube, kadala, so with little investment of time I could easily get for example all the uber gear for my HotA barb, including the elusive little rouge and slenderer

Thats the way the game is build and tbh this RNG in SII was really getting on the wrong side of me but now it is all better

And I prefer SII better  esp now as we  arrived at this orcish territory - awesome  

So - thx for the help with the .txt file Hooyaah - u help to bring the fun back to my / our game 

Happy new year guys 

[gogoblender 3,069]

On 12/30/2017 at 3:21 PM, desm said:

I knew you would have good explanations anyway lol But where does all that start? Education? "Innate awareness"? Experience? I'm judging unfair to play with different rules even for singleplayers games (it's frustrating for someone who follows the rules to see them flouted by "naughties". That reminds me that it didn't happen when there was no internet and that you were playing "alone" on your side without knowing what the rest of the world was doing with the game) but again you're right with the custom camera, it's cheating indeed... I can imagine that this is the logical development! Anyway, let's enjoy Sacred! Have a good time playing Jacek

Gaming has been transformed

 ...not for a bad thing... but for a larger more encomapassing world.

When HC was created tech limits meant that that was created could only be used along one play vector, one experience. 

this means you play a game out of a box... anything else is cheating.

As such, it leant itself to a single modal conception of playing.  One Game, one purpose, everyone being able to refer to all other players, game is god and imposes limits, and when you die...you really die   

 When a plethora of tools became availalbe especially since Sacred 2...the paradigm shift occurred. 

Now... there was not just a main game, that single main game to rule them all which we all loved because it was so simple and easy^^...

Now... the game was able to be played interpretative by components. 

HC component...SC component... SP component... sp HC component... and finally, when the tech had finally reach its zenith of perfection... the ability to have what could still be called a gaming experience but more akin as a spread sheet game.  Each game would consist of a person looking at his kingly board of options, mods and clickety buttons... and click upon any buttons that they wish to see how the mod would work...and how far they could create something from the original game as possible... lets say by changing all their clothes... portable portals that only work once per life time, finally... a suit that when you hits it shoots out gold coins   

Desm, for a while I was also using the word cheater.  I even remember thinking that "cheating" was something that everyone who was NOT in HC did too!  

It as only when I came to understand that tech has almost completely changed how this game is  1 - understood 2- played

And this is because of perceived and chosen time constraints. 

And because of that I gave up my word of "cheating"

For it meant only that someone else wasn't playing the way I wanted them to play.

I'd say the word of cheater would be relevant tween a closed group gamers, lets say during a desk top game, and someone is caught putting an extra 500 bill up his sleeve.  that would be cheating for me because we are contravening agreed upon rules  There really isn't any HC servers anymore and there are no more contravening agreed upon rules  ...therefore those gentleman agreements don't exist. anymore..

For now, traveling through space and time to earth to show us her ways and find peace in our transformation. ...in all of her infinite wisdom and glory, and cruel cruel power... 

Shiva has arrived 

Shiva has found us...

and in her infinitely beautiful and cruel wisdom has released many many years enjoyment with this game.. not in its original form of course, where, as in a sports team, cheating meant something because of leader boards and status..but with the eegress of the leader boards and the dropping of HC ., the games became one of ultimate delights in finding new ways of adding to the game, perhaps immigrating new races... new quests? new items? , change jewel colors, make weapons with intelligence and that be lewd, the options are endless... Sacred Base Game is so robust and, as Flix says, so easy to work with  when it comes to identify game ids and then working with it.  I think that the antiquarian word "cheat" was relevant back a few years ago during the advent of gaming ...but now, besides the vanilla run through of what the game originally offered, there's the MUCH larger realm of...modding... an exciting new marriage between" old school one game for all thinking to Lets build a Sacred that's going to be a great game (10 percent above the iceberg)  this former last what...a year?   And the other part of Sacred...the Iceberg analogy serves well here... 9/10ths under water...

That 9 10th under water is where these huge new mods are coming from... massive worlds heretofore  thought impossible. and lost to the dark maw of cold space never to return.. and yet one of the largest mods in this planet is worked on daily to get to that excting end mark. by Flix and his team

WE promise to  find love for everyone here

and we will help you find the mode of sacred that bests complements you for your journey to the warm light of Sacred! 

gogo

 

[Hooyaah 2,818]

I thought that I would make on other point that has not been properly addressed. Due to the fact that so much has been added to the game since the time of its "vanilla" roots it is no longer likely to "find" complete set items as it once was. I recall playing the Seraphim long ago, waiting until I finally got the final piece to a unique set of armor. It was so exciting! Now, because there are so many new set of armor, weapons, and other items that can drop in the game it's very unlikely to have a full set of unique armor unless it's a mixture of levels and perhaps something that was traded from one character to another via the shared chest. That's one reason why having a download section is such a blessing.

One option that could address this situation would be to finally allow certain sets or armor, jewelry, and weapons to be sold by "special" merchants. In this way, players could purchase certain set items and these particular set items could be removed from possible in game drops so that it would make it more likely for other sets to be collected as well. Additionally, certain difficult quests, or a series or related or chain quests could be engineered to drop a full set and certain other items as rewards.

[desm 329]

I hate the idea that I did a thread called 'Cheating?' lol

 

Happy new year dear Sacred fans, may the God of Loot be with you!

[Androdion 877]

Don't sweat it Desm, I don't think that anyone's picking on you. It's more like people are expressing themselves the same way you did before.

I for one have also come to terms with the word cheating because yeah, it's really difficult to define a game's boundaries when the source code is right there in a customisable TXT file. I've never adjusted balance.txt or anything, but yet I've gone as far as changing the predefined camera settings, making level 2 Niobium shoppers or even level 75 Niobium blank toons with Character Editor. But then again I've also grown away from using those types of resources and now I'm playing bargainers "for real", though you could argue that I'd need to start each and every one in the ladder again and again instead of playing one save game, copy-paste/park it at a level and then continue playing again. But when I look at it I'm not circumventing the rules per se, I just don't see the point in starting over at level one again and again when I'll play it the exact same way. All of this to say that probably most of us are cheaters in a way, but I believe that when people are as devoted to a game as it shows here no one's actually cheating. If that makes sense.

Hooyaah usually posts videos of a Niobium HE which levels everything with Glacial Thorns and I don't see anyone going after him because of having almost +600 in All Skills. In fact people like to see the effect of GT hitting that hard when it's pushed that far out. But we also don't see him boasting around that his build is "the best eva" or anything, mainly because he knows that he couldn't achieve that result without modifications as he uses. So I guess that it's a matter of balance here, since the "cheating" most of us do is in order to get more fun with the game by ourselves and not to be the kings of the hill.

That's my take on it, I don't think that anyone's "cheating" their way into anything but their own personal fun.