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Jostabeere

A lot of (probably dumb) questions about a Temple Guardian build.

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Jostabeere    2

So this is the best place I could ask this I feel. It's the most active community for Sacred 1/2 (3 never happened).

I play Sacred 1 to this day and all characters I played were either mages or classes that used combat skills rather than melee/ranged combat. And all of them used stat-sticks instead of weapons I actually used in combat. Like Dwarf-lore Dwarf, Poison-Demon, Mage, Poison-thingy Dark Elf, skills-only Elf and so on.

I decided to play the Temple Guardian because it's the closest thing to the Dwarf from S1. It has a Flamethrower, a cannon, a beam, can smith stuff and so on.

And I am wondering about these things:

Can I play a TG just skilled in Lost Fusion Lore? Compared to S1 5 skills feel a bit lackluster to make a build with. Or do I have to opt into Source Warden aswell for surviveability/support skills?

I'm not to keen on using buffs because they make the regeneration of skills much slower. Is it going to be better when I get higher?

Can I take 2 skill trees (Lost Fusion and Source Warden) and be effective, or do I lose combat effectivity because of other skills I should rather take? And if 2 trees are a good choice, which special mount should I get? They're specialized in 1 tree as far as I know.

All the skills feel really slow and sluggish. The Flamethrowers for example has a too long animation for what it actually does. Or the cannon skill has a way too slow travel speed so enemies can just walk out of it. Will this change as soon as I get higher?

I remember that a lot of skills like the Flamethrower from S1 had a 100% chance to hit. Was this changed? How does the Sacred 2 pendant works? Enemies just walk through the fire and don't get damaged quite often.

Do I have to take a weapon lore skill? It seems I do if I want to have bonuses on weapons. If I use spells mainly, is a staff the best option? What are the best stat-sticks for a TG?

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gogoblender    1,608

Man, I wish I had the patience to tough it out with a TG Build.  I think I just got one to a lowby level just as part of my trading network and gave up on it after that...I never really had the patience to keep it up with the then mystery mechanics at the time, and a lot of the execution of the CA's like the bouncing bullets never really hit it off with me.  I do know though that some of the members have have produced mesmerizing, uber powerful buillds that are powerful boss killers and rewarding to play.  Hoping a member here with more experience in TG building tech expertise will be able to post some good info for you.

:)

 

gogo

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desm    202

I've only played melee TG but I will try to answer to some questions as the forum is quite calm atm and maybe some others will come to complete.

1. I think you can play only with Lost Fusion; you can find some videos on youtube showing it.

2. You have to take at least one buff; the benefits are rewarding. You can't play a char without at least one buff I think.

3. You can choose a second skill tree of course, maybe to take a second buff at least. For the mount I think you will have to privilege the one in which you are the more skilled.

4. I don't know for the Flamethrowers.

5. Check the Wiki, it's the best http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Temple_Guardian

6. Staves for TG, rarely seen that, I don't know if it's even possible (2 handed staves surely not; maybe it has changed with latest cm patch)

 

To be completed... :)

 

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Woody    12

Hi

 

I'll try to give some additional help on this, however I'd strongly recommend first reading Vaclaf's LF TG builds for both I&B and CM-patch, this is where you'll likely find most of the answers you're seeking for about this build, if not done already. Mechanix X-E for Ice&Blood / Mechanix Omega-TX for CM-patch

You'll also find his videos on his YT channel here.

 

The game allows you pretty much to do anything you want with your build, be it that you use only one or more aspects. As desm said above, you can play purely with Lost Fusion, it'll work, but you can also add Devout guardian mainly for it's energy shield (as you can see in Vaclaf's builds), or Source warden for debuffs (For example you can use Fiery Ember to reduce your opponent's armor against Fire damage before using Flamethrower, and even their attack speed if using the right mod) and eventually damage, it's up to you.

 

Quote

I'm not to keen on using buffs because they make the regeneration of skills much slower. Is it going to be better when I get higher?

The answer isn't only for this question in particular - everything you do will get better as you level up, as you'll slowly increase your skills and get better gear. Most builds at start of the game, have horrible regen time and damage on CAs and you need to kill with your weapon until some time when you get a good balance between regen time and damage.

Also worth mentionning it gets much better when you have a character with Bargaining to support with +All skills jewelry and some other useful goodies - Blacksmith skill helps as well but as I understand you're already using it, which is great.

 

Skills can be cast quicker if you increase your casting speed by either spending points on corresponding aspect Lore skill or use +xx% cast times bonus on items (mostly on rings), keep in mind the maximum is 150% cast speed. 

I think like all magic-based CAs the flame thrower has 100% hit chance, it's use is just tricky because of it's bad range, quoting Vaclaf on this one :

Quote

 

- Pure fire damage against kobolds, undeads, animals and other enemies without fire resistance. You have to learn the right time and position for using Emblazer.

- Flamethrower is your very powerful CA againts almost all mobs you face to. Learn how to use it - it is your main middle range killing power - move on battlefield, create large group on enemies, use your advantage from 150% run speed and start burning. Yeah, with mastery of DL this is devastating and very satisfying:-)"

 

 

You should always use the mount that's dedicated to your main aspect as it gives a regen time reduction bonus.

 

For you weapon of choice I'll once again redirect you to Vaclaf's builds, and add that you don't need to pick any weapon skill for your build.

 

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Jostabeere    2

Well, thanks for the replies.

I figured out my issue isn't about not knowing the TG, but not knowing the games general mechanics.

I see bargaining is a huge skill. I'll definitely gonna take it.

And I also see things I don't like will get better.

Maybe I'm too used to the first game where you could become really strong in the early levels where you already got armor pieces with stuff like "+100% regeneration special move" and in Sacred 2 I barely find anything that has stats at all. And have to buy stuff that is like "+2 endurance" for a lot of money.

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gogoblender    1,608
56 minutes ago, Jostabeere said:

Well, thanks for the replies.

 

I see bargaining is a huge skill. I'll definitely gonna take it.

 

Bargainin's almost a "must have" for a build to be competivie in this game... near the end, a lot of of players ended up having trading networks comprised of trader builds left along key levels... this way that trader that you "met" on that level could do the shopping you needed for your build...sublimating the need for choosing trading and winning yourself a "bonus" skill pick

 A handy  and very useful feat of magic

 

gogo

p.s. @ Woody and Desm...thank you guys! :hugs:

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Flix    3,109

Lost Fusion isn't bad, it's just so vastly eclipsed by the power of Devout Guardian and Source Warden aspects.  There's a reason so many mods make changes to Lost Fusion to try to beef up its power.

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desm    202
15 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

And have to buy stuff that is like "+2 endurance" for a lot of money.

+2 endurance will not save you while a lot of healing potions yes. That was the sentence of the day :sun:

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Jostabeere    2
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, desm said:

+2 endurance will not save you while a lot of healing potions yes. That was the sentence of the day :sun:

What? Endurance is for special moves regen speed, isn't it?

Edited by Jostabeere

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desm    202

Of course you're right lol. What I meant is that, in early beginning of the game, the healing potions will be much more effective than buying expensive equipement. In self-drop, I assimilate sometimes Sacred 2 to a "health bar gestion game" by spamming the space bar.

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chattius    777

Jostabeere...

Yummy, have to try a Josta-berry cake with the frozen ones we still have. Welcome to the forum by the way. The most fun with a temple guardian was when I made a spikes build and played without a battery. With a battery the TG tries to shoot, without battery the TG runs to the target for melee combat . And once in melee range you don't need faster regeneration. All you need is to hit and some items with regeneration per hit.

Some problems vanish with a high enough level. My level 200 dragon mage mentalist started with melee combat and a summoning elementals every 10 seconds. Around level 20 I had the first items with regeneration per hit. It was like 3 melee attacks on one spell till level 50. Then it was melee hit, spell, melee hit spell and I started to go away from summoning and used attack spells, with more levels I put more levels into the spell.

At level 100 the spell had 200 runes read in and was still recharged with one hit.

Then I added items which increased combat art range. 40% more range is like 1,4*1,4= twice the area covered with a spell. At level 13ß or so I removed all my regeneration per hit gear and went for 100% chance to halve regeneration times and played as a pure just spells character.

 

I try to have a plan for my characters to have long time fun. Melee, melee hybrid with summoning, melee hybrid with area attacks, just area attacks: four different play styles in one character instead 4 characters.

And now to the cake, perhaps this one?

2016-07-13.jpg

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gogoblender    1,608
13 hours ago, chattius said:

Jostabeere...

Yummy, have to try a Josta-berry cake with the frozen ones we still have. Welcome to the forum by the way. The most fun with a temple guardian was when I made a spikes build and played without a battery. With a battery the TG tries to shoot, without battery the TG runs to the target for melee combat . And once in melee range you don't need faster regeneration. All you need is to hit and some items with regeneration per hit.

Some problems vanish with a high enough level. My level 200 dragon mage mentalist started with melee combat and a summoning elementals every 10 seconds. Around level 20 I had the first items with regeneration per hit. It was like 3 melee attacks on one spell till level 50. Then it was melee hit, spell, melee hit spell and I started to go away from summoning and used attack spells, with more levels I put more levels into the spell.

At level 100 the spell had 200 runes read in and was still recharged with one hit.

Then I added items which increased combat art range. 40% more range is like 1,4*1,4= twice the area covered with a spell. At level 13ß or so I removed all my regeneration per hit gear and went for 100% chance to halve regeneration times and played as a pure just spells character.

 

I try to have a plan for my characters to have long time fun. Melee, melee hybrid with summoning, melee hybrid with area attacks, just area attacks: four different play styles in one character instead 4 characters.

And now to the cake, perhaps this one?

2016-07-13.jpg

heh, this is awesome Chattius... referencing Sacred 2 tech builds with delicious deserts

formidable!

:chef:

gogo

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Jostabeere    2
8 hours ago, gogoblender said:

heh, this is awesome Chattius... referencing Sacred 2 tech builds with delicious deserts

formidable!

:chef:

gogo

It's a reference to ny nickname and not TG builds.

 

So, now I see how different this is compared to Sacred 1 and I wish it wasn't like it. I'll definitely stick to my ranged skills plan simply because I dislike melee characters in Sacred if the melee system is anywhere close to the first game. And it looks like that.

And I try to get deeper into the mechanics in general.

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Jostabeere    2

Hope this isn't dead yet.

I got a couple of new questions:

1.How do I exactly find items with "regeneration time: -x"? So far I found only 1, and it's a unique one I assume. The Drumstick

2. What is the use of Special class mounts? They seem to give me even longer cooldowns. Are they only useful when paired with the Riding skill?

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Woody    12
Posted (edited)

You can find regeneration time -xx% bonus randomly on many rares, bargaining helps with that, but also set items, uniques (ex. Tinwora's curse), and you can also use blacksmith to put enhance arts (it gives reg time -xx% and crit hits +xx%, but be aware that critical hits modifiers from equipment doesn't affect spells).

 

Special class mounts allow you to use combat arts - which you can't on classic horses. The regeneration penality will be less noticable later, Riding isn't the best skill pick if you can get something more useful instead for your build.

 

btw @chattius : that cake looks so tasty...

Edited by Woody

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chattius    777

I used to buy a new mount when the old one got too high in levels. Horses and mounts level up with you, and they level up faster. So there is a point when their level is too high: more negatives (lot +reg time) than positives (few more hitpoints).

@woody

Our village owns a baking house which is heated once a week. You can't compare the taste of a cake from a baking house with the same cake from an oven. Young village kids use to ask everyone who is doing a cake if they can get a bit of it. So people normally do twice or thrice the cakes they would normally do. People who are ill get their share. Wood is collected by the older kids, which has the nice side effect that their is less danger for forest fire if there is no dry wood near to the village.

 

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Jostabeere    2
Posted (edited)

So I just realized I can farm an unlimited amount of attribute and skill points with LAN games. This can't be an actual part of the game, can it?

 

Also. Is there a guide somewhere on TG combat arts modifications, or an "all character combat arts ideal modifications"?

I am really unsure what to pick every time. I made a second TG for a bargaining purpose who focuses on Devout Guardian. For example Battle Extension. Bronze has chance for double strike or more damage. I don't know which one to pick. I can get more damage later on anyway, but I also can get more chance for the double strike with skills. Same goes for a lot of combat arts. I just don't know what is better and what becomes obsolete later on. The wiki does give a little bit insight on what it would pick, but it doesn't explain the choice and quite a few times it doesn't say what to pick.

Oh, and another one rather basic question. How do I make a lot of cash? My bargaining TG reaches the point where still rather mediocre weapons and armor pieces cost 5 to 6 digit. Just killing stuff and selling everything is just not enough. Is there a way to earn 6-digit numbers of gold in relatively short time?

 

Edited by Jostabeere

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Augmint    81

Can't give good advice on TG combat arts as I don't use him, but for cash - farm the orc cave.

 

 

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Androdion    320
12 hours ago, Jostabeere said:

So I just realized I can farm an unlimited amount of attribute and skill points with LAN games. This can't be an actual part of the game, can it?

 

Also. Is there a guide somewhere on TG combat arts modifications, or an "all character combat arts ideal modifications"?

I am really unsure what to pick every time. I made a second TG for a bargaining purpose who focuses on Devout Guardian. For example Battle Extension. Bronze has chance for double strike or more damage. I don't know which one to pick. I can get more damage later on anyway, but I also can get more chance for the double strike with skills. Same goes for a lot of combat arts. I just don't know what is better and what becomes obsolete later on. The wiki does give a little bit insight on what it would pick, but it doesn't explain the choice and quite a few times it doesn't say what to pick.

Oh, and another one rather basic question. How do I make a lot of cash? My bargaining TG reaches the point where still rather mediocre weapons and armor pieces cost 5 to 6 digit. Just killing stuff and selling everything is just not enough. Is there a way to earn 6-digit numbers of gold in relatively short time?

 

LAN sessions allow you to redo quests over and over again, so if you happen to do Ancaria Airlines over and over again the end result is a bunch of free attribute and skill points. Now if you do it or not it's your choice alone, if it "feels right or not" it's your choice alone. I usually only use LAN sessions to do Guardian runs to farm items, which the game also allows you to do.

Most CA modification choices depend on your play style and what kind of choices you do will be related to your progression. Most of the time there isn't a best pick for each situation, it really depends on what your end goal is. So again it falls down to personal choice. The Wiki does state what your choices are, but it doesn't do them for you. ;) Start a toon, make some picks and see if it works well with your play style, and if not you can always play again and learn from your mistakes. I've planned toons by the millimetre only to realize that I've adapted my play style over time to different situations and realized I should've made different choices. It happens, it's part of the fun of trying out the game over and over again.

If you want to make instant millions you'll need a Platinum/Niob toon feeding your low level bargainer with high-level rare/uniques via the shared chest. Preferably weapons since armour usually sells for a lot less.

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Jostabeere    2
1 hour ago, Androdion said:

LAN sessions allow you to redo quests over and over again, so if you happen to do Ancaria Airlines over and over again the end result is a bunch of free attribute and skill points. Now if you do it or not it's your choice alone, if it "feels right or not" it's your choice alone. I usually only use LAN sessions to do Guardian runs to farm items, which the game also allows you to do.

Most CA modification choices depend on your play style and what kind of choices you do will be related to your progression. Most of the time there isn't a best pick for each situation, it really depends on what your end goal is. So again it falls down to personal choice. The Wiki does state what your choices are, but it doesn't do them for you. ;) Start a toon, make some picks and see if it works well with your play style, and if not you can always play again and learn from your mistakes. I've planned toons by the millimetre only to realize that I've adapted my play style over time to different situations and realized I should've made different choices. It happens, it's part of the fun of trying out the game over and over again.

If you want to make instant millions you'll need a Platinum/Niob toon feeding your low level bargainer with high-level rare/uniques via the shared chest. Preferably weapons since armour usually sells for a lot less.

Well, I assume if it's still available after a lot of patches by devs and the CM, it's fine to use it. I'm always up to use and cheese any legal methods in games which are a core of the game, so I'll use it to boost some skills.

Yeah. My main issue about the mods is I don't know how the mid or even late game looks like. For example the Flamethrower. Do I even need the damage? I could have enough damage in midgame. Do I need the stagger? I could have something else to stagger. Or the buffs. I have no idea what is necessary later on and what becomes obsolete because of skills/items.

Well, all my characters are between 10 and 20, so no Niob items. And I doubt you can reach Niob in Sacred 2 as easy as in S1. I have a Dwarf there at level 140, who finished Niob starting it with 90.

 

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Woody    12

Not much to add to the replies above, however I recommend you also read contents of the Temple guardian build section if not already done, where you can find a lot of player-made guides for different aspects. Also as said before, you can find in this same section the 3 Lost Fusion TG guides (from base game to CM-patch) from Vaclaf, which cover a lot of questions about it. Then it's your choice to follow or not what's recommended in these guides.

Repeating a quest giving skillpoints/attributes over and over mostly defeats the purpose of leveling a character, but what you do for yourself is your choice, too.

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Androdion    320

Actually Ancaria Airlines is a quest introduced by the CM Patch (don't know which iteration), so take that as you will. Only adding that you'll only know what the end game is when you reach the end game, no other way around it. But in general terms I can tell you that weapon-based builds/CAs have bigger damage variation from your base weapon rather than the corresponding lore skill, which can still be boosted via +All Skills jewellery. Magic-based builds/CAs will mostly require a lot of emphasis on both focus and lore skills to be effective later on, as well as Ancient Magic which boost spell damage big time.

So again, modifications have to do with how you intend to use the CAs, with how you attack/defend, with how you configure combos, etc. It's down to personal style really. And in Niob as long as you can cause enough damage and have enough protection (armour, damage mitigation, spell resistance, etc. etc.) you won't be such an easy prey as you're anticipating. Sure, enemies scale a lot, but so does your toon and its skills. Don't be afraid of the dark. ;)

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Jostabeere    2
Posted (edited)

Wow. I figured out how good combos actually are in Sacred 2. In S1 you had insane recharge times. Like... 10-20 minutes long... And in Sacred 2 they are the recharge of the longer skill only? Wow.

On the other hand, I can't use the same skill twice. A bummer.

Edited by Jostabeere

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Woody    12
Posted (edited)

Yes, combo recharge time is calculated from the CA which has the longest recharge time in the combo.

Combat Discipline gives you an additionnal 10% recharge time reduction and allows you to use 3 skills in a combo, and 20%/4 skills at mastery. Though this reduction won't be applied to skills cooldowns (such as Fiery Ember for example, it's 15s base cooldown won't get reduced when placed in a combo, only it's regeneration time).

 

A common usage of combos when using Combat Discipline is to use combos for single skills just for the reduced CA recharge. Another difference from S1 is that your CAs placed in combos get their level updated as you go, no need to manually update the combo every time.

Edited by Woody

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Jostabeere    2
3 hours ago, Woody said:

Yes, combo recharge time is calculated from the CA which has the longest recharge time in the combo.

Combat Discipline gives you an additionnal 10% recharge time reduction and allows you to use 3 skills in a combo, and 20%/4 skills at mastery. Though this reduction won't be applied to skills cooldowns (such as Fiery Ember for example, it's 15s base cooldown won't get reduced when placed in a combo, only it's regeneration time).

 

A common usage of combos when using Combat Discipline is to use combos for single skills just for the reduced CA recharge. Another difference from S1 is that your CAs placed in combos get their level updated as you go, no need to manually update the combo every time.

The mechanics are weird to be honest. Unlike S1 not using more than 1 CA for 90% of CAs... Combos only having fixed cooldown from skills and so on.

I remember stacking a lot of CAs in S1 to create crazy powerful builds like Rotating Blade Seraphim and so on.

Also. Is there any way to make all CAs leech life? I found some items with Life leecher per hit (a ring, a battery and a staff) but they only affect the staff, and no CAs.

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