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bassgun

Advice on spell caster setups

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I am playing the high elf and I was wondering whether is my planned skill setup for high elf and any caster builds from other classes good or not for the game as a whole

here is what I have planned:

1.aspect lore skill

2.aspect focus skill

3.concentration

4.combat discipline

5.ancient magic

6.tactics lore

7.lore skills for whatever weapons I intend to give to my current caster class(eg. for high elf I am using an arrant pyromancer build and I am making high elf use mage staffs)

8.constitution

9.armor lore

10. whatever defense skill that I can try to give depending on my caster class( as well as whether or not I installed sacred 2 enhanced edition mod)

Please let me know if the skills are fine or do I have to replace any one of them for whatever reason. Thanks!

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Hi bassgun.

For a pure caster you might not need Tactics and/or Weapon Lore skill since your damage comes  from spell damage based CA's.
This would free up two skill slots, e.g. for a general skill.

If you require a specific item bonus unlocked by a Waepon Lore skill you can consider taking it.

Besides that it is a solid single aspect caster setup from my perspective, just take armor earlier.

Cheers

Edited by ameaeth

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When selecting skills for a caster it is most effective to disregard any that aid with weapons-based builds. 

Below is a guide that should aid in understanding why certain skills are best suited for casters as opposed to weapons-based builds. Also, the modifications of the Combat Arts are important and the details of what suits a High Elf Mystic Stormite are detailed here. The basic skills may be employed similarly for other casting character builds and for the same reasons. It is important to offer ones toon plenty of protection, combined with a devastating attack, so as to stave off any significant damage from enemies, particularly strong bosses.

Specifically, to address your query, I would substitute Defensive Skills in favor of Tactics Lore and a Weapon Skill. Additionally, a balance in offense and defense is important from the beginning in order to keep your character safe from damage as mentioned above. Also it is very important to keep the regeneration time of your Combat Arts quick so that you can devastate enemies before they do you serious harm. A carefully constructed and closely monitored build should prevent one from the need of using health potions in most situations, if ever at all.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Hooyaah said:

When selecting skills for a caster it is most effective to disregard any that aid with weapons-based builds. 

Below is a guide that should aid in understanding why certain skills are best suited for casters as opposed to weapons-based builds. Also, the modifications of the Combat Arts are important and the details of what suits a High Elf Mystic Stormite are detailed here. The basic skills may be employed similarly for other casting character builds and for the same reasons. It is important to offer ones toon plenty of protection, combined with a devastating attack, so as to stave off any significant damage from enemies, particularly strong bosses.

Specifically, to address your query, I would substitute Defensive Skills in favor of Tactics Lore and a Weapon Skill. Additionally, a balance in offense and defense is important from the beginning in order to keep your character safe from damage as mentioned above. Also it is very important to keep the regeneration time of your Combat Arts quick so that you can devastate enemies before they do you serious harm. A carefully constructed and closely monitored build should prevent one from the need of using health potions in most situations, if ever at all.

 

 

I saw your guide and it's helpful although I still intend to keep a weapon skill mostly for making sure that I can proc any regen per hit modifiers from my weapons along with getting any useful item modifiers that need weapon skill.

Thanks for the advice regardless!

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If your idea is to proc regen per hit and have a weapon skill for it you can easily bypass it by taking Delphic Lore and using a level 1 Magic Coup with a mage staff. You don't really need a weapon skill since MC counts as a weapon hit and the Lore skill increases its execution speed. In case you have a spare skill you can also take Delphic Focus for faster regen and higher level of Grand Invigoration, which will maximize the effect of having Constitution exponentially.

I'd take Armor Lore much sooner though as it's very important for a caster to be able to wear (and have) proper armour, plus it also reduces the regen penalty from the gear you're using. But it all depends on how you intend to distribute skill points.

If you take 6 and 7 out you can replace them with the Delphic skills, and as for 10 I'd say that it depends on how much you'll use Expulse Magic. If you give it proper use and drop skill points to fully modify it then Spell Resistance is out of the question since EM does the same trick, but if you don't want to use it or spread your skill points that far then you can use Shield Lore for extra defense.

You can also replace the three skills in a different way. Instead of going for Delphic Lore+Focus pick only the Focus skill, Magic Staffs skill for extra attack speed and proc regen per hit with left click attacks, then choose Speed Lore as your third skill of those that you're replacing. Get a single-handed staff, use a shield and proc regen per hit from a distance, since with CM 1.60 they shoot projectiles in mid-range. So you can cast a spell-based CA, drop a projectile with the staff and proc regen per hit, then rinse repeat. Why Speed Lore you ask? It increases both attack and defense values which make you hit enemies more easily, thus proccing regen per hit more easily.

Just a few ideas. ;)

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I fully agree with what has been said so far.

Building on that, for a high elf hybrid build (spell CA + rph with weapons) using Magic Coup as Hybrid Damage Based Combat Art which has built in attack value based on CA level is an excellent CA.

1. With Target focus bronze mod you have a flat added chance to hit - very powerful

2. With Steal Mana silver mod you have percentage rph, I.e. if you master Combat Discipline (20% reduced reg time), stack 'chance to halve regeneration time' to 100% chance (50% reduced reg time) and bring Steal Mana to have at least 30% reg time stolen, you come to a total of 100% reduced reg time, I.e. instant regen of any CA regardless of regenartion time in higher levels (even if only one target is available).

3. Stray Damage gold mod to get mor reg during low level phase from multiple enemies

Since you do not want to damage with Magic Coup and likely want to have a high level Grand Invigoration, you may take only Delphic Focus and bring it to a high skilllevel while skipping the lore.

 

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I wouldn't bother with RpH for HE.

Edit: Excluding melee builds, ofc.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Androdion said:

If your idea is to proc regen per hit and have a weapon skill for it you can easily bypass it by taking Delphic Lore and using a level 1 Magic Coup with a mage staff. You don't really need a weapon skill since MC counts as a weapon hit and the Lore skill increases its execution speed. In case you have a spare skill you can also take Delphic Focus for faster regen and higher level of Grand Invigoration, which will maximize the effect of having Constitution exponentially.

I'd take Armor Lore much sooner though as it's very important for a caster to be able to wear (and have) proper armour, plus it also reduces the regen penalty from the gear you're using. But it all depends on how you intend to distribute skill points.

If you take 6 and 7 out you can replace them with the Delphic skills, and as for 10 I'd say that it depends on how much you'll use Expulse Magic. If you give it proper use and drop skill points to fully modify it then Spell Resistance is out of the question since EM does the same trick, but if you don't want to use it or spread your skill points that far then you can use Shield Lore for extra defense.

You can also replace the three skills in a different way. Instead of going for Delphic Lore+Focus pick only the Focus skill, Magic Staffs skill for extra attack speed and proc regen per hit with left click attacks, then choose Speed Lore as your third skill of those that you're replacing. Get a single-handed staff, use a shield and proc regen per hit from a distance, since with CM 1.60 they shoot projectiles in mid-range. So you can cast a spell-based CA, drop a projectile with the staff and proc regen per hit, then rinse repeat. Why Speed Lore you ask? It increases both attack and defense values which make you hit enemies more easily, thus proccing regen per hit more easily.

Just a few ideas. ;)

I am still keeping 7 but for 10 I will consider replacing it with delphic arcana lore skill.

though I have another question; for any casters that have a skill tree which uses tactics lore as it's aspect lore skill and if I am using a hybrid caster setup that involves a magic skill tree(eg. dryad's nature weaver) and the one that uses tactics lore as mentioned(eg. dryad's capricious hunter) what kind of defensive skills should I take? still constitution, armor lore and shield lore(unless I am using 2H weapons then I take another defensive skill)?

Edited by bassgun

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It depends on how well protected she is against magical damage. Don't underestimate the power of the Spell Resistance skill, it's kind of a backwards Ancient Magic so it covers a lot of ground defensively.

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15 hours ago, Androdion said:

It depends on how well protected she is against magical damage. Don't underestimate the power of the Spell Resistance skill, it's kind of a backwards Ancient Magic so it covers a lot of ground defensively.

then what about toughness? it should also decrease spell damage right?

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8 hours ago, bassgun said:

then what about toughness? it should also decrease spell damage right?

Yes, sort of. Toughness adds all armour types to your char and provides damage mitigation as well, which can be read as "damage mitigation +x% = damage -x%". So it can directly reduce spell damage (all damage actually), but its base property is to increase your resistance to damage of all types by increasing your armour values for all types since the damage mitigation is really small at lower levels of the skill. When you cast a spell-based CA on an enemy the chance for the CA to hit it depends on your spell intensity vs the enemy's spell resistance, same is valid the other way around. So what the Spell Resistance skill does is increase your defensive stat when you're targeted by a spell-based CA, thus reducing the chance for an enemy's spell to hit you. All of this happens before damage calculation, so armour values aren't yet being accounted for. Once the spell is resolved as hitting home then the damage calculations begin and armour and damage mitigation values come into play. But if you can't be hit via SR skill then having 30 million armour isn't really necessary. ;)

Alas the poor Dryad has no Toughness skill... :(

Warning: This reply was written with only one eye opened. :D

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8 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Yes, sort of. Toughness adds all armour types to your char and provides damage mitigation as well, which can be read as "damage mitigation +x% = damage -x%". So it can directly reduce spell damage (all damage actually), but its base property is to increase your resistance to damage of all types by increasing your armour values for all types since the damage mitigation is really small at lower levels of the skill. When you cast a spell-based CA on an enemy the chance for the CA to hit it depends on your spell intensity vs the enemy's spell resistance, same is valid the other way around. So what the Spell Resistance skill does is increase your defensive stat when you're targeted by a spell-based CA, thus reducing the chance for an enemy's spell to hit you. All of this happens before damage calculation, so armour values aren't yet being accounted for. Once the spell is resolved as hitting home then the damage calculations begin and armour and damage mitigation values come into play. But if you can't be hit via SR skill then having 30 million armour isn't really necessary. ;)

 Alas the poor Dryad has no Toughness skill... :(

Warning: This reply was written with only one eye opened. :D

unless one installs the sacred 2 enhanced edition mod then yes she can't get toughness, nor can the inquisitor learn shield lore until the installation moment :(

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Haven't been able to try out EE, but I reckon it changes things a little bit yes.

In my view the use of each defensive skill or not depends on how well protected you are without it, which is why I told you about Spell Resistance vs Expulse Magic. But basically Armor Lore is indispensable, Constitution depends on your gameplay and other defensive measures - same is valid for Toughness - but it's a priority, Spell Resistance and Combat Reflexes depend more on your planning of the build. Using SR skill with a Shadow Warrior that runs Grim Resilience or a High Elf that uses Expulse Magic a lot is a waste of a skill, but not using it on an Inquisitor which doesn't take Toughness is quite the risk.

It all comes down to how your build is planned and how you play it.

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On 11/2/2018 at 8:22 PM, Androdion said:

Haven't been able to try out EE, but I reckon it changes things a little bit yes.

In my view the use of each defensive skill or not depends on how well protected you are without it, which is why I told you about Spell Resistance vs Expulse Magic. But basically Armor Lore is indispensable, Constitution depends on your gameplay and other defensive measures - same is valid for Toughness - but it's a priority, Spell Resistance and Combat Reflexes depend more on your planning of the build. Using SR skill with a Shadow Warrior that runs Grim Resilience or a High Elf that uses Expulse Magic a lot is a waste of a skill, but not using it on an Inquisitor which doesn't take Toughness is quite the risk.

It all comes down to how your build is planned and how you play it.

well I will have to see what skills I have to pick for each class then.

Also is there anything expulse magic cannot banish? I used it on shelob and the insect cannot even summon anything like usual when I placed the spell on it.

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I don't think so, Expulse Magic is very OP! I'm thinking that depending on CA level you might have trouble against the mummy boss in the swamps since it also casts it, but other than that in terms of spells you're pretty much covered.

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Androdion is exactly right. The Dark Prince (Mummy Priest) is difficult to defeat because he casts Expulse Magic also, as seen in the following video: Niobium Tier High Elf vs The Dark Prince

 

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two of the christmas island bosses also have expulse magic too beside that mummy prince boss. These bosses can be a bit infuriating to kill because of that :( 

 

Edited by bassgun

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At least players have one advantage: they can choose equipment just for this fight. It is like boxing - if both have equal strength and skill, the with the longer arms wins normally. I used to collect every item with +x% Combat Art Range and used it to stay outside enemies [h]arm.

Just found the thread I did about this:

 

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