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Probably, but I won't be testing this because I am a loot addict and I love extra drops :)
 

My only issue is figuring out how to edit the blueprints file without screwing it up to fix things like the helmet for the Seraphim's Seriash set being called Chestplate of the Seriash (there's some other oddly named items, such as some of the Legendary items having "Blade of" when it's a mace requiring Hafted).

Edited by thejynxed
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4 hours ago, Androdion said:

I'll see if I can give it a go tomorrow as I have a day off work. I'm curious though, what about those items that fall into "4." that are fixed drops/quest rewards? What happens to those with this mod? Does it work like we've talked before, fixed drops are unaltered and can be placed here and there, but the items just won't drop regularly from RNG loot?

If there's a quest reward that is a Community Patch fan-made item, it would still drop, since those are handled in quest.txt.  There's not that many such items though, just the ones in CM Patch quests, like lightsabers.

I should note this wasn't made for Enhanced Edition.  Though it would technically work, it would break a lot of other EE changes, like the rare & unique damage converters, and expanded shopkeep selection (potions, shields, etc.).

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4 hours ago, thejynxed said:

Probably, but I won't be testing this because I am a loot addict and I love extra drops :)
 

My only issue is figuring out how to edit the blueprints file without screwing it up to fix things like the helmet for the Seraphim's Seriash set being called Chestplate of the Seriash (there's some other oddly named items, such as some of the Legendary items having "Blade of" when it's a mace requiring Hafted).

If you want to edit names, it's not done in blueprint.txt.  It's done in the global.res file using s2rw.exe.  

I know what you're talking about.  Soorn's Doombringer is a sword while Soorn's Righteous Blade is a club.  I swapped the names in my mod Diablo 2 Fallen because it bugged me so much.

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2 minutes ago, Flix said:

If you want to edit names, it's not done in blueprint.txt.  It's done in the global.res file using s2rw.exe.  

I know what you're talking about.  Soorn's Doombringer is a sword while Soorn's Righteous Blade is a club.  I swapped the names in my mod Diablo 2 Fallen because it bugged me so much.

Is this something that can be fixed in a future CM Patch then? I really do not want to mess with compiled game files myself.

Edited by thejynxed
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1 hour ago, thejynxed said:

Is this something that can be fixed in a future CM Patch then? I really do not want to mess with compiled game files myself.

I don't think there will be another CM Patch.  We split apart due to too many creative differences.  We each have our own mods that we continue to funnel fixes and changes into.

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That's a shame, because there is still annoying crap that I know both you and Dimitrius have fixed in your respective EE & Addendum that is not in the CM but I haven't installed either because of the CA changes or in the case of Dimitrius the Blacksmith stuff.

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10 hours ago, thejynxed said:

fix things like the helmet for the Seraphim's Seriash set being called Chestplate of the Seriash

Just FYI I looked into this and everything is named correctly.  The helmet is "Helmet of the Seraish" and the chest is "Fighting Cuirass of the Seraish"  Do you have a screenshot of what you're seeing?

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I had barely started a Guardian run and already I had a Cassis drop on me. Granted this is the SW with which I've been running EE 2.1, but I've removed that mod and only applied the Vanilla Drops. Still, I got that drop right away. I also got a Darkened Soul as a legendary, isn't it supposed to be a unique (unlock) or am I missing something?

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18 minutes ago, Androdion said:

I had barely started a Guardian run and already I had a Cassis drop on me. Granted this is the SW with which I've been running EE 2.1, but I've removed that mod and only applied the Vanilla Drops. Still, I got that drop right away. I also got a Darkened Soul as a legendary, isn't it supposed to be a unique (unlock) or am I missing something?

I left Centurio's Insignia in the game.  I believe that one had been created by devs, just wasn't dropping until CM Patch.  Same with Kendric's Archon, Memories of the Trees, and Equilibrium.  All the rest of the CM sets should be gone.

As for CM uniques, only Mountain Man's Slippers, Well-worn Hat, Bugslayer, Hammer of the Righteous, Bringer of Light, those three jewelry pieces, and the Dragon Mage missing stuff (Bunny Ears, Scribe Bracers of Atherton, Christmas set) remain.

For CM Legendaries, it's only the half-dozen or so jewelry pieces that the CM Patch made droppable that remain.

 

For your second question, there is a tier of item between Unique (tier 13) and Legendary (tier 15).  These are tier 14 items, and they can, strangely, drop as both unique or legendary.  Here are some examples:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Hammer_of_the_Righteous

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Bugslayer

 

When this happens, there's no difference in stats, just item name color.  Silver Fox speculated that when received as a quest reward (coming from quest.txt), they showed up as Legendary, if dropped from monsters or chests (from drop.txt), they showed up as Unique.  Many of the Unlock items are tier 14.

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11 hours ago, Flix said:

Just FYI I looked into this and everything is named correctly.  The helmet is "Helmet of the Seraish" and the chest is "Fighting Cuirass of the Seraish"  Do you have a screenshot of what you're seeing?

This is what I get for playing while drunk: The item is actually in the Infinite Revenge set and the helmet is called Chestplate of Fury while the actual chest piece is called Light Battle Plate. Now I am trying to figure out how to screenshot with the UI present, because for some reason it is not present when I take one by using the in-game keybind.

Edited by thejynxed
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It's this one: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Infinite_Revenge

Just made a few Guardian runs, first one I had a chest piece from the Pandamonium's Pride set drop. And I got another legendary, so two in half a dozen runs.

PS: Just got the gloves for the set as well, and that one shouldn't be dropping. The restored content includes everything like fist and throw weapons right?

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Well, fist weapons themselves have a definition in the code, but it was rendered null during dev for some reason, so I think from what I've seen the workaround was taking them and defining them as a type of Sword (the skins, etc for them are all present in the original game files from what I can tell). I know that in my old physical media edition of Sacred 2, some NPCs didn't quite work properly because in creatureinfo.txt they were defined to use a no longer existent fist weapon as a defined slot, so they just didn't attack but stood around like dopes.

As for the gear, yes, it's that one, I still can't believe someone called a helmet piece a chestplate.

Still sadface they officially scrapped fist weapons and saddles during Sacred 2 development, both were two things that set apart Sacred from competing ARPG loot schemes.

Edited by thejynxed
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2 hours ago, Androdion said:

Just made a few Guardian runs, first one I had a chest piece from the Pandamonium's Pride set drop. And I got another legendary, so two in half a dozen runs.

PS: Just got the gloves for the set as well, and that one shouldn't be dropping. The restored content includes everything like fist and throw weapons right?

Pandemonium's Pride is still dropping as well.  It's developer made.  I thought I removed it but I was thinking of Kanka's Relics, which was semi-complete but the bonuses were invented (and way overpowered, like the mutation sets).

Fist and throwing weapons still exist but only as random normal/magic/rare because all the unique, set, and legendaries are fan inventions.

 

7 minutes ago, thejynxed said:

As for the gear, yes, it's that one, I still can't believe someone called a helmet piece a chestplate.

I just can't believe no one noticed or said anything until now.  It's plain that it's a bug.  Will fix it in EE 2.2.

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On 4/15/2019 at 10:20 PM, Flix said:

OK here it is:

 

@Androdion @Hooyaah  I decided to do this based mainly on your feedback, so I'd appreciate if you give it a try.

My High Elf is up to level 22 now and there is definitely a huge improvement. I even had Artamark's Star drop which is extremely rare with all the added fan-based jewelry having been thrown into the mix before this mod. I will keep plugging along an provide additional feedback.

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I am now getting drops with vanilla armor and weapons. The mod is working well as designed, good sir Flix! Kudos and thank you for your tireless efforts.

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On 4/20/2019 at 9:06 PM, Hooyaah said:

My High Elf is up to level 22 now and there is definitely a huge improvement. I even had Artamark's Star drop which is extremely rare with all the added fan-based jewelry having been thrown into the mix before this mod. I will keep plugging along an provide additional feedback.

I have like 30 of those things ranging in a variety of levels and difficulty tiers as the source. Amulet of the Seriash on the other hand, is my most coveted jewelry piece for my Seraphim toons and finding those is like a needle in a haystack. I am sure though if I tweaked up the overall drop rates for tier 14 in my balance.txt (I have it set really low currently in favor of tier 15 drops) I'd probably find more than I do.

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48 minutes ago, thejynxed said:

I have like 30 of those things ranging in a variety of levels and difficulty tiers as the source. Amulet of the Seriash on the other hand, is my most coveted jewelry piece for my Seraphim toons and finding those is like a needle in a haystack. I am sure though if I tweaked up the overall drop rates for tier 14 in my balance.txt (I have it set really low currently in favor of tier 15 drops) I'd probably find more than I do.

Yeah, there weren't THAT many unique jewelry pieces added in CM Patch, just those set items from the mini-sets (about 12 amulets and 15 rings).  There's just already like 100 vanilla unique rings and 100 amulets right from the start.

I'll double check Amulet of the Sereish on the off-chance it's missing from some drop lists - as many tier 14 and 15 jewelry pieces were until CM 1.60.

EDIT: Nah, it looks fine.  It's not even tier 14, just plain ol' tier 13 unique.  Since the weargroup is listed as Seraphim Only though, the chances of it dropping for any character other than a Seraphim are extremely low.

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40 minutes ago, Flix said:

Yeah, there weren't THAT many unique jewelry pieces added in CM Patch, just those set items from the mini-sets (about 12 amulets and 15 rings).  There's just already like 100 vanilla unique rings and 100 amulets right from the start.

I'll double check Amulet of the Sereish on the off-chance it's missing from some drop lists - as many tier 14 and 15 jewelry pieces were until CM 1.60.

EDIT: Nah, it looks fine.  It's not even tier 14, just plain ol' tier 13 unique.  Since the weargroup is listed as Seraphim Only though, the chances of it dropping for any character other than a Seraphim are extremely low.

Yeah, which my other modified bit comes in handy, setting drops for characters to 1000 (but there still remains a tiny chance of some dropping for other classes for whatever reason).

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  • 5 months later...
On 4/26/2019 at 2:41 AM, thejynxed said:

Yeah, which my other modified bit comes in handy, setting drops for characters to 1000 (but there still remains a tiny chance of some dropping for other classes for whatever reason).

You have to realise that the player is not the only thing that can kill mobs. Mobs can kill mobs. Enviromenal Damage can kill mobs. A lot of other stuff can kill mobs for which the player isnt directly responsible for. For those things isforHero seems to apply the standard value of 700.

The most prominent example of this you can see when you load in 10 Kraken bosses. Due to their CA nature they friendly fire a lot. And kill other kraken bosses in the process. My estimate is that around 30% of that loot is not for the player, even if isforHero is 1000.

 

 

 

Ok, back again to the point. I read through all the posts so far. Like I stated so far the problems are that the modding scene seems to broaden themsef further and further out. Unity seems to be missing and a unified gaming experience.

Let me first address the issue of Community Versions in most games. The main problem of community versions in most games is that it tries to fix things, but doesnt get a full development cycle to balance out the fixes again. A broken game can be more fun than a fixed one. Community versions dont have the manpower to make the full spin, as a single change can require a thousand hours of test time to make it fun again. For exactly this reasons many prefer the "vanilla" style, over a community version. It just feels better.

The second problem that Community Versions have is that they usually try to advertise as "just like the vanilla version, but better". In ALL cases they are wrong. For the simple reason stated above CE versions can never really reach the same state as the vanilla game, with double digit developers and hundreds of testers. Let me introduce another problem here.

Many CE fixes require changing the code, which first of all excludes anybody who cant revers those changes. The best solution to this is to maintain 2 versions of code, and to let the players install code changes modularly. For one reason or another this is unfeasable. Even in the case of feasability maintaining 2 code versions puts a lot of stress onto CE coders, who do it for fun, and not for stress. As you can see, splitting code changes into different versions is not really feasible, not even with the most dedicated people around. This is why I usually propose a unified code changing experience. This is why I would ask to change the advertisement of CP from "like vanilla, just better" to "As close as possible to vanilla, with inevitable code changes". You will get a lot of better feedback if you stay closer to the truth.

Going from the above problem the next step is what a Community Version should look like. This varies from community to community but in Sacred 2 case I think you created  the problem of not differentiating between code changes, and additional/fixed content. A change in the dll is an unavoidable code change, but adding 300 fixed/reinstated items is NOT. There is clearly a distinction missing between code changes and things which are optional.

A good community version is split into 2 parts:

  • Changed code. Due to above reasons you dont want to maintain 2 different code versions. The changes in here dont have to be objective, they just have to be unavoidable and only fixable in the code, and should stay as close as possible to the vanilla game. 
  • Every CE version comes with its own subjective changes. As stated above they CANT be tested on their fun factor, and should therefore be provided as an additional option during the CE installation. You can call the code changes the BONE Installation and the full installation the FULL CE Installation. Why bone ? Because everything which you can strip off the bone can get put into the additional part.

 

 

Moving on to the other point. Good mods being lost in time.

Like I pointed out on other occasions the main reason this is the case is because Sacred 2 mods miss modularity. Once you have 2 mods you basically have to manually merge them. Full stop. Furthermore mods are mostly for certain builds like [V] or [CP1.6] or [Addendum]. This means that the same efforts have to be done again and again. Good work gets lost in time, because nobody transfers the content over.

Another problem to introduce here is the time to actually switch between mods. I dont think this is a small issue. If you are playing with mods, the usual reasons why you dont try out other mods are "Uff, I have to set up everything again." The less work you require people to switch between modding content the more mods will get tryed out, and the more fun people have with the game. Think about Elders Scroll, and how the modding scene would look like if the mods wouldnt be modular, but you would have to recompile your game for every single mod you add. Horrible thought. But thats the case with Sacred 2.

These 2 features eliminate most of the problems.

  • Eliminate version differences for mods. In S2s case a proper solution would be to publish a mod as a set of intructions, which automatically get applied ontop of your current build. Content would be easily addable this way. Content which may require things which cannot be changed modularly can be restricted to bigger mods, like model changes or visual additions. But dont put a pin in that as Dragon Brother might have found a way to simply extract graphical content into the pak folder. Either way eliminating version exclusivity and increasing modularity helps the community a great deal to produce better and enjoyable content more quickly.
  • Make a modlauncher. At one point you will realise that making mods easily installable is not your only solution to have had. Now you are facing the issue that you would like to install 15 mods ontop of each, and dont want to do do the process manually everytime. Thats what you need a modlauncher for. It installs mods as easily as you first installed a single mod. The bigger and more diverse the modding content grows the more you need a modlauncher to handle all that content.

As an example and if the modsystem laucnhes Flix could publish his removal of non-vanilla items as a standalone mod that can be applied to any version under any circumstances ( assuming you can easily change the droprate to 0 ). It wouldnt be depending on anything, and wouldnt break anything. The content would still be there, just deactivated. Anybody could grab it try out the changes in one minute. Then he could rebuild his old build quickly if he doesnt like it.

 

 

 

I suggest these points as long term community goals.

  • Create a BONE installation of the CE version of Sacred 2.
  • Put the MEAT Installation as an optional ontop. Call it the full installation
  • Make modmerge system for single mods ( my job )
  • Make a modlauncher ( propably also my job )

People would need to slowly switch over to to publish their mod in a Modmerge System Compatible [MSC] fashion, and maybe some people need to run some advertisement on how great the system is. Anyway, I can only do the things I can, and have to leave the rest up to other people.

I want to point out that everybody who reads this is propably mostly capable enough to make their own build fairly well. We are mostly not setting these goals for ourself, but for the people who wouldnt stay otherwise. And we dont know what they would be able to bring into the community. We would be doing this to bet on a better future, with no assurance whether it will pay off or not. So if you think the way is fun enough to go along with it, then join the effort.

 

 

 

 

 

Also on an unrelated note, somebody asked somewhere if it wouldnt be nice if we would list what kind of loot gets dropped by different mobs.

As far as I know animals classified as "Wildtier" only drop potions. This mostly concerns lions, panthers, wolfs, etc ...

Ghosts seem to only yield rings, amulets and reliqs. They also drop the commonly "converte to elemental dmg%" smithing thing. I havent looked through it yet but they have quite the good drops for those 3 categories.

Unbenannt.png.eaeaa17657c66eb3af5fd4de9df6fcc8.png

Dunno if we should put that somewhere. Would be interesting to tell players that drop tables are wildly different.

Edited by Charon117
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