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Burgfräulein, Paladin build in v12, discuss nerf in v13


chattius

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1 hour ago, Flix said:

Yes, this is a known bug and something I'm currently unable to resolve. I'm hoping Dmitriy may be able to disable whatever function ties the two together. This is happening because Holy Freeze takes Warding Energy's place, and as you remember Divine Protection disables Warding Energy when it expires.

The best I can do now is try to give Holy Freeze a very quick casting animation.

I don't know how Holy Freeze and Holy Shield are bound. If Holy shield drops will it check if a thing called 'Warding energy' is up?

If it would be that easy we could move holy freeze to the spell which is now conversion and conversion to what was Warding Energy.

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5 minutes ago, chattius said:

I don't know how Holy Freeze and Holy Shield are bound. If Holy shield drops will it check if a thing called 'Warding energy' is up?

If it would be that easy we could move holy freeze to the spell which is now conversion and conversion to what was Warding Energy.

Then comes the possibility that the Conversion duration will be terminated whenever Holy Shield drops, I.e., whenever it the shield expires converted minions will all turn against the Paladin.

My belief is that there is some line of code that dictates: if "se_te_notschild" duration expires, then deactivate "se_te_energieschild".  It doesn't seem tied to spell tokens, spell class, or anything else because I tried swapping out all those things.  It must be the name of the spell itself.

Also if we swapped Holy Freeze and Conversion all the text strings that display the spell properties would be messed up or missing. Those have to be coded in the binaries, which is something I'd have to ask Dmitriy to do. I'm hoping he'll be able to just disable the shared expiration instead.

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Regarding the Warding Energy behaviour, has it always been like that since vanilla FA or has its behaviour changed with any game version? If it has changed we could try and pinpoint why and here. I don't know if Dmitriy has managed to circumvent this particular issue in his Addendum but it's worth asking him directly.

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1 hour ago, Androdion said:

Regarding the Warding Energy behaviour, has it always been like that since vanilla FA or has its behaviour changed with any game version? If it has changed we could try and pinpoint why and here. I don't know if Dmitriy has managed to circumvent this particular issue in his Addendum but it's worth asking him directly.

It has always been like that and I posted in his thread asking for help with my last bug dump.  Fingers crossed.

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Guys, what's the damage sequence (again) between energy shield from Holy Shield and reflecting damage from Thorns? Say I want to use Thorns' reflection as a damage dealer, if I have the shield up will it negate the reflection since it absorbs the damage prior to it?

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Block Chance is the very first thing, followed by Reflect.  Then everything else is calculated, all before the Energy Shield (evade, attack vs. defense, spell intensity vs. spell resistance, armor, mitigation,), so I believe it looks like:

Block --> Reflect --> Chance to hit --> Armor --> Damage Mitigation --> Energy Shield

The Energy Shield is basically serving as a second hitpoint pool, subject to the same damage calculations, and is the last stop along the way before hitpoints themselves are reduced.

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On 11/29/2019 at 4:36 AM, Flix said:

If I consult the "Sacred Book" of Diablo 2 itself, I recall that Holy Fire was a very powerful killer at low levels and then tapered off significantly at high levels, becoming almost useless unless aura stacking was done (creating an Auradin), which is basically what is happening for "free" in Sacred 2 (in D2 the Paladin could only use one Aura at a time, unless using items/mercenaries granting extra Auras). So I could always increase the base damage but keep the scaling lower.

I've ran a new Paladin up to level 20 with Prayer and Holy Fire. This time with Trading which is very nice since I could buy +All Skills from level 13 onward, though it requires an additional skill for unlocking so it dials back the skill progression a bit. By level 20 I had enough to have some +10 on everything, but since I had to choose survivability at first I was locked out of damage dealing skills, namely Ancient Magic. Still it's not that I could die but more of a case where my damage dealing came to a crawling stall. I could barely damage Gar in Easy, that's when I came to see it was a no go.

But regarding HF with this nerfed range, it's pointless even at lower levels. It causes little damage and only at a really close distance. It came to a point where having it on or not wasn't much of a difference (there goes the toon progression in early levels), so for a lower level killer it ain't working. I duplicated the save file and tried changing Trading to Ancient Magic, which resulted in HF triggering more often and causing a bit more damage, but even Kobolds/Devilkins would resist it easily. I mean, with level 20 and AM at level 30 HF should be a bit more deadly no? Unless I choose Focus, Lore and AM all together I don't see it being that much of a damage dealer, not even at lower levels. Granted, in v12 the range and its progression were OP to say the least. But now they're both pointless because this CA isn't making much of a difference at lower levels and since its progression curve is slim then I also don't see it being valuable in the long run.

One other thing, with v12 spells.txt the radius displayed at the tooltip with a level 1 toon and level 1 HF is 5.7m (11.4m in total and not 10m) and with the last spells.txt it's 1.1m (2.2m in total and not 2m). I'm not sure if this is wrong or right, but those tooltips are dynamical so they should display correct values right? Anyway, I think that anything below a starting 3m radius isn't going to work in lower levels. The silver mod does provide 2m more right away, but then you need an extra 50 CA levels to achieve another one, so I think the range progression stalls very easily while keeping it real at lower levels. It's not like you can boost its damage beyond stupid at such low levels anyway. The hit frequency I agree that it should remain low, otherwise it could trigger too fast too soon.

To finalize my thoughts, if I take into account the quote above I see HF as something worthwhile for the first 40 to 50 levels of your toon, then with the really low range progression it'll need some intense investment for remaining efficient on its own. Sure, Conviction joining in at mastery level may unbalance things a bit, but by that level mobs will be what, ten levels above you and filled to the teeth with resistances?! I can see HF working well with Prayer and Conviction, or even with Prayer and Thorns, but not just on its own. Which I guess is the intended behaviour. :smile:

So, what gives @Flix?

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41 minutes ago, Androdion said:

One other thing, with v12 spells.txt the radius displayed at the tooltip with a level 1 toon and level 1 HF is 5.7m (11.4m in total and not 10m) and with the last spells.txt it's 1.1m (2.2m in total and not 2m).

Yeah strangely the numbers in spells.txt don't correspond to the actual meters displayed in the tooltips.  The in-game tooltips are correct and me saying 2 meters is just because the value is 200 in the scripts (down from 1000 in v12).

I'll try to get the correct actual meters listed in the change log.

41 minutes ago, Androdion said:

So, what gives?

It sounds like the base damage and range need to be improved some. Even if it requires work to make it awesome at high levels, it should still have a "wow" factor at beginning levels, just like any spell.  I just doubled both base values, while leaving the scaling the same.

Try this one:

 

spells.txt

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I will tonight, thanks. 

Regarding the meters, maybe there's some kind of approximation working in the formula, or maybe it's feet instead of meters or some other measure?

PS: I think I found the ratio, I believe the game may be calculating the radius in yards (1m is 1,0936yd).

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Ok, progress update.

Grabbed my tiger and spent some time in the Crystal Planes, which weren't as easy as you'd think with a fire aura. At level 23 I managed to kill Gar, but much like Gahanka earlier it was a long fight while chugging potions. At that point every mob was four levels below me so I switched to Normal which is a bit challenging so to speak. I've kept investing in raising my skills and socketing +All Skills, currently at level 31 with Energy Shield Lore as my sixth skill and I can have my way around mostly every mob so far. Elites are still tough to kill but it's manageable. Hierophant mobs are hard because they have a debuff attack which shuts down auras but other than that it's ok.

My main issue right now are bosses. I've met only one so far, Gahanka, but before at level 27 and now at level 31 I have the same problem... I just can't seem to damage him no matter what I do. HF does nothing, FotH does nothing, weapon hits do nothing, mage staff hits do nothing. I just can't seem to cause him any harm, which sucks because if I can't kill Gahanka I sure as hell won't be able to kill Gar nor any other campaign boss. Oh, and his boulder throw attack redlines my toon if the shield is down, so even Gahanka is lethal right now.

What should I do? I'm thinking of picking Devout Offense Lore at level 35 and see if it makes any difference.

PS: @chattius - Would it be possible for you or your daughter to test this latest spells.txt with your level 1** toons and post about it?!

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What are you focusing on as your main killing skill? How did FotH go from one-shotting every boss to doing nothing? All I did was lower the scaling by about 1/3.

If you're using a weapon and Devout Offense aspect, why not use Blessed Hammer?

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I'm doing things differently with this run. I don't have Ancient Magic at char level nor do I have the Devout Offense tree modified, apart from Holy Fire which was the test subject of this build. I've been focusing on the auras and on raising Trading and Concentration to char level. Yeah I've lost some firepower there but I was trying to compensate it with +All Skills, apparently it doesn't cut it just yet. I chose Devout Offense Lore at level 35 and the damage increased enough for it to cause Gahanka some pain, little but noticeable. Thanks for the tip for Blessed Hammer, didn't even think of that. I had equipped a Star of Astaroth to see if now at 35 I could bring Gahanka down. Funny as it may be I caused more damage spamming BH with a Shadow Weaver equipped than with Star of Astaroth, which has 1%LL. Anyway, I managed to kill him like that, but he was already two levels below my toon. Don't get me wrong, FotH is still killing regular mobs great and elites more or less so. But when I approach a boss my firepower is really down. I guess this progression will be slow, I'll have to see how it goes against Gar.

The "one-shooting every boss" thingy, you need to realise I was running with v12 HF+AM mastery+Lore mastery+Conviction. It was a number of different things bringing bosses down and not just one.

PS: Did the main quest boss in Black Oaks and spamming BH helped again, though here FotH causes much more damage. I'll see if tomorrow I can reach Gar and see how it goes. And @Flix, in case it wasn't evident I wasn't criticising anything. :)

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No prob, feedback is good.  Here is my take on the Paladin's intended design: auras are meant for support only.  They will help boost a Paladin who chooses either the Sublime Combat weapon attacks, or one of her spell attacks in Devout Offense.

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I understand, I just ran it from scratch like that to test HF and ended up going all the way up. It's been challenging but then again that was to be expected with Inferno mode on. If I get it to work eventually it'll be a personal win, ha ha.

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She did a quick test. Lost 3 mounts in half an hour. Still able to kill bosses but the defense was based on killing everything before it is in range for its own attacks and a big energy shield ;)

So the equipment would have to be adapted to the new spellstxt. Probably more on max energy shield, changing the +allSkills/+x%FireDamage to flat damage so that fire and magic damage would be affected. The +x% intelligence equipment is of less use now, perhaps replace one item for one with more combat art range...

If wanted I can upload the savefile tomorrow for your own testing. The problem is that the character was a 'grown' character in a certain environment. The environment changed and only way to adapt to new one is now to play with other equipment.

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Oh I understand what you mean, and that's why I also started from scratch with the one I'm running with currently. Thanks for the tips.

Right now I'm wondering what to choose as my ninth and tenth skills. Do you think Damage Lore will still be as useful as before with HF nerfed as it is, or should I choose something else to properly boost the toon? As for my last skill I have no idea... If I master Energy Shield Lore and run with the proper modifiers for it will that be enough for not dying, along with Prayer's regen boost? Should I pick two defensive skills in order to be able to receive more damage without dying? I really don't know where to head next, but I have 15 levels to figure it out.

PS: @Flix Do you think that putting one hard point in Speed Lore and run Blessed Hammer at spam level (1 sec or less regen time) with a weapon which focuses on deadly strike/%LL would be effective? And I say SL to avoid having to socket jewellery with better chance to hit, so in a +All Skills build it could sit there and still raise attack/defense values substantially. What do you think?

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I am not sure about damage lore after the change. It nearly doubled the damage of HF in v12 with its extra burn tick. The half hour I watched my daughter playing with new spellstxt she tried to kill enemies outside HF range using offensive magic. The spells do either arcane damage or are single target pseudo weapon attacks. So I see not much use with her current play style for damage lore in her old build.

Having forging an option would be to forge 'whet' into some slots. +x% damage for all damage type and reducing enemies chance to evade, attack rating, ...

So a high level Fist of Heaven and Blessed Hammer for instant recharging using reg per hit would be an option.

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Yeah, seems like a decent strategy. I'd have to pick the Blacksmith skill to unlock the Whet bonus though. But then again that would help me out with forging items in lower sockets as well. Um, I've got to consider that option.

@FlixHow widely available is the %LL modifier in v12?

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3 hours ago, Androdion said:

Yeah, seems like a decent strategy. I'd have to pick the Blacksmith skill to unlock the Whet bonus though. But then again that would help me out with forging items in lower sockets as well. Um, I've got to consider that option.

@FlixHow widely available is the %LL modifier in v12?

Compared to vanilla, the only change is it no longer appears on rare items.  I THINK the only rare-tier item it appeared on was throwing weapons, so that's all you lose in D2F.  All unique, set, and legendaries still have it, in fact more legendaries have it compared to vanilla.

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Nah, you could bargain two-handed swords and pole arms with that modifier in vanilla, apart from (yes) the ranged weapons. Though I'm pretty sure that was it regarding rares. Those high damage weapons would work wonderfully with Blessed Hammer. :D

24 minutes ago, Flix said:

in fact more legendaries have it compared to vanilla

I know the answer is probably lying somewhere in the mod's development threads, but I'll ask all the same. What do you mean?

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4 minutes ago, Androdion said:

What do you mean?

There are 1) New items that don't exist in vanilla that have it, and 2) Vanilla items that did not have it before but now have it D2F

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