Modified Version For A Smooth Playtrough

[Toushiiro 2]

Hello DarkMatters Community !

After years I've stepped over Sacred 2 again im willing more than ever to play the game and grind out all the difficulties without "cheating".
Of course im going to play the game with the Community Patch and Enhanced Version.
I also have these Mod's active:
- Enhanced Spells
- Superspawn

I already took a few steps in Ancaria but realized soon that vanilla rates are very slow.
Now im facing a wall.
It was very easy to boost the experience gain over the balance.txt to speed up just a little but not to much.
The problem I have now is that I've tried like 50 diffrent changes to the ZRareExpectation00 - ZRareExpectation15 to boost my drops a bit aswell without getting "OP" fast or dropping way to many good items in no time.
Dont worry, I already checked every post about Balance.txt that you could find over the internet thats why I decided to ask further and maybe a better explaination.

My current Setup is the following :
  ZRareExpectation15 = 4,
  ZRareExpectation14 = 7,
  ZRareExpectation13 = 12,
  ZRareExpectation12 = 25,
  ZRareExpectation11 = 40,
  ZRareExpectation10 = 855,
  ZRareExpectation09 = 510,
  ZRareExpectation08 = 459,
  ZRareExpectation07 = 408,
  ZRareExpectation06 = 357,
  ZRareExpectation05 = 306,
  ZRareExpectation04 = 255,
  ZRareExpectation03 = 204,
  ZRareExpectation02 = 153,
  ZRareExpectation01 = 102,
  ZRareExpectation00 = 80,
--------------------------------------------
DropMaxRandomRare = 12, - (What ive read is that this is the maximum tier of Items you can drop randomly so this would be ZRareExpectation12)
--------------------------------------------
  NORMAL_STANDARD = 400,
  NORMAL_RUNE = 30,
  CHAMP_STANDARD = 800,
  CHAMP_RUNE = 70,

Now I need you guys to help me out here because I dont understand how a level 28 Shadowwarrior [Silver Difficulty] with literlly 0 magic find can drop uniques and set pieces over normal monsters and champions already.
Of course I want to speed up the process of the game a bit but I dont want every 10th mob(+/-) to drop a setpiece or unique, thats to much for my personal feeling.
I still want to grind a bit but not like hundreds of bossruns to get any good items.

How is this possible when people posted many times that -> ZRareExpectation15 = Legendarys / ZRareExpectation14 = Set's & Uniques / ZRareExpectation13 = Uniques
Are there some uniques that are in lower treasureclasses like 13-15 or what is causing this ?
As you can see I already turned down 11 and 12 aswell because I thought maybe there are some in there too.
I really dont get it and I hope I can find assistance here.
Seems like whatever I do or change to lower numbers still wont help me or /= drop nothing at all.
My goal is to play the game without the garbage items and drop normal or decent stuff often and the uniques / sets not that often.
Of course RNG is a thing that you cannot change but this one here clearly has nothing to do with RNG.

Thanks already and I hope to see your help !

 

[Flix 5,116]

Tier 0 = Junk (grey text)

Tiers 1-4 = Normal (white text)

Tiers 5-8 = Magic (blue text)

Tiers 9-12 = Rare (yellow text)

Tier 13 = Uniques (gold text)

Tier 14 = I call these hybrids because they spawn with gold text when dropped from enemies/chests, but orange text when given as quest rewards. They should probably have their own classification and color scheme honestly, like "Epic" and purple text or something similar.

Tier 15 = Legendaries (orange text)

Set items may be any of these tiers.  They could even be lower tiers, though all are currently between 13-15.  They will always have green text no matter the tier. 

Obviously what I feel is well balanced is what I've provided in the Enhanced Edition, so I can't say with authority just how you should adjust balance.txt to get exactly the drops you want. 

The thing that complicates it is that various types of enemies and even chests pull from different types of drop lists defined in drop.txt.   This is based partly on the "dangerclass" assigned to enemies in creatures.txt  So rats for example have a very low danger class, so they are set to draw from crappy drop lists with mostly normal-class items.  If you lower the chance to receive normal items in balance.txt, and you're not increasing the chance that rats will drop more uniques, you're just increasing the chance that the rats won't drop much of anything at all.

Therefore I would not reduce any of the ZRareExpectations for the lower tier items. Instead I would increase the numbers in tiers 13-15 slightly.  Keep adjusting it in very small amounts until it feels right to you.

EDIT: Also, welcome to DarkMatters!  I hope you enjoy your time here.  

[Toushiiro 2]

Hello Flix !

Thanks for your fast reply and explaination.
Makes sense for me and I will try increasing the higher tiers just a little bit so it wont drop to crazy and keep the lower ones as they are.

But even with the Setup im playing now, do you have any idea how on earth I can get Uniques dropped just like that ?
Uniques in Tier13 that I have set as (12 / 1.2%) and I still dropp so many of them its crazy.
I think the dice might be able to "hit" T13 alot easier with all low tiernumbers I have in my file.

What I also can confirm is that if you lift
NORMAL_STANDARD = :),
CHAMP_STANDARD = :),
above [1000 / 100%] your chance of getting uniques and sets is brutally high, almost guaranteed no matter what you have in the ZRareExpectation groups.
Reason for that is that the "Dice" has several chances to roll between all the groups.
= more drops = more dicerolls = more chance for any Unique / Setpiece.

[dimitrius154 612]

23 minutes ago, Flix said:

Set items may be any of these tiers.

Hmm? Technically they are of the 14-th tier...

[Toushiiro 2]

You can say that if 10 items dropped = 10x chance of getting any of the T13-T15 Items.
NORMAL_STANDARD =
CHAMP_STANDARD =
as I would call it are "passive hightier magicfind modifiers" if above 1000.

[gogoblender 3,070]

54 minutes ago, Toushiiro said:

Hello DarkMatters Community !

After years I've stepped over Sacred 2 again im willing more than ever to play the game and grind out all the difficulties without "cheating".
Of course im going to play the game with the Community Patch and Enhanced Version.

 

Beautifully happy to see you here, Toushiro... and delighted you're enjoying the patches for our gem game.. Sacred

 

welcome to DarkMatters!

gogo

[Flix 5,116]

45 minutes ago, dimitrius154 said:

Hmm? Technically they are of the 14-th tier...

It's fairly obvious by perusing blueprint.txt that set items may be tier 13, 14, or 15.  The only thing that creates the green text is the presence of a mgr.createBlueprintset entry that includes the items.

Set items are not a separate tier.

newBlueprint = {
  id = 1906,
  name = "set_helve_arcan_chest",
  palettebits = "1111111111111111",
  dmgvariation = 0,
  minconstraints = {15,13,0},
  lvljump = 15,
  usability = 0,
  allotment_pmfpi = {1000,0,0,0,0},
  uniquename = "set",
  specialuseonly = 0,
  bonusgroup0 = {819,1350,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup1 = {411,1350,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup2 = {419,1400,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup3 = {750,1000,10,9,0},
  bonusgroup4 = {751,1000,10,9,1},
  itemtypes = {4326,},
  wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_HIGHELVE',},
}
mgr.createBlueprint(1906, newBlueprint);

newBlueprint = {
  id = 3466,
  name = "set_shadowwarrior_lordaeron_sword",
  palettebits = "1111111111111111",
  dmgvariation = 170,
  minconstraints = {20,14,0},
  lvljump = 15,
  usability = 0,
  allotment_pmfpi = {800,0,0,0,300},
  uniquename = "set",
  specialuseonly = 0,
  bonusgroup0 = {875,1300,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup1 = {527,1250,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup2 = {521,1400,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup3 = {857,1000,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup4 = {858,1000,10,9,0},
  itemtypes = {13266,},
  wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_CENTURIO',},
}
mgr.createBlueprint(3466, newBlueprint);

newBlueprint = {
  id = 2827,
  name = "legendary_dagger_slage1",
  palettebits = "1111111111111111",
  dmgvariation = 170,
  minconstraints = {20,15,0},
  lvljump = 10,
  usability = 0,
  allotment_pmfpi = {1000,0,0,0,0},
  uniquename = "unique",
  specialuseonly = 0,
  bonusgroup0 = {803,1550,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup1 = {859,1000,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup2 = {671,1550,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup3 = {533,1500,1,9,0},
  bonusgroup4 = {871,1450,1,9,0},
  itemtypes = {2428,},
  wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_DEFAULT',},
}
mgr.createBlueprint(2827, newBlueprint);

 

[dimitrius154 612]

26 minutes ago, Flix said:

It's fairly obvious by perusing blueprint.txt that set items may be tier 13, 14, or 15.

Right, not "any" tier, but 13 - 15 range. Also, the quest rewards routine seems to ignore the drop table.

P.S.   I'm not being obnoxious. It's a matter of whether I have to look into the code-side of the issue, if present. Which I have time to - due to the recent situation.  

Edited April 10, 2020 by dimitrius154

[Flix 5,116]

3 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

whether I have to look into the code-side of the issue, if present. 

You might check and see why Tier 14 items get assigned orange text if dropped via quest.txt, and adjust it to use gold text instead.

[Toushiiro 2]

Another problem im facing.
Having this enabled over Mod Enabler
https://gyazo.com/a49e4981fe1188a8783b4228b4000f39

Now when I also want to enable Superspawn it gives me following message :
https://gyazo.com/113fda9f7b8768705e4c3af414019bad

As you can see the Enhanced Spells grey's out in the Mod Enabler as soon as I activate Superspawn.
Tried to run the game even with the message but turned out that the Enhanced Spells dont work.
Any advice ?

[Flix 5,116]

This is intended behavior from the mod enabler.  It is alerting you that the file spawn.txt is altered by Enhanced Edition, and then altered again by Superspawn.

If this was some third party mod that altered the file, you would dealing with incompatibility.  So this message is important, generally.

However in this case Superspawn is, naturally, designed to work perfectly with Enhanced Edition.  It's built from the same spawn.txt file.

The mods earlier in the list become greyed out to indicate you must uninstall the mods in the reverse order that you installed them.  It does not mean something is disabled or not working.  It's exactly how mine looks.

If Enhanced Edition isn't working for you, there is another reason, such as incorrect installation.  Nothing in your images indicates that anything is wrong with your installed mods.

[dimitrius154 612]

5 hours ago, Flix said:

You might check and see why Tier 14 items get assigned orange text if dropped via quest.txt, and adjust it to use gold text instead.

The coloration logic for the upper tiers is:

13 - gold

> 14 - orange

the routine is followed by a check, whether an item blueprint is part of a set. If present, the color is green.

Wouldn't be a better solution to adjust the unique tier level to 13 in blueprint.txt?

 

Also, drop logic isn't ignored after all.  DropPattern 119 works.

Edited April 11, 2020 by dimitrius154

[Flix 5,116]

6 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

The coloration logic for the upper tiers is:

13 - gold

> 14 - orange

Hmm and yet something is not being strictly obeyed with the coloraton.  Some examples:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Bugslayer

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Hammer_of_the_Righteous

6 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

Wouldn't be a better solution to adjust the unique tier level to 13 in blueprint.txt?

And just abolish tier 14 altogether?  I rather like having the ability to make some uniques and sets more rare based on them being better than their peers, yet not of Legendary status.  I think the finer gradations are useful in this case.  Otherwise my conscience would force me to do another rebalance sweep.  Feasible of course, just a PITA.  

6 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

Also, drop logic isn't ignored after all.  DropPattern 119 works.

Frustratingly, most DropPatterns are not commented in drop.txt, so I've no clue what they are assigned to.  There's not a table somewhere you could post is there? Or a list you've made?

[dimitrius154 612]

1 hour ago, Flix said:

I rather like having the ability to make some uniques and sets more rare based on them being better than their peers, yet not of Legendary status.

As far as I know, tiers don't affect drop rarity. The only time tier limitation is used is when a trader stock is being refreshed, so as to dissallow items with tier above 12.

1 hour ago, Flix said:

There's not a table somewhere you could post is there? Or a list you've made?

Not yet. I intend to do some more editing of the drops, of course.  For example, most CM unique and set items are missing from relevant general drop selections making them much rarer, then vanilla uniques and sets.

[Flix 5,116]

1 hour ago, dimitrius154 said:

As far as I know, tiers don't affect drop rarity.

The lines quoted by the author of this thread from balance.txt definitely have an effect on drop rate, and they're based on item tiers.

1 hour ago, dimitrius154 said:

For example, most CM unique and set items are missing from relevant general drop selections making them much rarer, then vanilla uniques and sets.

Though there may have been a few missed ones, I think I got all of them in EE.  "Much rarer" is a gross exaggeration.  The most common complaint with CM sets and uniques is how they crowd out the vanilla drops.

There was also a conscious decision to put a lot of the new CM sets in "Dropliste_minisets" as opposed to "Droplist_all_set".  Despite its name, this latter one never contained "all sets", only the full body armor sets.  We also noticed that bosses seemed to love "Dropliste_minisets" for some reason.

[dimitrius154 612]

22 minutes ago, Flix said:

The most common complaint with CM sets and uniques is how they crowd out the vanilla drops.

They only ones I see dropping often(in fact too often) are Night and Silent Water set pieces. The others are a rare occurence.

25 minutes ago, Flix said:

The lines quoted by the author of this thread from balance.txt definitely have an effect on drop rate, and they're based on item tiers.

Hmm, yes, the ZRareExpectation values are loaded, at least. The effect was obviously supposed to be similar to Diablo II drop chance divisors. Judging by he chaotic outcome of edting the values there's another calculation error somewhere.

[Flix 5,116]

35 minutes ago, dimitrius154 said:

They only ones I see dropping often(in fact too often) are Night and Silent Water set pieces.

Yes, I believe I added those to too many drop lists in stock CM 1.50.  Recommend removing them from "Drop_Grave_Sword" and also increasing the minimum drop level for the pieces to 40.  Currently I believe The Silent Water is handed out as a quest reward almost constantly due to being able to spawn at level 10.

[Toushiiro 2]

Okay guys another question.
Whats possible with Socket's and Merchants.
Ive seen alot of posts but not one that makes clear what "limits" we have.

Let's say I want to mod and overload my character with bargain rings & amus over merchants and get like many godtier items over merchants.
In combination I want my Yellow's / Uniques / Set's / Legendarys to have max/best sockets possible, what exactly do I need to change for that scenario ?

Are there any "OP" Items that I could use / force drop for a Level 200 Bargain Character ?
Im planning with a "cap" 200 Bargain Character to get some good Bargain Rings etc. to slot into lower level characters parts.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Toushiiro

[Toushiiro 2]

I actually tried to modifiy the lines to make Niob a bit easier.

I changed these :
  Enemy_armor = {800,900,1000,6000,7200},
  Enemy_weapondamage = {650,850,1000,3300,3630},
  Enemy_spelldamage = {500,800,1000,3500,3850},

to make Niob at least a bit easier but even when all of them are exact the same as on Silver the monsters just 1 shot me.
Are there any other Lines I have to look at ?

[Flix 5,116]

Try these lines as well:

  NPC_speedfac_any = {1000,1200,1300,1400,1500},
  AttackFactorDiff = {800,1000,1750,2750,4500},
  DamageFactorDiff = {1000,1050,1200,1350,1500},
  LifeFactorDiff = {1000,1400,2000,3000,4000},

  NPC_attrWdam_fact = {1000,1100,1250,1500,2000},
  MP_intensity = {1000,1100,1210,1330,1460},

[erwizard 1]

Hello Toushiiro!

I am wondering if you have found the setup of the balance.txt which you were looking for,

If you it would be great if you could share it on this post, I am about to start my adventure and would be great to include it on my setup!!

[gogoblender 3,070]

17 minutes ago, erwizard said:

I am about to start my adventure and would be great to include it on my setup!!

Bravo erwizard... good luck on your journey 

and welcome to DArkMatters!

 

gogo

[Toushiiro 2]

Sadly I did not find out yet what Lines I have to alter to lower the niobium difficulty a bit.
It seems like it relys on way more lines than that because no matter what I tried I get melted from Rats with 1 hit.
Right now im kind of stuck at level 92 because I cant deal anything to Niob yet.