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CA and Spell Regeneration Formulae (+ Base Value)

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Brief note from me: (myles)

 

If you ask me, its about time this article resurface.

 

So yes this is also part of Librarian's treasure. I can't say this enough, I claim no credit for this excellent article.

 

After verifying close to 60% of all the CA across multiple levels in the original 6 characters, I finally convinced myself that the formula has remained the same in UW (Those I skipped are unpopular/pointless CAs like Knockback arrow). That said, if you do find a mistake let me know ASAP plz.

 

Quite a bit of balancing has been done since 1.66, but the majority of them are done on duration.

 

As far as I know, only the resourceful DA clan has a copy of this.

 

(I might not see everything like our mighty Carolyn, but I still try to keep track of things. Oh I try. :yay: But I'm curious, HOW did you find it Frost? I swear I have the only physical copy nowadays. :scratch:)

 

Anyway, this is an excellent article on the regeneration fomula. And yes I should have fork it over sooner, but RL is RL.

 

I did some minor editing and organizing here and there. For example, I removed outdating references like 1.7 UK version. I also formatted the article like my other guides, hopefully it will be more user-friendly.

 

"Edit" means the comments are from me.

 

As always, questions and comments are welcome.

 

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CA and Spell Regeneration times (by Telenochek and Covenant)

 

_______________________________________________

Original quote:

Submitted by Librarian on September 19, 2004 - 4:57pm.

Written by Covenant and Telenochek for Sacredins.com

_______________________________________________

 

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Sections

 

Note: Copy the section name to search jump.

 

1. Introduction

2. General Formula for Spells and Combat Arts

3. Examples of how to use the formula

4. Consequences of the formula

a) Independent factors: PR, C and RSM

b) The power of RSM items

c) Meditation = not related to MReg

d) RSM vs. Spell Regeneration (SR)

e) Importance of PReg

f) Importance of MReg

g) Meditation vs. Heavenly Magic

h) Animation time

I) Socketing runes with RSM and SR

j) Zero level CA regen timers

5. How to manage your regeneration time properly

6. Short Summary

7. Appendix

I) Ghost Meadow

ii) Traps

iii) Dwarf

iv) Vampiress

 

--------------------------------------------

 

1. Introduction

 

This is an article regarding calculation of Regeneration times for Spells and Combat Arts. It should give you a good idea how to develop your Combat Arts and Spells correctly and to make sure you are not waiting for 5 minutes before using each spell. Ultimately, regeneration times are all about maximizing your damage output. Some of these exact values may change in subsequent patches as the game is balanced by Ascaron, but it is very doubtful that the structure of the formulas will be changing. Don't freak out once you see the general formula, plenty of examples are provided ;)

 

Edit: Their prediction holds true. I have checked about 60% of all CAs for the original six characters up to level 150 (I don't have a character higher than that in UW, SP or HC). I'm convinced that the fomula stayed the same.

 

Not surprisingly, Ascaron used exactly the same formula structure for both Spells and CA regeneration times, which makes our task (and theirs) so much simpler. There are far too many spells and Combat Arts to try and develop a separate formula for each of them. And there is no need to do so either. We will be using Seraphim's, WoodElf and BattleMage's Spells and CAs as examples since these are the characters we are currently playing.

 

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2. General Formula for Spells and Combat Arts

 

Note: to keep the formulas appearance as simple as possible, the effect of Ghost Meadow, Vampirism, Ballistics and Trap Lore has been excluded from the Spell Formula. Please see Appendix. Don't worry, if you understand this formula, you will easily be able to extend it to those effects.

 

So here are the two formulas (one formula is for CA, the other one is for Spells):

 

___________________________________________

CA Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(CA runes read + CA runes socketed / 2) } *

{ 1 / 1 + PR } * {1 / 1 + C } * {1 / 1 + RSM }

___________________________________________

 

___________________________________________

Spell Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Spell runes read + Spell runes socketed / 2) } *

{ 1 / 1 + MR } * {1 / 1 + M + SR } * {1 / 1 + MS }

___________________________________________

 

Definitions and explanations of variables:

 

Basic Time - The "starting" point for Regeneration time. See the table provided at the end of the article.

 

Level Time - The factor by how much a CA/Spell increases its regeneration time if you are learning a higher level CA/Spell.

 

CA/Spell runes read - how many runes of that specific CA/spell you have read.

 

Spell runes socketed - how many runes of that specific CA/spell are provided by equipment (rings, amulets, armor ... etc)

 

PR - Physical Regeneration / 100 ; For example, if your Physical Regeneration is 48, you know that the regeneration time is reduced by 48%, or that PR = 0.48

 

MR - Mental Regeneration / 100 ; For example, if your Mental Regeneration is 48, you know that the regeneration time is reduced by 48%, or that MR = 0.48

 

C - Concentration factor; So if your Concentration is level 1 (or 12% regeneration bonus), then C = 0.12

 

M - Meditation factor; So if your Meditation is level 1 (or 12% regeneration bonus), then M = 0.12

 

RSM - "+ Regeneration Special Move" that is listed on items; If it says + Regeneration Special Move + 75 on a certain item, then regeneration time decreases by 75% or RSM = 0.75.

 

SR - Spell Regeneration factor that is listed on items; So if it says Spell Regeneration + 30 on a certain item, then SR = 0.30. Notice the Spell Regeneration is added to Meditation as opposed to having its own separate factor. Note that SR is the sum of all the equipped items.

 

Note: RSM works slightly differently from SR, because RSM has its own factor, whereas SR is added to M.

 

MS - Magic Specific Factor ; Magic Specific factor is the factor for skills like Heavenly Magic, Moon Magic etc... For example, if you have level 1 Heavenly Magic (6 % regen bonus), then MS = 0.06

 

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3. Examples of how to use the formula

 

Example# 1

 

Level 3 Anna (beautiful name for a Seraphim
;)
) has:

Meditation = level 0 (she doesn't have Meditation), so M = 0.00

Heavenly Magic = level 0 (she doesn't have Heavenly Magic either), so MS = 0.00

Mental Regeneration = 22; so MR = 0.22

Irritation runes read = 1

Irritation runes socketed = 0

Basic Irritation Time = 20 seconds (see Table of Basic Times)

Irritation Level Time = 12 seconds (see Table of Level Times)

Irritation level 1 regen time listed as = 26.2 seconds (as displayed in char. info)

 

Does this work with the formula?

[20 + 12] /(1.22) = 26.2 sec

Yes it does.

 

Example #2

 

Level 4 Anna, has 0 points in both Meditation and Heavenly Magic:

Meditation = level 0; M = 0.00

Heavenly Magic = level 0; MS = 0.00

Mental Regeneration = 26; MR = 0.26

Irritation runes read = 1

Irritation runes socketed = 0

Irritation regen. Time = 25.4 seconds

 

Does this work with the formula?

(20 + 12*(1+0))/(1.26) = 25.4 sec

Bingo.

 

Example #3

 

This time, lets see the effect of
Meditation
:

Level 3 Anna

Meditation = level 1 (12% regen. Increase); M = 0.12

Heavenly Magic = level 0; MS = 0.00

Mental Regeneration = 22

Irritation runes read = 1

Irritation runes socketed = 0

Irritation regen. Time = 23.4 seconds

 

Does this work with the formula?

(20+12) /( 1.12 * 1.22) = 23.42 = 23.4 sec

Correct.

 

Example #4

 

Now lets see the effect of
Heavenly Magic
on regen. time:

Heavenly magic is half as effective as Meditation at reducing regeneration times, because it has half the percentage in progression table.

 

Edit:
For a direct comparison between
Meditation
&
Heavenly Magic
, refer to section 4g : Meditation vs. Heavenly Magic.

 

Anna level 3 has:

Meditation = level 0; M = 0

Heavenly Magic = level 1 (6% regen. increase); MS= 0.06 (half as effective as Meditation lvl1)

Mental Regen. = 22; MR = 0.22

Irritation runes read = 1

Irritation runes socketed = 0

Irritation time = 24.7 seconds

 

Does this work?

Lets check: (20 + 12)/(1.22*1.06) = 24.74 = 24.7 sec

Correct.

 

Example #5

 

Level 7 Anna has:

Mental Regeneration = 32

Heavenly magic = level 0; MS = 0.00

Meditation = level 0: M = 0.00

Irritation runes read = 2;

Irritation runes socketed = 0;

Irritation regen time = 33.3 seconds

 

Does this work with the formula?

(20 + 12*2) / 1.32 = 33.3 sec

Correct.

 

Example #6

 

What will happen on very
high level
? Is it still working?:

Level 200 wood elf, with a typical mage skills:

Mental Regeneration = 713

Moon magic = 146% (level 149); MS = 1.46

Meditation = 193% (level 150); M = 1.93

SR on items = 216 (100 on a rare shield and 116 on israfaels armor niob version)

CoA runes read = 255 (CoA = Call of the Ancestors)

CoA runes socketed = 6

CoA regen time = 51.0 seconds

 

Does this work with the formula?

(40 + 24 *(255 + 6/2)) / ( (1+7.13) * (1+1.46) * (1 + 2.16 + 2.93 ) ) = 51.166 sec

 

Why is this not exactly 51.0?

Well, the values of meditation and moonmagic are only rounded numbers. So I guess level 150 meditation is more like 193.5% than 193.0%, or it's 146.5% moonmagic. So the result could differ a bit from the display in sacred, but it's not the fault of the formulas but rather due to the rounding problems of the input data.

 

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4. Consequences of the formula

 

The most interesting section ;)

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Subsection List:

 

a) Independent factors: PR, C and RSM

b) The power of RSM items

c) Meditation = not related to MReg

d) RSM vs. Spell Regeneration (SR)

e) Importance of PReg

f) Importance of MReg

g) Meditation vs. Heavenly Magic

h) Animation time

I) Socketing runes with RSM and SR

j) Zero level CA regen timers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

-----------------------

a) Independent factors: PR, C and RSM

 

Physical Regeneration (PR), Concentration © and +Regeneration Special Move (RSM) are all independent multiplicative factors in the formula

 

What this means is that you are trying to maximize the product of these factors in order to get the lowest regeneration time. Lets see how to do that most efficiently.

 

You have a product of 3 factors (1+X)(1+Y)(1+Z) and you want to make it as large as possible and as efficiently as possible. Lets see some examples.

 

Suppose that X=Y=Z=1

What the product?

Product = 2^3 = 8

 

Now suppose you have exactly 3 points that you can spend however you like.

What would be the best way to spend these 3 points to achieve the lowest regen. time?

 

I)
lets try to put all 3 of these points in X:

so factor X = 1+3 = 4, Y = 1, Z = 1;

Product = 5*2*2=20

 

ii)
lets try to put 2 points in X and 1 point in Y:

so X = 1+2 = 3; Y = 2, Z = 1;

Product = 4*3*2=24

Nice! It's bigger!

 

iii)
lets try to put 1 point in X, 1 point in Y and 1 point in Z:

so X = 2, Y = 2, Z=2

Product = 3*3*3 = 27

This is the biggest number you can get!

 

Conclusion: To achieve lowest regeneration time, spread points as evenly as possible between Physical Regen, Concentration and +RSM! This fact can be quickly proven in the general case using the theorem of Lagrange multipliers.

 

Note: If you know how it works, try maximizing the function (A+X)(A+Y)(A+Z) subject to constraint X+Y+Z = B, where B is positive, and you will find that the maximum is achieved when X=Y=Z.

 

-----------------------

 

b) The power of RSM items

 

+Regeneration Special Move items are incredibly powerful

 

It is not uncommon to find items with +50 Regeneration Special Move modifiers even at very low levels (like level 10). If you take a look at Concentration Progression table, an item with +50 Regen. Special Move is equivalent to 7 levels of Concentration. An item with +100 Regen. Special Move is equivalent to level 16 Concentration. Incredibly powerful!

 

Utilize a couple of items with these modifiers and save yourself some points on Concentration, or use these modifiers to help out if you are having trouble keeping your regen. times low!

 

+Regeneration Special Move is very important at high levels to keep your regen times low while using a higher level CA/Spell. It's quite easy to get +100 RSM, but +300 RSM is highly recommended (sounds like a lot if starting a new character, but later in the game, +300 RSM will be provided by 3 or maybe 4 rare items).

 

A +300 RSM on items will divide your regeneration time by 4. 1/(1+RSM) = 1/(1+3) In other words you can read 4 times as many runes and still get the same regen time, compared to not using any +RSM items. And, of course, if the level of your CA/Spell is 4 times larger you are doing a huge amount of damage.

 

-----------------------

 

c) Meditation = not related to MReg

 

Meditation has nothing to do with Mental Regeneration, despite the fact that the game says so

 

Meditation (M) and Mental Regeneration are two completely separate factors.

Meditation does not increase Mental Regeneration in any way.

 

However, +Spell Regeneration and Meditation are not separate.

They are added together before you divide by them.

 

Therefore, keep in mind, that a high bonus from +Spell Regeneration items will lower the usefullness of meditation

 

Note: See some examples and calculations further down at d)

 

-----------------------

 

d) RSM vs. Spell Regeneration (SR)

 

+Regen Special Move compared to + Regen Spells

 

Since + Regen Special Move has its own factor, whereas +Spell Regen is added to Meditation first, + Regeneration Special Move is a lot more powerful than +Spell Regen if you happen to have Meditation.

 

If you don't have any points in Meditation at all, or in other words M = 0, then +Spell Regen. factor is exactly the same as +Regen special move. However, if you have a lot of points in Meditation, then +SR is not too effective.

 

Examples of how this works:

 

A:
Suppose you have + 100 Regen Special Move and your Concentration is level 16 (98% )

Your regeneration time is reduced by a factor of (1+1)*(1+0.98) = 3.96 or about a factor of 4

 

B:
Suppose you have +100 Spell Regen and your Meditation is level 16 (98%)

Your regeneration time is reduced by a factor of (1+1+0.98) = 2.98 or about a factor of 3

Meditation and +Spell Regen modifier make each other a lot less effective.

 

Therefore it might be a good idea to skip Meditation completely and instead use +SR items to reduce your regeneration time, if you are playing a hybrid character and are very short on skills. This decision is entirely up to you. On the other hand, if you playing a primarily magic-oriented character, skipping Meditation is not a good idea. At least some points in Meditation are recommended. At higher levels , Specific Magic skills will hit diminishing returns and a few points in Meditation will definitely be more effective than trying to increase the level of your Specific Magic skills once they have hit diminishing returns. It could also save you a couple of slots (so that you don't have to socket too much +SR).

 

Compared to Meditation, Specific magic skills (Heavenly magic, Moon Magic etc..) are invaluable, because they have their own factors and remember that they also reduce animation time of spells!

 

Note: Please see part g) : Meditation vs. Heavenly Magic for more comparison of Heavenly Magic and Meditation.

 

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e) Importance of PReg

 

Physical Regeneration is a very powerful attribute because it allows you to use higher level CAs

 

Physical regeneration allows you to maximize your damage at higher levels. Lets face it, the way this game is designed, its all about Spells and Combat Arts. The bonuses on Spells and Combat Arts are way too good to pass up, therefore at higher character levels it is beneficial to NEVER use your normal attack but instead rely on a set of Combat Arts or Spells (or Combat Arts AND Spells if you are a hybrid).

 

At higher levels of play, its hard to find a skill that can beat Physical Regeneration at maximizing damage. Lets take a ranged combat Wood Elf as an example. We've got two choices here, Physical Regeneration (PR) or Dexterity (Dex). PR will increase about 2.1 per level, Dex 2.9 per level automatically. So we have one free point to spend.

 

Let's assume we've got a level 50 woodelf. Here is a very typical character setup:

 

Given:
Concentration is up to 150%; C =1.5 and we have +100 regen. special move on our equipment and shooting with Multihit mainly.

 

Woodelf #1

without any extra points in PR: 124 points PR, so Multihit level 5 (with 1 read rune and 4 socketed runes) has:

(5 + 3*(1 +4/2)) / ( (1 +1.24) * (1+1) *(1 + 1.5) ) = 1.25s regen time and very nice to play with.

 

Woodelf #2

with the same equipment, but all free points in pR (173), first we try multihit again an level 5:

(5 + 3*(1 +4/2)) / ( (1 +1.73) * (1+1) *(1 + 1.5) ) = 1.02s

and we've got a 22% faster regeneration of Multihit.

So if your WoodElf keeps shooting for about for about 10s, WoodElf#2 will shoot nearly 10 times, while #1 only 8 times.

Suppose we increase the regeneration time on WoodElf#2 to 1.25 seconds by socketing 2 extra runes:

So now we have overall 1 rune read and 6 socketed on the equipment:

(5 + 3*(1 +6/2)) / ( (1 +1.73) * (1+1) *(1 + 1.5) ) = 1.245s

So #2 can use their CA at the same speed as #1, but the CA is 2 levels higher!

 

What does this mean in terms of damage? This gives a nice +10% damage of the overall damage in WoodElf #2 compared to WoodElf #1. Now, before you conclude that this is not very impressive, let us point out one very important thing: This extra damage bonus is multiplied (not added to) by the weapon lore bonus! At higher levels multiplicative effects always win over additive effects.

 

So, WoodElf #1 could spend their points on Dexterity (220 dex instead of 171) but the damage boost of Dex (only increasing physical and fire damage (at least in ranged combat)) is additive with the weapon lore extra damage. Whereas the higher CA level that you can use with physical regeneration is multiplicative with the weapon lore and affects all types of damage!

 

So with lots of points in weapon lore, the damage boost provided by Dexterity, cannot really compete with the higher CA level damage boost allowed by Physical Regeneration. And you've got the +hitpoints using physical regeneration as well!

 

This effect is even stronger at higher levels. For example, a level 150 WoodElf without spending any points on PR has 334 points in PR, with spending every point on PR it's about 483. So the difference of no-PR (quotient of 4.34 in the formula) to PR-only (5.83) is even bigger than on level 50 with around 34% faster regeneration (or a 34% higher CA level, keep in mind that CA regen. time has a linear dependence on CA level (just look at the formula)).

 

Conclusion: Strength and Weapon Lore weapon bonus are added to each other. But the damage bonus of CAs is multiplied with the bonus of Weapon Lore. So PR is much more effective than Strength or Dexterity.

 

-----------------------

 

f) Importance of MReg

 

Mental Regeneration

 

Exactly the same ideas as in e) and a) apply to Mental Regeneration and regeneration time.

 

Usually there is no way around Mental Regen for a caster-type build. You desperately need higher levels of Spells to be able to kill the bad guys. And the only way to have higher levels of Spells is to somehow keep the regeneration times low. You need Mental Regeneration. Keep in mind that Mental Regeneration also directly increases the damage of spells.

 

-----------------------

 

g) Meditation vs. Heavenly Magic

 

Dispelling the Myth about Meditation and Heavenly Magic

 

There is a myth circulating that Meditation is better than Heavenly Magic at higher levels, because it says in the description that it "increases Mental Regeneration". What Ascaron probably meant to put there is that Meditation increases Spell Regeneration rate. (SR is added to M) Meditation does NOT increase mental Regeneration in any way.

 

Although Heavenly Magic lists 1/2 the percentage of Meditation in progression table, it can easily become more powerful than meditation, even if you ignore the increase in animation time.

 

Yes, Heavenly Magic lists 1/2 the percentage and even if you ignore the animation time bonus (which is great), it still can become more powerful than Meditation. What:) How is this possible?

 

Lets take a look at the quotients: Heavenly Magic has 'its own' quotient (1+MS) but Meditation has to share it with +Spell Regen. In fact, as soon as you have at least +100 regenerate Spells on the equipment, Heavenly Magic is equally powerful as Meditation.

 

Example:

 

1)
Suppose you have a hypothetical spell called MoonShine (;-) and that it has a base regen. time of 100seconds.

 

2)
Suppose you have equipped an item with +100 Spell Regen; (SR=100)

 

Lets compare the effects of Heavenly Magic and Meditation by spending 50 point in each in turn.

 

Calculation:

 

So you put
50 points in Meditation
(198% in progression table),

regen time = 100s/(1+1+1.98) =
25.1seconds

 

50 points in Heavenly Magic
gives (99% in progression table),

regen time = 100s/((1+1)*(1+0.99)) =
25.1 seconds

 

Result:
So in this particular example, putting 50 points in Heavenly Magic gives exactly the same result as putting 50 points in Meditation.

 

Example 2:

 

Expanding from the MoonShine example above, if you have an even larger +SR bonus equipped, meditation will be worse than heavenly magic.

 

1)
Suppose you had +300 SR.

 

Calculation:

 

50points on Meditation only:

100/ ( 1 + 3 +1.98) =
16.7s

 

50points on Heavenly Magic:

100/ ( ( 1+3) * (1+0.99) ) =
12.6s

 

Result:
So when your character is low level (when it could be hard to get even +50 reg spells) you should keep Meditation a bit higher than the specific magic, but on higher levels with tons of +reg spells items , the specific magic is far better than Meditation.

 

Conclusion: The 'best' is a mix of both. So 10 Meditation and 40 Heavenly Magic will get us:

100 / ( ( 1 + 3 + 0.69) * ( 1 + 0.88 ) ) = 11.3s

 

Note: Of course, Heavenly Magic also has the bonus of decreasing animation times.

 

-----------------------

 

h) Animation time

 

Minimum regeneration time vs. Animation time

 

The minimum regeneration time is 0. The formulas work out so that you can never reach 0 regeneration time, since its not possible to increase PR or Concentration to infinite values. You would expect that the ACTUALLY MEANINGFUL minimum regeneration time is the time it takes your character to perform the CA/Spell (spell-CA animation time). However at higher levels there are many different things you have to take into account, so here is a flavor of it:

 

There are some CAs which need some time to be completed, like attack on the woodelf. If you get the regen time as low as the time it takes to complete the attack, it's very nice to attack everytime and don't even think about using the 'normal' left mouse button attack. But there are other CAs which start regenerating after the last hit of CA completes, so you'll really need a very very low regen time, to compete with an angry mob around you (so you never get out of life with life-leech).

 

-----------------------

 

I) Socketing runes with RSM and SR

 

About socketing runes and + Spell Regen and +Regen SM modifiers

 

Even though +Spell Regen items are powerful, Meditation is still pretty decent because for your spells to be effective you will need to keep increasing the level of the spell, and Meditation could work to keep regen times from becoming huge.

 

However, at higher levels, there are TONS of + Spell Regen items. And as have been pointed out many times in this article, Meditation and +SR make each other a lot less effective.

 

With an item +200 regen spells, its exactly the same as having 50 points on meditation. So If you are planning a hybrid build (hybrid = short on skills) and you plan to get to higher levels, you might want to try and "optimize" your build by leaving meditation out and only put points in the specific magic. Specific magic with a few powerful +Spell regen items will be quite effective and Meditation won't help THAT much.

 

So what about socketing runes? When you socket runes, the regeneration time increases by half as much as it would if you read the rune. Whether you want to rely on socketing runes or not, depends on how you are planning to use that particular spell.

 

If it's a Spell which you don't need every second, maybe its only a supporting/additional CA, then reading runes is fine. But if you're planning to use the CA as the main attacking option (WE multihit) and want it to use constantly, the best way to go is to try and reach a high level of that CA by reading ONLY one rune, and socketing the rest (there are items with +13 Multihit also which you can use etc..)

 

Example by Covenant:

 

I've played a range-combat woodelf with mainly multihit up to charlevel ~150. She's got a multihit level of about 36 with 0.8s regtime.

 

I've only read 1 single rune, the rest is equipment (+13 bow, +8 gloves, several +2 or +4 multihit amu/rings, tons of +reg CA (around 400 I guess) and of course PR-only and high (110 points (?)) concentration.

I don't want to miss the +155% damage boost of the level 36 multihit.

Without the socketing/equipment I think I have to shoot with level ~18 multihit (only +65% damage boost).

 

Conclusion:
As long as you can reach 'planned' CA level with the equipment you shouldn't read more than one single rune of this CA.

 

Another example why socketing is so powerful:

 

Let's take the typical melee-combat char which is using Attack as main CA. (Note: for this example, WoodElf data is used actually)

 

Given:
18 points concentration (103%); C = 1.03

No items with +Regen Special Move equipped; RSM = 0

80 points PR (all free points spent on Physical Regeneration); PR = 0.80

1 attack rune read and 3 vampire runes with +1 attack each are already socketed (9% lifeleech is very important, so vampire runes are very welcome).

 

Our starting point is now:

(10 + 6* (1 + 3/2)) / ( (1+0.8)*(1+1.03)*(1+0) ) = 6.84s

It's quite long, but it's only a low level char and only -5% damage for a very very fast attack isn't that bad.

 

Expanding from the example above:

 

Given:
Suppose we now socket an extra 2 attack runes, but specific to the gladiator class!: Gladiator runes grant +10 RSM.

 

How do they affect our regen times?

So we're going to socket 2 extra runes, but also get +0.2 for RSM:

(10 + 6* (1 + 5/2)) / ( (1+0.8)*(1+1.03)*(1+0.2)) = 7.07s

Hey, the regen times haven't increased too much, but the damage is now +5% instead of -5%!

 

Conclusion: Try using Concentration, tons of +Regen Special Move and PR, and socketing everything. There are plenty of rare weapons/gloves/belts/armors/... with +CA.

 

Note: In case you think +10% is not that huge of deal, remember that this 10% increase in damage is A TRUE 10% INCREASE. Many 10% increases in this game are MISLEADING. For example, when you increase you weapon lore % from 150% to 160% the % increase is not 10%, it is 160/150 - 1 = ONLY 6.6% increase. So a true 10% increase is very good!

 

-----------------------

 

j) Zero level CA regen timers

 

Just something I noticed, ignore this part

 

Unless you plan to test these formulas for CA/Spells with 0 levels of that CA or Spell.

 

If you don't have the spell or CA at all, then the effects are not displayed for Concentration and Heavenly Magic, but they are displayed for Physical Regen., Mental Regen. and Meditation. Everything is calculated correctly, just not all of it is displayed properly if you don't have any levels of a spell/CA.

 

Example:

 

Suppose that you don't have BeeEffGee at all:

You can put your pointer over the BeeEffGee slot and you will see regen times... etc. Suppose you that is says BeeEffGee 30 seconds regen. Now if you increase Concentration, it will still say 30 seconds regen., because you don't have BeeEffGee, so if you actually read a BeeeffGee rune, its regen time will not be 30seconds, (because it IS affected by concentration).

 

On the other hand if you increase Physical Regen, you will see that the regeneration time for BeeEffGee is no longer 30seconds, even though you don't have any levels of it. Just the way stuff is displayed in Sacred. If you are confused about 10), just don't worry about it, it doesn't affect gameplay at all. I just decided to point it out, in case you did not have any levels of a certain CA/spell, then researched Concentration and wondered why it doesn't show the decrease in regeneration time. Its because you don't have the CA/Spell.

 

--------------------------------------------

 

5. How to manage your regeneration time properly

 

A short guide and some tips

 

Many new players read every single rune they find, then they exchange the other class runes at the Combo Master and read some more runes! It is a very empowering feeling to have those CA and Spells at high level and doing uber damage, yes? Don't worry we have all done it ;)

 

It is best to do it differently though. For example, when my Seraphima was level 37, she had 0 spells researched despite being a hybrid build. That's right, she didn't have a single spell! She also only had 3 Combat Arts researched and all 3 of them were still at level 1. She had 62 runes for my character saved in a stash for later use. 10 runes for Irritation, 10 runes for Combat Kick, 10 runes for Combat Jump , 17 Runes for Lightning strike etc... Many of them were obtained by exchanging 4:1 ratio using other class' runes. And no, the runes were not transferred from another character, she got them on her own.

 

Just in case you were wondering why my hybrid build Seraphima did not have any spells researched, the reason is this:

 

she passed Silver at level 36, and in Gold she really needed her spells to be higher level to be even remotely effective.

Unfortunately, the regeneration times for level of spells THAT high were quite considerable, because My character was focusing more on her melee fighting skills up to this point, and had not developed high enough Heavenly Magic and Meditation yet. So she was keeping the runes until she developed her magic regen. skills.

 

In case you are wondering why not just read the runes, why keep them in the stash? The answer is: you get less rune drops the more runes you read. So, how do you get more runes? Mirko has posted that there is a rune drop factor, the bigger that factor is, the less runedrops you get:

 

* Read runes count as 100%

* Socketed count as 75%

* Carried runes count as 50%

* Runes saved in a stash count as 50% towards this factor.

 

You will get ridiculous amounts of rune drops if you keep the factor as low as possible. So try to have as little runes read as possible; try to have most of the runes saved away in a stash. How can you have as little runes as possible?

 

First of all, exchange the other class' runes as often as you can for one of your own (except Life Leech). Secondly , only read as many runes as are beneficial to you! Thirdly, don't research your own CA/skills that you don't need. For example, my seraphim will never research BeeEffGee even in Nyobium, because she is not designed as a BeeEffGee build so I just treat BeeEffGee as it if was a rune for another class (I exchange it).

 

Not reading every rune you find is beneficial to you. So when should you read a rune? The answer is easy: if reading a rune will increase the damage of your spell by 15%, while increasing your regen time by 50%, there is no reason to read this rune. Just compare the benefits you get before you read the rune, and you will know whether to read it or not.

 

There are only 2 exceptions to this rule:

 

* When regeneration time is already short enough for you to use it conveniently, even though the regen time increase outweighs the bonuses provided by the rune

* Spells that have a long duration, or the "cast it and forget it" type spells, such as Strength Of Faith. You can afford to read a couple extra runes with those spells.

 

On the other hand, if you plan to play a character who heavily relies on spells, you have a problem! You will need to pump those spells high in level to make them effective! Forget killing anything in Gold with a level 1 spell ;) (especially in Platinum, Nyobium) So when planning your character build, make sure your skills are sufficient to keep the regeneration times down. But there is no reason to have your lightning strike at 20 seconds regeneration time and doing 2 million damage, unless you only plan to use it versus bosses and such.

 

NEVER EVER read runes to increase your CA/Spell level unless you know that it will be beneficial. Only read runes when you need to and when your regen. time is already low enough that you can afford it.

 

If you are having SEVERE problems keeping your regen. time down, you either

 

* have insufficient skills to keep the regen. time down

* have read too many runes
:)

 

--------------------------------------------

 

6. Short Summary

 

1) Physical Regeneration, Concentration and +RSM are all independent multiplicative factors.

 

2) Same holds for MR, (M +SR) and MS.

 

3) +Regeneration Special Move and + Spell Regeneration items are very very powerful.

 

4) +SR is just as powerful as +RSM, if you don't have Meditation.

 

5) If you have Meditation, +SR is a lot less effective.

 

6) Meditation does not increase Mental Regeneration despite what the game says. They are two completely different factors.

 

7) Putting points into Physical Regen is the best way to get more life and more damage through higher CA-levels and even more attack rating (remember, Combat Arts have +Attack Rating on them) and the effect of higher CA-levels is multiplicative to weapon lore (instead of being additive like strength or dex (and strength and dex only increase the physical damage, not the magic damage of your weapons)).

 

8) Mental regeneration is nearly the only option for caster characters, unless they desperately need more life.

 

9) Always estimate what the pros and cons are of reading a rune, before reading it. Reading runes left and right hurts you in two ways: you get less runes and your regen times go up.

 

10) 0 seconds is the minimum regen time, but you should consider how you are going to use your CA or Spell. Is it your main damage spell or is it something you will use only once in a while? (See section 4i : Socketing runes with RSM and SR)

 

Hopefully, you enjoyed this article, and if you have any comments or if you think some of the information is wrong or needs modification just PM (Private Message) us on Ascaron Official forum.

Usernames : Cov242 / Covenant (international / german forums) and Telenochek (international forum)

 

Edit: I left the passage alone, but both of them are inactive in the forum anymore. (I think the purges have removed their forum accounts too) PM me instead, I should be around for quite some time. ;)

 

Cheers and Happy Goblin Hunting!

 

--------------------------------------------

 

7. Appendix

 

-----------------------

 

I) Ghost Meadow

 

Effect of Ghost Meadow on regen times

 

Again, the descriptions in the game are very misleading. Ghost Meadow doesn't increase Mental Regeneration in any form. Ghost Meadow is quite different from all the other modifiers and has a strange contribution to the formula as follows:

 

__________________________________________________

Spell Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Spell runes read + Spell runes socketed / 2) } *

[{ 1 / (1 + MR) } * {1 / (1 + M + SR) } + GM ] * {1 / (1 + MS) }

__________________________________________________

 

If Ghost Meadow says 150% then GM = 1.5 All the variables are the same as used throughout the article, with the addition of GM. The Ghost Meadow increase is as follows: GM = 1.35 + 0.15 * Ghost Meadow Level. So if your ghost meadow is level 1 then GM = 1.5, level 2 GM = 1.65 etc..

 

Obviously the calculation gets a bit strange with GM, because it's not a factor like everything else, but additive to the other things. So a level 1 GM could be very useful on lower level characters when MR, SM, SR and M are all quite small and therefore GM will have a large addition. But on a char with high values of MR, SM, SR and M, Ghost Meadow effects are pretty useless. In other words you have to push Ghost Meadow to very high level as well to be effective.

 

Edit: This explains why GM actually works on CA only characters, as GM too has nothing to do with MR. In other words, GM is applied to both CA and spell equation (it was probably overlooked by the developers since BM had no CA).

 

-----------------------

 

ii) Traps

 

Regenerating traps

 

Well, the melee/combat arts of the Dark Elf are calculated exactly like all the other CAs (so PR, RSM and concentration), but the Dark Arts are quite different from your typical spells (all the traps, adrenaline.. etc, right side). These are influenced by PR, RSM, TrapLore (TL) and Ballistics (B), and all 4 are independent multiplicative factors:

 

__________________________________________________

Trap Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Runes read + Runes socketed / 2) } *

{ 1 / (1 + PR) } * {1 / (1 + RSM) } * {1 / (1 + TL) } * {1 / (1 + B) }

__________________________________________________

 

So the Dark Arts are not your typical "magic" spells, from the formula we see that the importance of TrapLore is increased. (if you thought that Trap Lore was equivalent to Meditation )

 

-----------------------

 

iii) Dwarf

 

Dwarwen Arts

 

Edit: I haven't check on the Dwarf yet, I believe its the same formula as the DE but let's not jump to conclusion here.

 

-----------------------

 

iv) Vampiress

 

Regeneration times of the Vampiress

 

Knight:

 

The effects of lowering Combat Arts for the Vampiress are a little bit more complicated, because she has 3 different skills to reduce them. Concentration for the Knight-CAs, Vampirism for Vamp-CAs and Vampirism (V) + BloodLust (BL) for Vamp-'Spells'.

 

Lets start with the easier parts first: the Knigh-CAs are influenced by RSM, PR anc Conc.

So they are calculated exactly like all the other CAs.

 

Vamp:

 

Next step are the Vampiress-CA (the left side of the menu, while being a vampiress).

They are influenced by RSM, PR (vampiress-PR, a bit lower than beeing Knight) and Vampirism. (no Concentration here)

 

__________________________________________________

CA Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Runes read + Runes socketed / 2) } *

{ 1 / (1 + PR) } * {1 / (1 + RSM) } * {1 / (1 + V) }

__________________________________________________

 

V
- Vampirism-effect (like Concentration)

 

So no big suprpirse here, but keep in mind, that Concentration is useless for a vampire-only build which doesn't fight as a knight.

 

Vamp + BloodLust:

 

What's about the Special-Vampire-Arts (like the bats, bloodkiss, etc.) ? As stated above, they are influenced by PR, RSM, Vampirism and BloodLust. (so again, these are not your typical 'Spells' because they are influenced by PR and RSM)

 

__________________________________________________

CA Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Runes read + Runes socketed / 2) } *

{ 1 / (1 + PR) } * {1 / (1 + RSM) } * {1 / (1 + V) * {1 / (1 + BL) }

__________________________________________________

 

V
- Vampirism

BL
- BloodLust

 

Again, they are 4 independent factors, so it should be easier to get very low regen times at higher levels. (Remember that multiplicative effects are very powerful at higher levels).

 

--------------------------------------------

The End.

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Brief notes from me again:

 

So this is the second part of the guide. These numbers are handy for your planning phrase. A number of things can be explained thru them as well.

 

For example, the regeneration of Attack for a Vampiress is faster in Vamp form. This different will be significant when Attack's level is very high.

 

Anyway, I was going to put it in a less straight down fashion, but I got a new project. Yikes. So never mind that.

 

There isn't any value for Dwarf and Daemon, if you want to calculate them be my guest. Or, I will get back to it when I'm done with my project.

 

Don't hesitate to PM me if there is an error though. :yay:

 

--------------------------------------------

 

CA Regeneration Values

 

_______________________________________________

Original Quote:

Submitted by Librarian on October 5, 2004 - 3:29pm. Combat Arts

Written by Covenant and Telenochek for Sacredins.com

_______________________________________________

 

-----------------------

Sections

 

Note: Copy the section name to search jump.

 

1. Battle Mage

2. Daemon

3. Dark Elf

4. Dwarf

5. Gladiator

6. Seraphim

7. Vampiress

8. Wood Elf

-----------------------

_______________________________________________

Legend:

 

[Character]

[Combat arts grouped by type]

[Combat art name] : [base time] / [Level time]

 

Base time - CA/Spell reg time at level 1 with 0 in related skills and attributes

 

Level time - CA/Spell increase after reading a rune with 0 in related skills and attributes (this value is equal throughout all CA/Spell levels)

_______________________________________________

 

--------------------------------------------

 

1. BATTLE MAGE

 

Spells

 

Fireball: 3/3

Flameskin: 40/24

Purgatory: 20/12

Fire Spiral: 20/12

 

Stoneskin: 40/24

Petrification: 20/12

Circle of Fear: 16/4

Meteor: 10/5

 

Whirlwind: 40/24

Gust of Wind: 5/3

Phase Shift: 10/2

LightningStrike: 5/3

 

Cataract of Ag.: 30/18

Ice Shards: 5/3

Ice Ring: 20/12

Water Form: 30/18

 

Spirit. Healing: 2/10

Shield Wall: 30/18

Ghost Meadow: 15/9

Reiki: 15/9

 

--------------------------------------------

 

2. DAEMON

 

In Progress

 

--------------------------------------------

 

3. DARK ELF

 

CAs

 

HH (Revenge): 5/3

MH (Sudden Fury): 5/3

Combat Kick: 5/3

Attack(Rage): 12/7

Soul Catcher: 20/12

Cobra: 20/12

Pak-Nakor: 30/18

Pak-Dain: 30/18

Mongoose: 4/2

 

Dark Arts

 

Battle Fog: 5/3

Poison Mist: 5/3

Confusion: 4/2

Bottomles Pit: 6/4

ExplosiveCharge: 5/3

Testosterone: 20/12

Adrenaline: 20/12

 

--------------------------------------------

 

4. Dwarf

 

In Progress

 

--------------------------------------------

 

5. GLADIATOR

 

CAs

 

Stomping Jump: 9/6

Throwing Blades: 3/2

FistoftheGods: 7/4

Back-breaker: 10/6

Awe: 10/6

Heroic Courage: 20/12

Dagger Stare: 30/18

Combat Kick: 5/3

Hard Hit: 5/3

Multi-Hit: 5/3

Attack: 10/5

 

--------------------------------------------

 

6. SERAPHIM

 

Spells

 

Irritation: 20/12

Conversion: 40/24

Rotating Blades Of Light: 30/18

Celestial Light : 20/12

Lightning Strike: 3/3

Light Shield 40/24

Strength Of Faith: 40/24

Energy Bolts: 40/24

Light: 30/18

 

CAs

 

Hard Hit: 5/3

Multi Hit: 5/3

Combat Kick: 5/3

Attack: 10/6

BeeEffGee: 40/24

Hunter Seeker: 12/8

Whirling Hit: 20/12

Combat Jump 9/6

 

--------------------------------------------

 

7. VAMPIRESS

 

Knight-CAs

 

Turn to Vampire: 18/12

HardHit: 5/3

Attack: 10/6

MultiHit: 5/3

Combat Kick: 5/3

Wolf: 30/18

Mind Control: 20/12

Time Control: 4/3

 

Vamp-CAs

 

Turn to Knight: 1.2 always

HardHit: 5/3

Attack: 8/5

MultiHit: 5/3

Combat Kick: 5/3

Wolf: 30/18

Mind Control: 15/9

Time Control: 4/3

 

Vamp Arts

 

Blood Kiss: 12/8

Blood Bite: 9/6

Master Bite: 24/16

Claw Jump: 9/6

Awaken Dead: 20/12

Bats: 40/24

 

--------------------------------------------

 

8. WOOD ELF

 

CAs

 

Spider: 15/9

Knockback: 7/4.2

Penetrating: 10/6

Explosive: 7/5.5

Multishot: 25/15

Multihit: 5/3

Hardhit: 5/3

Eye for an Eye: 10/6

 

Spells

 

Transformation: 25/15

Thorn Bush: 5/3

Poisoned Tendrils: 25/15

Plant Cage: 20/12

CotA: 40/24

Recuperation: 2/10

Quick as a Flash: 30/18

 

--------------------------------------------

The End.

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I Calculated Basic Time and Level Time for Dwarf and Daemon.. A special thanks to Myleslhk for pubblishing this guide here, and allowing me to translate it in italian in order to put it in The Official Italian Forum for Sacred..

 

2 ) Daemon:

Spells:
  • Blazing Disc : 30/18
  • Call of Death : 20/12
  • Infernal Power : 20/12
  • Hell Sphere : 25/15
  • Tentacles : 30/18
  • Abysmal Choir : 15/9
  • Dread : 15/4

Combat Arts:

  • Battle Daemon : 20/12
  • Assail :8/4
  • Soaring Daemon : 20/12
  • Descent : 3/1
  • Fire Daemon : 20/12
  • Wall of Flames : 6/4
  • Poison Daemon : 20/12
  • Poison Ring : 6/4
  • Energy Daemon : 20/12
  • Charged Bolts : 6/4

4 ) Dwarf:

Combat Arts:
  • Assault : 10/5
  • Wrath : 5/3
  • Heavy Blow : 5/3
  • Battle Rage : 20/12
  • Recoil : 7/4
  • Vehemence : 7/4
  • War Cry : 16/6

Tecnologies:

  • Flame Thrower : 15/9
  • Mortar Grenade : 10/6
  • Cannon Blast : 6/4
  • Greed : 6/4
  • Mine Esplosive : 20/12
  • Entrench : 5/3
  • Dwarven Armor : 30/18
  • Dwarven Steel : 20/12

Enjoy your Sacred!

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Guest FrostElfTwin

Base CA regeneration time formula should have a GM term.

 

GM affects both CAs and Spells, so it should be made clear to everyone that the Battle Mage the dog of Ancaria (is your best friend). :whistle:

 

 

(Again...please move me to guides in progress section)! (or make me go away...)

 

*Hangs head in embaressment.*

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Um, its a good argument to put GM in altogether. I'm reluctant to do it because it may be confusing, its more straight forward with the CA/spell distinction.

 

(And don't worry about posting here, I'm so busy to make a big update lately, so no sweat)

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Note:

 

In the Wood Elf list of CAs, the unicorn misses.

 

Companion of the woods: 40/24

 

I provided to update the DarkMatters Wikipedia, but I can't update this guide and that one in the sif, at the moment.

 

Thank you :lol:

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Hi ^_^

 

To anyone that is comfortable with these formulaes, I have to ask something, because I can't simply understand the hidden work of the CA "turn to knight".

 

In the guide it's written that it has a fixed regeneration time of 1.2 seconds, but it is simply wrong.

 

The formula (Vampiress): { Basic Time + Level Time * (CA runes read + CA runes socketed / 2) } / { ( 1 + PR } * ( 1 + V ) * ( 1 + RSM ) }

 

Note: having the CA "turn to knight" at level 255 or 1 doesn't affect regeneration time, so the formula could be written so => { Basic Time } / { ( 1 + PR } * ( 1 + V ) * ( 1 + RSM ) }

 

Example 01:

 

Vampiress level 01.

Phisical Regeneration before turning into a Vampire: 22 (0,22)

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 18 (0,18)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move and 0 Points into Vampirism.

 

The CA regenerates in 2,5 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 22 => 2,5 = { X } / { ( 1 + 0,22 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 2,5 = X / 1,22 => X = 3,05 (Basic Value)

By assuming that it works with PR= 18 => 2,5 = { X } / { ( 1 + 0,18 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 2,5 = X / 1,18 => X = 2,95 (Basic Value)

 

But what value of PR do we have to consider?

Let's try with another CA of which we are sure of the basic values of regeneration: HardHit (base=5, rune = 3)

 

Test 02

 

Vampiress level 150. Ca => Hard hit level 50

Phisical Regeneration before turning into a Vampire: 349 (3,49)

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 2,86 (2,86)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move and 0 Points into Vampirism and Concentration.

 

By assuming that it works with PR= 349 => X = { 5 + 3 * (50 + 0) } / { ( 1 + 3,49 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => X = 155 / 4,49 => X = 34,52

By assuming that it works with PR= 286 => X = { 5 + 3 * (50 + 0) } / { ( 1 + 2,86 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => X = 155 / 3,86 => X = 40,16

 

The game says that Hard Hit regenerates in 34,5 when we are a knight, and in 40,2 when we are transformed.

 

So we know that when we turn into a vampire, regeneration times are based on the new value of PR., so if we refer this to the first example, the basic time is 2,95 seconds. In my opinion it's more 3 seconds than 2,95 because sacred stats are sometimes stunted, sometimes rounded and this may alter results.

 

Example 03:

 

Vampiress level 25.

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 61 (0,61)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move and 0 Points into Vampirism.

 

The CA regenerates in 1,9 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 61 => 1,9 = { X } / { ( 1 + 0,61 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 1,9 = X / 1,61 => X = 3,06 (Basic Value)

 

And one more! :D

 

Example 04:

 

Vampiress level 150.

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 2,86 (2,86)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move and 0 Points into Vampirism.

 

The CA regenerates in 0,8 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 286 => 1,0 = { X } / { ( 1 + 2,86 } * ( 1 + 0 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 0,8 = X / 3,86 => X = 3,09 (Basic Value)

 

So now we established that basic time regeneration is 3 seconds, not 1.2! :D

 

But.. ..it's not finished.

Let's try to get some regeneration bonus from Vampirism.

 

 

Example 05:

 

Vampiress level 50.

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 106 (1,06)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move.

Vampirism level 50, bonus = 297%

 

The CA regenerates in 0,5 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 106 => 0,5 = { X } / { ( 1 + 1,06 } * ( 1 + 2,97 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 0,5 = X / 8,18 => X = 4,09 (Basic Value ?!?)

 

What? Basic Value Changed! an entire second ò_O"

Try once again!

 

Example 06:

 

Vampiress level 100.

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 196 (1,96)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move.

Vampirism level 25, bonus = 198%

 

The CA regenerates in 0,3 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 196 => 0,3 = { X } / { ( 1 + 1,96 } * ( 1 + 1,98 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 0,3 = X / 8,82 => X = 2,65 (Basic Value ?!?)

 

This time it's below the standard value.. ..last test!

 

Example 06:

 

Vampiress level 25.

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 61 (0,61)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move.

Vampirism level 50, bonus = 297%

 

The CA regenerates in 0,6 seconds.

By assuming that it works with PR= 61=> 0,6 = { X } / { ( 1 + 0,61 } * ( 1 + 2,97 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => 0,6 = X / 6,39 => X = 3,84 (Basic Value ?!?)

 

Since we introduced Vampirism.. ..all values of this CA got to behave "crazy". Why?

 

It's only a behavement related to "turn to knight" or also other CAs behave similar?

 

Test 07:

 

Vampiress level 150. Ca => Hard hit level 50

Phisical Regeneration before turning into a Vampire: 349 (3,49)

Phisical Regeneration after turning into a Vampire: 2,86 (2,86)

No Bonus Regeneration Special Move.

Vampirism level 50, bonus = 297 %

Concentration level 50, bonus = 297 %

 

Games says that regeneration times are:

Knight = 8.7

Vampire = 10.1

 

Knight with PR= 349 => X = { 5 + 3 * (50 + 0) } / { ( 1 + 3,49 } * ( 1 + 2,97 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => X = 155 / 17,83 => X = 8,7 Right!

Vampiress with PR= 286 => X = { 5 + 3 * (50 + 0) } / { ( 1 + 2,86 } * ( 1 + 2,97 ) * ( 1 + 0 ) } => X = 155 / 15,32 => X = 10,12 Right!

 

So.. "turn to knight" seems to be the only one CA that behave in a unpredictable way.. ..but game is ruled by formulaes, so there must be a sort of logic hidden here.

 

Anyone has suggestions?

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That's true, vamp's base value as well as vamp form has been messed around with UW, my value is only true for Plus. Another sharp eye there, though I'm afraid I don't get the time to really dig into the whole thing again. Sry...

 

Very sharp eye still. :D

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That's true, vamp's base value as well as vamp form has been messed around with UW, my value is only true for Plus. Another sharp eye there, though I'm afraid I don't get the time to really dig into the whole thing again. Sry...

 

Very sharp eye still. :)

 

mhm I didn't chek each value when I translated your guide, I executed random tests, and no one of them was wrong. This means that I'll do deeply my tests for the other CAs. :D

 

-_-'' Just the thought.. ..make me feel tired! :D

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most of the formula stayed the same, and most skills are unrelated to base stat. So, overall all of my guides should be applicable, if not at least on the ballpark. Formula say GM is one of the only exception, its off for some reason I couldn't find (there are no indication that GM has changed, although it most certainly had).

 

So don't worry too much, turn to knight is another exception. you can't have it 100% alway. :D

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Hi guys, after about a year, I finally returned to Sacred, but before I started playing I did some lurking around DarkMatters. So it happened that I came across this thread where I read the formula for spell regeneration. Playing Sacred Gold with the latest patch 2.28, I noticed that the posted formula for spell regeneration does not produce correct results.

 

The original formula that I thing was used sometime before the latest patch is:

 

__________________________________________________

Spell Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Spell runes read + Spell runes socketed / 2) } *

[{ 1 / (1 + MR) } * {1 / (1 + M + SR) } + GM ] * {1 / (1 + MS) }

__________________________________________________

 

The formula that I found to work, at least for Ice Shards(IS) because I did not test it for any other spells, is:

 

__________________________________________________

Spell Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Spell runes read + Spell runes socketed / 2) } *

[{ 1 / (1 + MR) } * {1 / (1 + M + SR + GM )} * {1 / (1 + MS) }]

__________________________________________________

 

Test setup:

 

1. I tested the formula on my level 43 BM:

  • Meditation 5
    Water Magic 19
    Mental Regeneration 198
    that means:
    • M = 54% = 0.54
      MS = 55% = 0.55
      MR = 198% = 1.98

2. I shall also be using these values for Ghost Meadow(GM):

  • GM level 1 => GM = 100% = 1
    GM level 21 => GM = 200% = 2
    GM level 41 => GM = 300% = 3
    when we don't use Ghost Meadow GM = 0

3. Also a pair of greaves to add Spell regeneration(SR)

  • SR = 50% = 0.5
    when the greaves are not equipped SR = 0

 

Let the testing commence:

 

Using Ice Shards(IS) lvl1 without the greaves equipped and also without Ghost Meadow(GM) cast, the game displays a regeneration of 1.1s.

By replacing in the second formula:

Basic Time with 5,

Level Time with 3,

Spell runes read with 1,

Spell runes socketed with 0,

MR with 1.98,

M with 0.54,

SR with 0,

GM with 0 and

MS with 0.55

we get

(5+3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 * {1 / (2.98 * 1.54 * 1.55)} = 8 / 7.11326 = 1.12 ≈ 1.1s

By inspecting the two results, marked with bold, we observe that the formula works.

 

Enough holding hands :Just_Cuz_21: :

 

IS level 1 + GM level 1, game displays 0.7s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 2.54 * 1.55) = 8 / 11.73226 = 0.68 ≈ 0.7s

 

IS level 1 + GM level 21, game displays 0.5s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 3.54 * 1.55) = 8 / 16.35126 = 0.48 ≈ 0.5s

 

IS level 1 + GM level 41, game displays 0.4s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 4.54 * 1.55) = 8 / 20.97026 = 0.38 ≈ 0.4s

 

IS level 1 + SR, game displays 0.8s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 2.04 * 1.55) = 8 / 9.42276 = 0.84 ≈ 0.8s

 

IS level 1 + SR + GM level 1, game displays 0.6s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 3.04 * 1.55) = 8 / 14.04176 = 0.56 ≈ 0.6s

 

IS level 1 + SR + GM level 21, game displays 0.4s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 4.04 * 1.55) = 8 / 18.66076 = 0.42 ≈ 0.4s

 

IS level 1 + SR + GM level 41, game displays 0.3s.

(5 + 3)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 8 / (2.98 * 5.04 * 1.55) = 8 / 23.27976 = 0.34 ≈ 0.3s

 

IS level 2, game displays 1.5s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 1.54 * 1.55) = 11 / 7.11326 = 1.54 ≈ 1.5s

 

IS level 2 + GM level 1, game displays 0.9s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 2.54 * 1.55) = 11 / 11.73226 = 0.93 ≈ 0.9s

 

IS level 2 + GM level 21, game displays 0.7s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 3.54 * 1.55) = 11 / 16.35126 = 0.67 ≈ 0.7s

 

IS level 2 + GM level 41, game displays 0.5s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 4.54 * 1.55) = 11 / 20.97026 = 0.52 ≈ 0.5s

 

IS level 2 + SR, game displays 1.2s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 2.04 * 1.55) = 11 / 9.42276 = 1.16 ≈ 1.2s

 

IS level 2 + SR + GM level 1, game displays 0.8s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 3.04 * 1.55) = 11 / 14.04176 = 0.78 ≈ 0.8s

 

IS level 2 + SR + GM level 21, game displays 0.6s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 4.04 * 1.55) = 11 / 18.66076 = 0.58 ≈ 0.6s

 

IS level 2 + SR + GM level 41, game displays 0.5s.

(5 + 6)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 11 / (2.98 * 5.04 * 1.55) = 11 / 23.27976 = 0.47 ≈ 0.5s

 

IS level 28, game displays 12.4s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 1.54 * 1.55) = 89 / 7.11326 = 12.51 ≈ 12.5s

 

IS level 28 + GM level 1, game displays 7.5s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 2.54 * 1.55) = 89 / 11.73226 = 7.58 ≈ 7.6s

 

IS level 28 + GM level 21, game displays 5.4s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 3.54 * 1.55) = 89 / 16.35126 = 5.44 ≈ 5.4s

 

IS level 28 + GM level 41, game displays 4.2s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 4.54 * 1.55) = 89 / 20.97026 = 4.24 ≈ 4.2s

 

IS level 28 + SR, game displays 9.4s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 2.04 * 1.55) = 89 / 9.42276 = 9.44 ≈ 9.4s

 

IS level 28 + SR + GM level 1, game displays 6.3s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 1)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 3.04 * 1.55) = 89 / 14.04176 = 6.33 ≈ 6.3s

 

IS level 28 + SR + GM level 21, game displays 4.7s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 2)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 4.04 * 1.55) = 89 / 18.66076 = 4.76 ≈ 4.8s

 

IS level 28 + SR + GM level 41, game displays 3.8s.

(5 + 84)*[{1 / (1 + 1.98)} * {1 / (1 + 0.54 + 0.5 + 3)} * {1 / (1 + 0.55)} = 89 / (2.98 * 5.04 * 1.55) = 89 / 23.27976 = 3.82 ≈ 3.8s

 

DONE.

 

I also tried using the formula for Phase Shift and Fireball and I noticed that the 'Basic Time' and 'Level Time' changed with the latest patch for Sacred. It was easy to observe that Fireball now has 5/3, just like Ice Shards, but I'm too lazy to deduce all the new values, maybe someday I'll get to it.

 

Conclusions:

 

1. The formula for spell regeneration used in the patch 2.28 is:

__________________________________________________

Spell Regeneration time =

{ Basic Time + Level Time *

(Spell runes read + Spell runes socketed / 2) } *

[{ 1 / (1 + MR) } * {1 / (1 + M + SR + GM )} * {1 / (1 + MS) }]

__________________________________________________

 

2. The 'Basic Time' and 'Level Time' for the BM's spells have changed, though Ice Shards still has 5/3.

 

3. As a BM you are better off spending only 1 point on Meditation, since now spell regeneration from items and GM bonus are added to the Meditation Bonus. Using a lvl181 GM you already have a bonus of 1000%, add to that at least 500% from items and the small bonus you get by investing additional points in Meditation is ridiculously small. So just spend 1 point in Meditation and increase it with +All Skills or +Meditation.

Note: I chose, the random value, 500% from items on the assumption that eventually the bonuses will get bigger, considering that at lvl43 my BM already has 300%.

 

4. I have no idea how the CA regeneration formula would look like with GM but it probably is GM + RSM.

 

5. Using this formula it appears that some results differ from the displayed results but it's probably due to rounding some values.

 

Corrections are always welcomed.

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oh mine, someone stills care.

 

I am off from Sacred for a long while, but my record did not seem to indicate that GM has changed. I could have missed it, true enough. I couldn't find it is a possibility.

 

Although its true that both formula suffer from rounding errors still, it would be fair to say that the "true" secret is yet to be discovered. Btw the display ingame is rounded too and off a bit for long duration CA, so really if its close enough I didn't bother to rewrite the whole thing.

 

Glad that someone is still out there. :Just_Cuz_21: and you seem to have it closer that much I surrender.

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HOW did you find it Frost? I swear I have the only physical copy nowadays. :scratch:

 

I think I used by the wayback machine (a website archive that lets you travel back in time to old posts on the web)... but I did save in email the text at one point or other too.

 

https://archive.org/web/

Edited by FrostElfGuard

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