Amazon for newbies

[Androdion 880]

I've been playing with my Captain America Barbarian with Magic Find mastered and I've been finding all sorts of goodies. One of those is the Remnants of Glaurung mini-set which I'm on the verge of completing, I'm only missing one Eye (amulet). So this, along with having some stashed blowpipes, led me to consider playing an Amazon in the future. So I'm starting to plan ahead and I'm checking the Wiki when I realize just how much magic oriented this class seems to be. Whereas with a Barbarian there's a 2/1 ratio on weapon-based trees of CAs on the Amazon it's the other way around, so I was trying to get my head around on how the Ranger class has so little emphasis on being a ranger. A thousand apologies if the Amazon isn't intended as a pure Ranger template, and I know a lot of work has been made into integrating melee with the same CAs for ranged attacks. Still, there are exactly three weapon-based CAs in this class (Strafe/Impale, Multiple Shot/Fend and Elemental Arrow). Why so little?

Anyway, can anyone please shed some light and give some practical examples on how to run this class while being more focused on weapons than on being a caster? And mind you that I'm not a Diablo 2 savant, so if I'm somehow misunderstanding the origins of this class then I'm all ears.

[Flix 5,116]

It's simple: The D2 Amazon had multiple weapon skills, based on what type of weapon was used.  So she had an entire tree that was ONLY for Bows.  She had another huge tree that was ONLY for spears and javelins.

There's no way for me to emulate that.  You can't split up weapon-based combat arts in Sacred 2 by weapon type.  The CA's automatically adapt to any and all weapon types.  And there's really only so many weapon CA's in Sacred 2 that the Dryad has animations for. 

Also, a lot of her weapon skills were based on the "wow" factor of adding poison or elemental damage to what were otherwise basic hard hits.  That's utterly pointless in Sacred 2 because you can already customize any weapon attack to have any damage you want.

She also had many skills that were just slightly better versions.  Fire Arrow, Explosive Arrow, Burning Arrow.  Why would I make three different CA's instead of the (logical for Sacred 2) method of making them modifications.

So, you have:

1) Ranged and melee combat arts combined because there could be no distinction between them.

2) Several skills became modifications instead.

[Flix 5,116]

I you want to know the actual thought that went into the class, I basically dumped my mind out onto the page in the development thread: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/22675-diablo-2-fallen-classes-the-amazon/

[Androdion 880]

So I guess that what you're saying is that the Huntress tree is like "two trees combined"? And that the rest is there to fill in the gaps?

Yeah, now that I look at it from that angle I understand the limitations that you must've had given that the Dryad was originally similar. It's funny because I've never played neither a Dryad nor a Temple Guardian in the original game (go figure!), but now that I'm looking at its CAs... I get it, even the Dryad was the same. In fact the Dryad only had two weapon-based CAs. Well, I guess I can't complain then!

Any pointers on playing a blowpipe Amazon? Heavy debuffs with the magic trees and multi-hit/hard-hit with ranged weapons, or something like that?

[Androdion 880]

17 minutes ago, Flix said:

I you want to know the actual thought that went into the class, I basically dumped my mind out onto the page in the development thread: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/22675-diablo-2-fallen-classes-the-amazon/

This was an interesting read, and much of your response is there in detail. Thanks for that. A few questions then:

• Quote

  This will tremendously boost the chance to pierce for any ranged attacks that are capable of piercing (magic staff projectiles and all ranged weapons except blowguns)

  - So magic staff projectiles can pierce and blowguns can't?

• Quote

  This is one of only a few combat arts in D2F capable of Leech Life %, available as a gold mod.

  - I've read in the Wiki that it can go as far as 20,5%? That's like five ticks on any boss! How did you manage to balance it?

[chattius 2,524]

The Amazon in D2F is a bit weak in defense. Playing ranged you can use sniper tactics versus mages. But playing melee - mages are a terror. All our Amazon melee tries used ´Philios' and Redemption godpower to have at least a bit of a chance.

[Androdion 880]

Doesn't the Salvation God Power help in that respect?  It's basically a shield from everything, which with Divine Devotion as a primary mastery should be interesting to use. It gives 40%+1% per level worth of damage mitigation besides the reflect chance, so I'm guessing that if I can run this right with proper relics then she can be mostly immune on lower levels like your Preacher. On higher levels there should be some fine tuning required, but she also has Spell Resist Lore and Toughness so I'm guessing it's feasible depending on your skill choice.

My main doubt here is which tactics to use since the two magic trees will demand an investment in Lore skills and/or Ancient Magic to be further effective. So I'm guessing there has to be a lot of compromise done in the skill choice.

[chattius 2,524]

If I take it right, godpowers can be dispelled. Salvation will reflect most spells cast on the amazon and at level60+ damage mitigation is 100%,  but it won't prevent an enemy from casting a dispel on it. Redemption at high levels has a longer range and may prevent the enemy from casting a dispel.

An amazon may not fear a big dragon, but she is a girl and hates spiders, insects and tiny dragons which may be trapped in her hair. Fighting in an area with dozens of spittings spider, dragonflies or small dragons with target seeking fire balls is not nice.Even at highest level the cooldown of the godpower is 70s and lasts only 30s.

Will have to try a Salvation build once, perhaps an Assassin.

 

 

[Androdion 880]

I'm thinking single aspect Huntress with Storm Focus for modifying Dodge as a second buff, Concentration with a single point, Divine Devotion for Salvation and Alchemy for full heals and better antidote pots. An early mastery of Spell Resist Lore should be important according to your experience.

I can see the major issue already, which seems to be the order in which I'll want to focus on each skill, let alone choose them. 

[Androdion 880]

I'd appreciate some input on this sketch from you guys, if you will. It's supposed to be played as a pure ranger with a small twist.

Skills:
 2 Huntress Talents Focus 75
 3 Ranged Weapons 75
 5 Armor Lore 5
 8 Concentration 1
12 Storm Combat Focus 9
18 Divine Devotion 75
25 Alchemy 1
35 Spell Resist Lore 75
50 Constitution 1
65 Tactics Lore 1

Attributes:
      0-49: +1 VIT
    50-74: +1 VIT, +1 DEX
  75-149: +1 VIT, +1 DEX
150-200: +3 DEX

CA Modifications:

HUNTRESS TALENT > Penetrate - Eagle Eye, Hunter, Marked Shot (1, 2, 3)
                                    Elemental Arrow - Cold Arrow, Ice Arrow, Freezing Arrow (4, 5, 6)
                                    Multiple Shot - Reload, Throwback, Rotate (7, 8, 9)
                                    Strafe - Bleeding, Breach, Volley (10, 11, 12)

STORM COMBAT > Dodge - Uproot, Galvanize, Payback (1, 2, 3)
                                Lightning Bolt - Daze, Disarm, Siphon (4, 5, 6)
                                Charged Strike - Weaken, Restore, Fumble (7, 8, 9)

So, basically this sketch is about hitting fast, faster, fastest, while Penetrate's Eagle Eye mod covers the gap for criticals due to Tactics Lore being absent up till the tenth skill choice. Divine Devotion mastery for "spamming" Salvation, Spell Resist Lore mastery for resisting mages and spell-based attacks, and an emphasis on hitting while debuffing (Elemental Arrow as first attack CA modified). Lightning Bolt mainly for Siphon and not as much for damage per se, Charged Strike at later levels for its debuff value (and since I already have the Focus skill, why not I guess?!). Attributes into staying alive/hitting harder, gives a good synergy with Dodge's bonuses for defense, Alchemy for extra defense (full heals and better antidote pots). I'm a total noob with Alchemy but I guess this is as good of a time to try it as any other.

The main idea is to completely reverse my playing style with this build. I tend to go all Rambo in this game, building toons that can deal with the punishment of rounding up mobs and killing them in groups. Now the main idea is to avoid general confrontations, hence the focus on Elemental Arrow being a slowdown/debuff vessel. Lightning Bolt's Siphon mod can turn the tides at mid level with bosses, if I'm able to balance it between spam level and a decent percentage of the %%LL bonus. Main issue keeps being smaller crowded spaces and my idea to counter that is Salvation, this assuming I can hit (and kill) fast enough before it wanes away. I'm guessing that the Arena in particular will be a terrible place for this build, but out in the open probably not as much. I'll take those Spitting Spiders and Dracolins with a healthy dose of Spell Resist Lore mastery.

This is still a preliminary sketch though, haven't even created the toon. I'm going through what is probably the busiest week of the year at work other than Christmas, so I'm not playing much these days. Still, I'm enjoying keeping in touch with the game by planning ahead.

Now I want to hear some feedback please. Fire away! 

[Flix 5,116]

I think Amazon Magic aspect would help a ranger more than Storm Combat.  It's got Inner Sight and Slow Missiles.  And, from experience, I can say once you go down the Storm Combat road, it's hard to want to do anything else but zap things constantly.

Re; Lightning Bolt w/Siphon mod, it's not balanced, not at all.  I've been meaning to change to flat Life Leeched per Hit.  May if I can merge w/ Addendum I can keep the LL%.

[Androdion 880]

7 hours ago, Flix said:

I think Amazon Magic aspect would help a ranger more than Storm Combat.  It's got Inner Sight and Slow Missiles.  And, from experience, I can say once you go down the Storm Combat road, it's hard to want to do anything else but zap things constantly.

I get what you mean. I wanted to avoid the triple buff toon because of the investment in the weapon lore and general skills, but going with just two buffs choosing between Dodge and Inner Sight is kind of a hard thing to do. Inner Missiles seems definitely more in line with the general idea of debuffing opponents though.

7 hours ago, Flix said:

Re; Lightning Bolt w/Siphon mod, it's not balanced, not at all.  I've been meaning to change to flat Life Leeched per Hit.  May if I can merge w/ Addendum I can keep the LL%.

I see. So it's probably a dead end road for me I guess.