Blowpipes vs Bows dmg

[Flix 5,116]

3 hours ago, Lindor said:

Despite me removing the bonus dmg off the bow. I don't know what is happening here. I don't have any dmg conversion on my char.

I don't know how many different ways I can suggest to check material.txt.    Certain materials will have different base damage types.  It's not bonus damage if the material applies a physical/ice mix, like W_crystal  does, for example. Likewise it's not bonus damage if the allotment_pmfpi line is used, it's just re-proportioning the physical damage part of the base damage.

3 hours ago, Lindor said:

And another observation is that the bonus ice dmg

Do you mean flat or %?  Flat should be shown on the item's base damage tooltip and should therefore be considered part of the base damage for most purposes.

[Lindor 438]

Ooooh. So allotment_pmfpi only converts the physical damage portion of the material and not all. Then I misinterpreted your explanation in the thread for my blueprint.txt questions. I thought if the blueprint.txt pmfpi numbers don't add to 1000 but to x, then x‰ would have allotment of blueprint.txt and (1000-x)‰ would have allotment of material.txt the whole time.

33 minutes ago, Flix said:

Do you mean flat or %?  Flat should be shown on the item's base damage tooltip and should therefore be considered part of the base damage for most purposes.

Flat as this is the test I did. With base dmg I really only meant dmg by material assigned to the itemtype, everything else is bonus dmg for me, being it flat, % or through attributes.

[Flix 5,116]

13 hours ago, idbeholdME said:

So the main takeaway is, that the higher the item level, the less powerful the attribute scaling is?

I assume this holds true also for the vanilla/PFP?

  Yes. I would bet this is the coded solution introduced by the devs in the I&B expansion in response to the out of control attribute damage scaling that Fallen Angel offered.  I've seen this nerf mentioned on the WIki and kind of assumed it was just done through balance.txt with the "attrWdam_fact" line.  However I just checked the FA scripts and the lines in the script match.  So this hardcoded, inverse relationship must be how they accomplished the nerf.

59 minutes ago, Lindor said:

Flat as this is the test I did. With base dmg I really only meant dmg by material assigned to the itemtype, everything else is bonus dmg for me, being it flat, % or through attributes.

Understood. So the result was that this damage is treated as base damage in terms of the attribute scaling factor. Makes sense to me. This is what I would have expected.

[idbeholdME 394]

3 hours ago, Flix said:

  Yes. I would bet this is the coded solution introduced by the devs in the I&B expansion in response to the out of control attribute damage scaling that Fallen Angel offered.  I've seen this nerf mentioned on the WIki and kind of assumed it was just done through balance.txt with the "attrWdam_fact" line.  However I just checked the FA scripts and the lines in the script match.  So this hardcoded, inverse relationship must be how they accomplished the nerf.

Interesting.

So it seems that the damage scaling itself was not really touched but that the item level has somehow been introduced into the equation. Could it be something similar to how the power of Intelligence drops off as CA levels go up? There is a table on the wiki page for it:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Intelligence

1000 Intelligence at CA level 1 boosts the CA damage by 666%, but only 20% at CA level 100.

[Flix 5,116]

56 minutes ago, idbeholdME said:

Interesting.

So it seems that the damage scaling itself was not really touched but that the item level has somehow been introduced into the equation. Could it be something similar to how the power of Intelligence drops off as CA levels go up? There is a table on the wiki page for it:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Intelligence

1000 Intelligence at CA level 1 boosts the CA damage by 666%, but only 20% at CA level 100.

Yes I believe so.  The table wouldn't be identical for weapons (attribute effect on weapons/spells is controlled by two different lines in balance.txt) but it would be similar.  Weapons would suffer more of a penalty by the looks of it.

  attrSdam_fact = 334,
  attrWdam_fact = 250,

[Lindor 438]

Uhmm...

[Flix 5,116]

Does the difference persist when you equip the bow in the inventory and compare? 

Maybe you spotted some threshold where the Dex bonus from lower level items outclasses the scaling base damage itself.  After all I did increase the attribute scaling effect in EE's balance.txt. 

[Lindor 438]

equipping level 202 bow:

equipping level 206 bow:

equipping/unequipping bows does not influence the stats shown on the bows above.

[Flix 5,116]

Yeah looks like the Dex bonus is just that much higher on the lower level bow, so it boosts the damage up more.

[Lindor 438]

But how can the Dex bonus influence the dmg shown at the weapon directly? That is not a thing in Sacred 2 I thought.

[Lindor 438]

...

[idbeholdME 394]

2 hours ago, Lindor said:

...

The rounding of numbers works very weirdly in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if the discrepancy was caused by that.