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OMG - 6 months since I posted here - sorry Gogo. however the site is looking better than for a long time - super work Gogo and team. Think I had better get working and get more active. Must have said that before ..... however, New Year resolutions are the order of the day

Must admit I had been a bit scared off by the sheer superiority of knowledge among some of the folks now active in the old kitchen forum. Chattius is way above my level, and as for people who are professionals in food/cooking they make me want to runaway and hide rather than air my scrappy reminiscences.

However I was given a decent camera - so no excuse now ... except that the battery is flat and I am always in too much of a hurry, to stuff my face before the food gets cold, to remember to take pics.

Promise to do better? Who would believe it.

Meanwhile has anyone any suggestions for a celebratory meal for DM's return? Yeah, yeah, drinks all round, but what about food?

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My cooking knowledge is mainly local traditional, and icecream for kids :) And a bad memory and no cooking book, so a meal is never the same again ;)

 

Sunday I did Brussel Sprouts - mother had them still in garden, and they needed frost to become tasty

Roasted with bacon, greenback pieces and Maronen and some melted selfmade sourcream cheese put as a layer . Roasted eatable chestnuts (Roasted Maronen) are a delicatess at german x-mas markets and we had several pounds as leftovers. Maronen can be used as a potato replacement. So I wonder if this menu has chiefcook quality or if it is just a creative way to use seasonal stuff and leftovers.

I think a chiefcook would have added some colourish style elements, carrot and nut pieces for example, add some parmesan cheese.... to create something like this:

393912-big-rosenkohl-maronen-auflauf.jpg

 

But I had to feed a bunch of hungry lions and not gourmets :P

 

Maronen were brought to german by roman legions who used them like nowaday potato:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castanea_sativa

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lol you guys are awesome. What a chuckle over the reads here this morning, over coffee while fantasizing over my *cough* delicious mcd's breakfast coming my way as soon as I can gather up the wherewithal and kajoonies to run out in this subzero weather! :lol:

Gratz on the camera Bond, and now that you're back, there's no escaping the clutches of FDM :devil:

And...I just bought some Brussel Sprouts! but, Chattius, why do you say you need frost to make them taste better?

 

:)

 

gogo

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"The key to great brussel sprouts is frost. When exposed to frost brussel sprouts react in a way happens to be beneficial to us. They release a natural “anti-freeze” which you may know of by its common name; sugar."

from http://www.neci.edu/blog/uncategorized/first-frost-time-to-buy-brussel-sprouts

 

Very same reason why you use sugar water if you put cut flowers in a vase on a graveyard at winter. And a lot of fruits need frost too in our climate: sloes, quinces,... Without frost they are too sour.

 

If you buy brussel sprouts: a good vendor cools them while fresh harvested to have at least a little sugaring effect.

 

Did I mention that we test a red brussel sprouts variant starting 2 years ago, adds some colour to the veg-garden and to the meal.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

Nothing to do with red sprouts!

Subject: "spelt" which I think is the english name for a cereal also called épeautre (France), "espelta" (Portuguese?), "farro" (Italian) and sorry but don't know what it is in German!

A cereal in general use till the start of the 20th century, certainly in Germany, Switzerland, France, for bread making among other things. It is available now in French supermarkets, and my wife now uses it sometimes, solo or mixed with whiteflour, for bread and pastries.

I wondered if any of you, especially Chattius, has any experience of this cereal.

Please don't bother to quote from Wiki, it is personal experience I am looking for, and any comments about its use, good or bad.

Edited by Bondbug
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Spelt is called Dinkel in german. We eat quite often as Veggieburgers (red lentils and green corn, Das Auge isst mit = First , you eat with your eyes). Grünkorn is half ripe harvested spelt which is then dried. You can also do nice soups from Grünkorn.

Grünkern and special milled Dinkel (Dinkelreis) can be a replacement for rice in some recipes. Doing cakes from spe,t flour normally needs mixing with other corns.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks Chattius. I will pass that on to wife. I think she only uses it at present, with other flour, for some of her bread and pastry, so I thought you might have experience from your bakehouse. All the info we could find seemed to put it in the past and mainly for baking, so we were interested to find it in our local supermarkets.

Your additional info is much appreciated :)

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From my father's father side my family had a wood working tradition and bread baking was done in the village baking house. From my wife's mother side they did pottery and they had a tradition of using watered clay pots for bread baking. - Water a clay pot for a day - Do a yeast: dissolve a yeast cube (here yeast is sold cooled in small cubes, 1 cubic inch must be close) in 750ml water mix 600g rough spelt flour 200g very rough buckwheat flour 3 tea spoons of salt 1 tea spoon coriander add the watered yeast and 4 eating spoons of balsamico vinegar mix the whole mix preheat the oven to 220 Celcius smear the lower half of the watered clay pot with olive oil, put the mix in, and place it in a warm (not hot) bath till the yeath has doubled put the clay pot into the lower part of the oven for around an hour at 220C WARNING: my parents in law use selfmade clay pots which can stand the full heat of a pre-heated oven. For industrial made clay pots you may have to put the clay pot into a cold oven. Read the manual. Exspect a doubled baking time. For doing spelt-bread in a baking house you either have to mix spelt with a flour which contains more glue or you need a baking form to prevent it from falling apart. Depending on how you see it,good or bad, our area had a century long tradition of Hauberg's and didn't do mass production of corn. The forest on the hills was owned by the people, splitted in small squares. The community discussed how the forest was used each year. So it was like a 7 or 9 year cycle: use the bark of 7 year trees for tanning the barkless wood was used to make charcoal for the smiths in the iron rich area the roots of the trees remained, and created young trees quickly while the young trees grew : buckwheat, spelt , and other crop was planted between them in a rotating system forest pigs, forest caddle were used to keep unwanted bushes away Spelt between 6 year old trees. Hauberg-02-k_reference.jpg Trees chopped in winter and corn(in europe corn is not mais) sawed in spring, back is two year old wood. Kornernte-im-Hauberg_1920erJahre1.jpg Good that the traditions are kept alive by history clubs, bad that this system didn't allow full use of machines and many young people left the area in search for good jobs. No theatre, internet, cinema, ....nearby. At the great starvations in the 19th century our area was the least affected. No mass production of potatoe, no fungi in the wheat or rye. Small squares with different crop prevented widespread plant diseases. The area was fully autark with iron, wood/charcoal, caddle, corn, clay and could feed 7 times the people per square/kilometre than the full agriculture areas in prussian in the 19th century. Only Liebig with his artificial fertilizer did a change.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just back from first leg of summer break in Ariège. Thanks for this Chattius. Need to study it when I get a free moment. Viv will be pleased too.

 

For me it brings back school breaks spent working on farms for pocket money, especially "stooking" the sheaves of corn. Barley was the worst in days when we wore home-knitted shirts and sweaters that attracted the spikes off the barley. But spelt was one I never knew about till recently.

 

And pitchforking the hay up on to the waggons with a somewhat uncontrolled pitchfork action. Days to remember with pleasure.

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I remember bringing in the hay at my grandparents. As a young boy I had to follow the waggon and rake all the lost hay. A little older (and stronger) I had to either drive the tractor or lead the horse and ox couple (at hillsides where a tractor would ruin the soil). Our smallest tractors were a Lamborghini and a Porsche. It is somehow fun to tell people that I learned driving when being 6 on a Porsche ;)

Being 12 I lost the Porsche somehow to my younger brother and I was on the waggon placing the hay for stability. Narrow roads through the forest demanded a high tower of hay rather than a broad loaded waggon as used in the flatlands. With 15 and 1,92metres I had to learn this pitchfork rotating trick to load to highest place of the waggon. The pitchfork was around 2,5metres and had two pointed ends. Hay was not pressed and somehow lighter, but stray was pressed and each packet at 40 pounds. You had to pierce the stray near its center of gravity with the pointed ends up and reach it to the person top of waggon with the pointed ends down to release it. All with a twisted movement which prevented the 40pound package to fall.

---

Back to the spelt: Last week in german TV was a documentation about cooking 300 years ago in our state: befor potato, rice, tomato, ... and all that was available. Salt and pepper was very expensive and not used by the normal people. It was strange to see how many old recipes were using spelt. The most common recipes were:

Dinkelsuppe (spelt soup): watering spelt for a day and then made into a thick soup by adding onions, carrots and leek.

Dinkelfladen (flat cake from spelt): same weight of a brew from vegetables as the flour from spelt, add caraway and monk's pepper and do thin pan cakes (Fladen is german for flat cake, the words are related).

...

Even Hildegard von Bingen wrote 800 years ago that spelt would be the most healthy of all grain.

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I always wished that I had been born on a farm. Plenty of hard and often very unpleasant work, but a fulfilling existence. We lived in a market town, and the road to school passed the sheep market pens. Main street was often blocked by sheep. But my father was a teacher. However he was captain of the local rugby club where most of the "pack" were farmers. Their best friends had a big milk and sheep farm not too far away, and we visited a lot. The land was on a slope, so loading waggons was dictated by that. I remember the pitchfork technique, but lacked enough practice to be too reliable with my control of the prongs. Ubtil my father got killed we shared much of their way of life. I particularly enjoyed going to the "point-to-point races", largely farmers and country "gentry" riding their own horses, even working horses that they trained over hedges on their farms. Wonderful atmosphere, probably all gone now. Too young to drink, and too "skint" to bet or buy anything, I enjoyed just watching and soaking in the "ambiance".

During the war we were lucky having these contacts. Occasionally we got bacon and potted meats and hams, and butter and eggs, from these rugby team friends, and father often went out shooting rabbits (mainly). We had a fairly "cushy" war being in the country and 20miles from the nearest bomb targets (shipyards and weapons)

They were a big family with three farms in different villages. Being a kid I helped where I could, but spent much of my time getting to know the sheep dogs. It was all horses in those days. I was even lucky, later when I came out of the army, to work for a while on the last farm in that particular area, Herefordshire this time, that worked horses. It was a bad situation though and I did not stay long. The old farmer's widow managed the farm and used her son as a grossly underpaid manager. Too mean to work the farm properly they used to buy prize winning colts, and then neglect them and work them into the knackers yard. But I did have the pleasure of working with these animals for a while, out in the fields raking and harrowing, and jogging along in the cart cutting willow and hedging with it.

But I soon discovered that to be a farm manager you needed to be of farming stock, with experience that I would never gain. Pity, but I was great while it lasted - even my main work of clearing dung from the cow byres and spreading it on the fields ... clearing dung because it had not been done for a long time and the poor beasts sometimes sank in up to their shoulders !!! Difficult to believe. I also remember that at lambing time a large number died and all the trees in the orchard were hung with dead lambs. I also remember having to bury a dead and bloated sheep corpse so that the fact was not discovered. As I said - I did not stay very long, but, largely because of working with the horses, there was much that I loved.

So that I do somewhat envy you your life Chattius, and the fact that you seem to have been able to protect much of the way of life that went with it.

As for "spelt" it is odd that it should take finding it in a French supermarket to open up this interesting little corn package.

 

Big sigh!

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In german towns spelt was for a long time only available in Reformhäuser (health food stores). It was very expensive because of the tiny amount harvested. it was priced and bought like a medical product. The renaissance of Hildegard von Bingen's health recipes made it popular and more farmers grew it. It never vanished totally at some places here. Our local topology prevents using big harvest machines which can cut corn more than 3 metres I width. So farmers here always did niche products. Perhaps france is where germany was 15 years ago, spelt only vailable direct at a farmer or at a special health food shop.

Nearby supermarket has these three sorts of spelt:

https://www.seeberger.de/product_info.php/language/fr/info/p85_Dinkel.html

https://www.seeberger.de/product_info.php/language/fr/info/p73_Gruenkern-ganz.html

https://www.seeberger.de/product_info.php/language/fr/info/p74_Gruenkernschrot.html

 

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Thanks again Chattius. Good to let me have links to text in French!

Wife just back from Tours so will have to leave it at that, but will look up your Hildegard von Bingen later.

:)

 

I just did. Wow. I had forgotten even the name. Looks like a lot of reading to be done.

Edited by Bondbug
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I think you can switch between german/english/french by clicking on the flags in right upper edge at the spelt pages.

St. Hildegard's highest rated foods are spelt, chestnuts, fennel and chickpeas (garbanzo beans). "Spelt creates healthy body, good blood and a happy outlook on life," she writes. Meat should be from animals which eat grass and hay and don't have too many offspring. Butter and cream from the cow are good, but milk and cheese are better from the goat. Sunflower seed and pumpkin seed oils are good; olive oil is reserved for medicinal purposes.

The above quote is from this following page which explains how much influence Hildegard still had on german food. Remember she wrote all that 800 years ago and eatable chestnuts were as whide spread as potato noadays. We have two trees, main use is roasting them around christmas. Or pheasant roasted in a fatnat served with apple wedges sweated in butter and boiled chestnuts with a sugar crust.

http://germanfood.about.com/od/introtogermanfood/a/Hildegard_von_Bingen.htm

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  • 2 years later...

It gets more and more difficult to find something interesting for Xmas dinner these days. The birds that were special treats are as common as muck, though the old traditional free range "capon" is still worth while. Ostrich, hippopotamus or whatever the strange recent fashions offer are above our price range, even if we fancied them.

 

My wife, with always an eagle eye for "special offers" came home from supermarket with a "cuisse" (upper leg, thigh) of wild boar for the Xmas dinner. As this involves also feeding family who will be over from Canada, she is anxious to find a good recipe for roast boar and she has been hunting on Web.

 

But it struck me that this is perhaps something where Hesse might have something good. So, what can Chattius offer from his vast family experience that will be much much more interesting than the Web bits :)

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Marinading:

With boar I often decide how I will do it when seeing it. Depending on age and gender of the boar and the season. If it has a very strong taste I marinade it for 3-4 days (!) in a mix of buttermilk and herbs to soften it and lower the taste about wild game a bit. At a normal taste one day marinading with a fruit- or red wine and herbs is enough.

 

Roasting:

Short from all sides with Butterschmalz (fat from butter which can stand high heat)

 

Slow boiling:

I normally use a watered clay pot for the already roasted boar and use some of the marinade. My wife grew up in a family of potters from her mothers side and the clay pot was brought in from her.

 

Spicing the sauce:

When half done it is time to spice and darken the sauce with Sossenlebkuchen. It is a sort of gingerbread specially baken to make sauces and spice wild game. Often we have chocolade in it for boar and deer.

 

Serving:

Fermented red cabbage stripes and stamped potato normally added at the plate to the boar and sauce.

 

 

So I think the main difference to what is done in france or england is using special gingerbread and a clay pot. Sossenlebkuchen is also used to fill roast-apples. So we bake some plates of this special gingerbread in november. In germany you can buy Sossenlebkuchen or just Sossenkuchen at shops.

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Many thanks Chattius. Certain things we cannot get here. I think we have discussed the clay pot problem before.

However the Sossenlebkuchen sounds interesting and possible. Do you have a recipe or should we look it up on Web?

 

Er ... in English please if possible!! Plenty on Sossenlebkuchen but all in German. LOL

Edited by Bondbug
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Wonderful, and we have all the ingredients. I will print it out, show it to my wife in the morning, and we should be able to try it at the weekend. A treat for the New Year.

The boar we already had roast. Probably farmed and lacked a bit in taste, but there will still be some about for the season.

 

Game is not easy here. Plenty of wild boar, and plenty of hunters, but I do not hunt and I have no source fo supply at present. Gone are the days when we got rabbit for the price of the cartridge, and wild duck for a few shillings from the local village lads. When I was a kid and my father was captain of the local rugby team, many of his friends were farmers and he went out with them, but those days are, for me at least, lon,g gone.

 

I like the look of this recipe and will surely try it as soon as possible. Thanks.

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  • 3 years later...

Well well, I notice that Chattius can't even note his birthday without making an interesting story of it. One reason that I came to sit in here” earlier was to look through some of his pre-Wiki posts He hasn't changed. I always thought that a selection of his posts here should be gathered together as a separate collection.

However, to our muttons as they seem to say here. Dinner today was a sort of upgraded Sunday dinner. Sunday dinner being something we observe religiously even though there are only two of us to enjoy it these days. It is a heavily French-influenced format these days. Starter (hors d'oeuvre which is a meal in itself here), main course, cheese (to prolong the red wine), desert (usually more substantial than the French buy-in-from-the-supermarket thing and often with custard). Timotheus may remember “what's for pud ma?”.

We do not buy wines from the supermarket, but from vinyards we visit where we can taste and select, never expensive as our budget is a max. of 4 euros/litre. We have found a “viticulteur” in the Gers department with a very acceptable “cubi” red table wine for under 2 euros? Cubi = cubitainer, 10, 20, 30 litre containers to be filled at the vinyard.  Wines here usually have the “cépage” given, that being the name of the grape(s) used. We like our reds fairly substantial in colour and taste, and have found the wines of the south of France very much to our liking, rather than the perhaps more sophisticated wines elsewhere. There are still vinyards which grow older, less well-known grapes, like Tannat, Ginseng, Abu Riou, and many others, less commercially viable in large quantities, but with real taste.

So to what was in effect a fairly simple and inexpensive meal.

Sauvignon white and cheese straws for apperitif;

avocado prawns for starter;

quail (poor little things) for main course, with veg and a sauce and red wine;

cheese and biscuits (not bread);

and pud with cream and a sweet white wine.

   The veg was fennel and potatoes, par boiled then transferred to the oven with cheese on top.

   The pud was a light sandwich base with rasps on top and whipped cream from the top of the milk which we fetch twice a week from a farm in a 3 ltr churn.

I don't know how much of this you understand. The language is English English and a bit out of date.

 

What I wanted to ask Chattius about is the cooking and presentation of quail.

Our choice was something of a trip down memory lane. In our courting days, when I was working and much better off, we used to stop, on our way from Glasgow to Hartlepool, at a little pub/restaurant called The Milecastle, about half way along the Roman Wall (Hadrian's). There he always had draught cider and quail, real countryside quail not the farmed stuff, and he had an incredibly powerful dark brown sauce which also appeared with his cheeseboard !! It was always a feature of this drive, even later when our wee daughter was able to brag that she ate 2 whole chicken there (never seen such tiny chicken, perhaps they were camouflaged quail)

Anyway...Chattius, how would you deal with quail:)

And for old times sake we have the bread oven working tomorrow.......is your village effort still going strong?

Time for a walk, but I am not sure what the new corona restrictions allow.

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2 hours ago, Bondbug said:

Well well, I notice that Chattius can't even note his birthday without making an interesting story of it. One reason that I came to sit in here” earlier was to look through some of his pre-Wiki posts He hasn't changed. I always thought that a selection of his posts here should be gathered together as a separate collection.

However, to our muttons as they seem to say here. Dinner today was a sort of upgraded Sunday dinner. Sunday dinner being something we observe religiously even though there are only two of us to enjoy it these days. It is a heavily French-influenced format these days. Starter (hors d'oeuvre which is a meal in itself here), main course, cheese (to prolong the red wine), desert (usually more substantial than the French buy-in-from-the-supermarket thing and often with custard). Timotheus may remember “what's for pud ma?”.

We do not buy wines from the supermarket, but from vinyards we visit where we can taste and select, never expensive as our budget is a max. of 4 euros/litre. We have found a “viticulteur” in the Gers department with a very acceptable “cubi” red table wine for under 2 euros? Cubi = cubitainer, 10, 20, 30 litre containers to be filled at the vinyard.  Wines here usually have the “cépage” given, that being the name of the grape(s) used. We like our reds fairly substantial in colour and taste, and have found the wines of the south of France very much to our liking, rather than the perhaps more sophisticated wines elsewhere. There are still vinyards which grow older, less well-known grapes, like Tannat, Ginseng, Abu Riou, and many others, less commercially viable in large quantities, but with real taste.

So to what was in effect a fairly simple and inexpensive meal.

Sauvignon white and cheese straws for apperitif;

avocado prawns for starter;

quail (poor little things) for main course, with veg and a sauce and red wine;

cheese and biscuits (not bread);

and pud with cream and a sweet white wine.

   The veg was fennel and potatoes, par boiled then transferred to the oven with cheese on top.

   The pud was a light sandwich base with rasps on top and whipped cream from the top of the milk which we fetch twice a week from a farm in a 3 ltr churn.

I don't know how much of this you understand. The language is English English and a bit out of date.

 

What I wanted to ask Chattius about is the cooking and presentation of quail.

Our choice was something of a trip down memory lane. In our courting days, when I was working and much better off, we used to stop, on our way from Glasgow to Hartlepool, at a little pub/restaurant called The Milecastle, about half way along the Roman Wall (Hadrian's). There he always had draught cider and quail, real countryside quail not the farmed stuff, and he had an incredibly powerful dark brown sauce which also appeared with his cheeseboard !! It was always a feature of this drive, even later when our wee daughter was able to brag that she ate 2 whole chicken there (never seen such tiny chicken, perhaps they were camouflaged quail)

Anyway...Chattius, how would you deal with quail:)

And for old times sake we have the bread oven working tomorrow.......is your village effort still going strong?

Time for a walk, but I am not sure what the new corona restrictions allow.

Quail is simple to cook with... you can treat the flavours about the same as you would chicken, nothing strong that will overpower it. but because they are so small, do NOT over cook it. it will dry out and be almost flavourless... 

a very good dish that we used to make at La Residence was a quail terrine. It required some time, but I always loved it... get as much of the meat off the bones, and make a stock with the bones.

then cooked the meat with a bit of onions, the stock gets reduced a little bit, and a bit off gelatin gets added to just make it set at fridge temperature. in a bread pan lined with baking paper start layering, meat, some cooked vegetables(carrots, asparagus etc) some bread crumbs, more meat, more veg, more breadcrumbs, and finished off with more meat(which becomes the "foot" pour the stock with the dissolved gelatin in over and quickly put it in the oven for a few minutes... this helps the stock penetrate everywhere and lets it set. let it cool overnight next day you can slice it and eat it with crackers/toast/bread/whatever you feel like...

 

or a stuffed quail... you need a deboned whole quail for this though. stuff the quail with some cranberries, breadcrumbs and if possible the mashed giblets from the quail. then roll it in plastic wrap, making sure it is sealed watertight. cook it in water (sous vide style) until the quail is cooked all the way through. Unwrap and sear of in a smoking hot pan for some colour. Serve with a starch, vegetable and sauce of your choice. Recommendation would be celeriac puree/fondant/sweet potato puree/fondant/quinoa with herbs/even couscous with herbs and finely chopped vegetables. vegetable like asparagus, tenderstem broccoli, mange tout, sugar snap peas, brussel sprouts and a sauce with a bit of brandy would not be amiss....

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Quail, recipe most loved by the twins:

quails:

salt and pepper from in and outside, filled with a citron wedge, twig of rosemary, a bay leaf and a toe of garlic (only the paperlike outside removed), tie the opening close

roasted in a really hot pan till all skin is crispy

Hopefully half of the citron wedges, bay leaves, garlic and rosemary is left

 

We like them with Quarkkartoffel (we even like Quarkkartoffel as a standalone food)

Boil some potato (not too small ones) for around 15 minutes. Do a cut on the top, put them on a plate with some oil together with the roasted quails and into the oven at 200C for 15 minutes. The water fog leaving the potatos should prevent the quails from getting to dry, while they are still heated enough to stop salmonella (we try to keep the quails healthy, but you never know). Open oven and add the leftover citron, garlic, bay leaves, rosemary and a bit garden sage to the quails and potato. Heat for 5 more minutes. Some of the aroma will move into the potato and quails.

 

Take all from oven, quickly fill the cracked potato with Quark and serve them with the quails.

Its my turn to eat the roasted garlic, twins press the roasted citron wedges over the quail and quark, ...

 

I got use to Quarkkartoffel as a kid. After potato harvest a person with a BIG machine arrived. He boiled potato in a large amount as pig food pressed into barrels so it would last for a year. He tested if the potato were through by taking some out. By grandpa did a cut and checked. And since a famer never throws food away he smeared Quark on them. My first Quarkkartoffel experience. Now it is considred a health food, hundreds of recipes (at least in Germany). But no recipe can reach this taste about potato as was done with this macine.

Bildschirmfoto-2017-06-26-um-18.06.01-e1

Machine still exists in a museum in my birth town Wetzlar.

 

 

 

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