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Epox

Melee Inspired High Elf Build

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chattius    734

Hi, first post here in darkmatters. I am playing melee-elves since decembre 2008. First was a storm/polearm, then a storm/fire/polearm. The last melee-elf I played had no weapon skill at all, but was using alchemy to hit bosses. The attack speed of magic coup is spell speed given by arcane lore, so the level malus for high level weapns can be ignored too. So weapon lore would be just for attack value and unlocking weapon modifiers. Staves have no weapon modifiers. So I thought:

I need this weapon skill just to hit bosses. I need a 140-150% hit chance versus champions to hit bosses with around 100%. But is it really necessary to have these 150% all the time? Surely not. So I decided to optimize my equipment to hit the champions with 100% and I will use trollteeth with alchemy versus bosses.

 

Trolltooth : +1000% attack value at alchemy 300 and niob

 

So I did a bargaining melee-elf with perception which had no weapon skill:

arcane lore, armour, arcane focus, bargaining, concentration, inferno focus, alchemy, shield lore , constitution and perception

I was putting each point in vitality because I play hardcore.

 

In my opinion the most robust build for a melee elf would be:

 

02 arcane lore

03 armour

05 arcane focus

08 bargaining

12 concentration

18 sword lore

25 alchemy

35 inferno focus

50 shield lore

65 constitution

 

Weapon if possible: laser swords with fire because of their high natural fire damage. This build gave up perception for sword lore for the double hits and unlocking weapon modifiers. But the character is still able to use a ranged weapon with more than acceptable hit chance. Shurikens with +% life leech are a nice way to kill bosses.

 

Alchemy is way better than speed lore in hit chance versus bosses, in protection versus bosses, in heal potion usage, in adding 30% crit chance. And at level 120 my mentor potions last 3 minutes.

 

My current character is a 3 aspect dryad which has shield/armour, tactics, alchemy, concentration, nature lore/focus, vodoo lore/focus and ancient magic.

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merihim    0

Nice guide :cool:

 

Would it be possible to make a similar build, just with lightning?

 

I am new to the game, so I´m looking for most possible learning about this game and it´s builds :P

.. and besides, it would be nice to get just 1 build past level 22 :(

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Epox    2

u could go pure lightning yes but then again u would lake the defence from Crystal skin and wold not gain the damage from Crystal skins ice damage mod that works With Ice flash and as for the question in the pm I recived take all skills to level 75 except Concentration and for The Magic Coup u can take EIther mana steal mod or life leech mod its up to what u prefer but keep magic coup at level 1 and boost it through items :(

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merihim    0

Hey Epox!

 

Thanks for your answers :P

I guess you wont have much armor/defense as pure delphic caster. Kinda missed that one!

 

Gonna continue with your build and see how well a beginner like me can get with it :)

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Epox    2

added how many sp's u should use on each skill

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Furian67    12

How well is your HE doing on taking the damage? She have a strong chin? I have a Pyro He and have to really watch my health when I round up for a blood bath...or I should say BBQ. (Sweet Pyro Build to Kat). I think the only thing that's saving my butt is the shield I have.

Stalworth Safeguard level 50

Attack speed -3.2%

survival bonus increase rate +13.6%

opponents chance to wound all types -16.3%

defense value +21.1

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leok    0

Tried your build, seem to have difficulty with some bosses so needed some help from friends. The Magic Coup + Shadow step combo really helped though. Thanks for the guide.

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ka243    1

I realise this goes away somewhat from the "melee" aspect somewhat, but what about removing tactics and adding both combat discipline and bargaining? I think that tactics does not effect magic coup and no attack would benefit from it except the left-click attack of this build?

 

If using an ice sword and magic coup and crystal skin, will the damage be increased versus using magic coup with a regular weapon and without crystal skin (or is the mods on crystal skin+ice sword only for left-click damage)?

 

If not doing this, would it be better to get pyro focus instead of ice focus and mod the flame skin buff instead of crystal skin...

 

Here's the build I am thinking about:

Skills (not necessarily in this order):

delphic arcania lore

delphic arcania focus

arrant pyromancer focus or Ice focus

concentration

bargaining

constitution

armor lore

shield lore

combat discipline

sword lore or ranged lore

 

Reason for considering ranged lore: If you try to do a ca but its not quite recharged on xbox, you execute a regular attack. If you've got a close ranged weapon and you're not right on the enemy, it will miss whereas a ranged weapon will hit.

 

However, I read somewhere that the animation speed of magic coup with ranged lore is very slow and so this might not be a good idea.

 

Does anyone know if lore effects casting speed in a combo on xbox? I know that got fixed on pc (lore does effect casting speed in combos) but not sure about Xbox. If this is the case, I might drop combat discipline for tactics or ancient magic...

 

From the wiki: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5...bat_Discipline

 

"Improves regeneration of Combat Arts that are in a Combo and slightly increases the damage of all combat arts. Also allows up to three Combat Arts in a combo. Prior to game version 2.40.0, it should be noted that due to a bug Combat Arts in a combo did not benefit from Increased Cast Speed from Lore skills."

 

I think that the console versions do not have up to 2.4 so this bug is not fixed on consoles, which diminishes the attraction of this skill for console users. Can someone confirm that this indeed is not fixed on the consoles? Thanks.

Edited by ka243

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chattius    734

On the PC ranged is a right skill, you would need a left skill to unlock it.

Its not the speed, but the lower damage with magic coup which is to be considered when using ranged weapons.

 

weapon lore gives:

attack value

double hits at mastery - not for magic coup

attack speed - not for magic coup

weapon level - = attack speed ,see above

unlock weapon modifiers - most one hand uniques have none to be unlocked

 

I wrote a guide about a melee hardcore elf here in this section. This elf is using alchemy and not a weapon lore. I noticed that I needed a really high hit chance only against bosses. For these few fights I could use alchemy trophies, optimizing my hit chance to hit all normal mobs. But on the console: I heard that alchemy is a bit complex to use there. It is not possible to replace a potion slot with a trophy for more frequent use? Like putting trollteeth at the place green potions normally are. ?

 

If you think that you will be able to use trophies without too much finger acrobatic and if you really want to play ranged: You have already bargaining, so adding alchemy would not mean an extra skill to unlock it. Just a thought. I like my melee elf which has alchemy but no weapon skill a lot: total freedom in which weapon I use for fighting, be it ranged, staves, swords, ...

 

But since I have no console I don't really know how alchemy is be used on them.

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ka243    1
On the PC ranged is a right skill, you would need a left skill to unlock it.

Its not the speed, but the lower damage with magic coup which is to be considered when using ranged weapons.

 

Hi, I think alchemy does require heavy finger acrobatics because trophies can't be slotted as far as I know.

From your analysis, the weapon skill is useless in a magic-coup based that will not be left-clicking build because it adds only attack value, is that correct?

 

Here's what I found in this thread about magic coup speed and ranged weapons:

"Magic Coup works with any weapon, including ranged weapons. Try it with a bow. The only problem with using a bow for Magic Coup is that for some reason the casting animation is very slow (about 1.5 second) so you aren't able to "rapid fire" much."

 

Source: http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron-net.com/sho...ead.php?t=49688

Is this still true or was that fixed? Has anyone had experience with magic coup/ranged weapons on console that could answer this? Thanks.

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chattius    734

You can't use magic coup again before magic coup animation has shot the arrow and the arrow reached the target place. So yes, shooting at a high distance may result in something like 1 second or more. I prefer shurikens for several reasons: quick, still have a shield and you find x% life leech on them.

Speaking of the PC-version: The statistics for last kill show the hit chance for normal left clicks, which is very close to the ones of magic coup for low levels. BUT: even unmodified magic coup has a build in hit chance too. (Confirmed by a developer in german sacred forum). So if you get better in magic coup(50+ combat art level) you get a way better hitchance than left clicks. For a hybrid build which uses spells and weapons I would modify magic coup bronze for sure hits. Damage rings will work on melee and spells, but rings for better hit chance are a waste for the spell component.

 

So if you plan combinations, I read this as spells and melee, don't do a weapon lore at all. Magic coup will hit better and better in late game, even if you don't have a weapon lore. My Alchemy elf is currently at 40% left click hit chance and I don't see her miss normal mobs with magic coup. For a few hard to hit champions and bosses I have to use trophies.

 

On a console I would do 2 weapon sets:

Shuriken/throwing knife/sword/shield which give just enough hit chance with jewels in its sockets for the normal mobs.

Do a special boss killer weapon slot:

x% life leech shuriken/shield with every socket in this slot adding to your hit chance: sure hit, enemy can't evade and such.

 

But I wonder which spells you want to use? Cobalt strile, teleport with explosion, expulse magic modified for undead hunt?

All these spells do magical damage, magic coup does too. So doing ancient magic into a hybrid build is kinda a must have to break magic immunities later in game.

 

With 75 points put in the aspect your skin is from, fire or crystal, you can modify 3 combat arts.

 

If fire, I would vote for fire skin, fire monkey and meteor (for its defense, stun, more and longer lasting meteors). You can modify fire skin for more fire damage and the fire monkey will later five more fire damage too, so together with ancient magic you will get some nice damage which is not arcane,

 

If crystal: crystalskin, cascading shroud and raging nimbus ? Again, ancient magic will help a bit with the damage.

 

But getting ranged lore would eat 2 skills. Too much in my opinion if you plan a hybrid.

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ka243    1

Great ideas and thanks for your help. I haven't made up my mind about CAs and CA mods at this point but I need to do it. I want to get as much survivability as possible through damage mitigation, would be nice to get to 100% damage mitigation...

Fire monkey = Fire demon?

 

Your right, ranged lore is secondary for high elf so that's pretty much out.

 

Does ancient magic extra damage stack with combat discipline extra damage if cas are in a combo?

I need to do some testing with casting execution speed in combos to see if lore effects ca speed in combos on console. I know this is fixed on pc but don't know if it is on consoles.

 

Where would you put stats? I'm not playing hardcore but I want to avoid dieing.

 

Edit: Just found this out from llama: http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron-net.com/sho...ed=1#post609938

 

"Post-2.40 on the PC, the relevant Lore skill improved the casting speed of CAs in a combo, prior to this combo execution speed was affected by your attack speed (regardless of what was in the combo)... Its still broken on the console"

 

Using a weapon lore is thus required if you want to maximize the effectiveness of combat discipline and combo execution speed.

 

So.... Weapon +Combat discipline or weapon+ancient magic but combat discipline+ancient magic without weapon skill is a bad idea. If choosing between combat discipline or ancient magic, which would you pick?

Edited by ka243

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chattius    734

It looks like a monkey, it annoys opponents with its throwing fire fruits(balls) and makes them angry, but it rarely kills them. All this is more monkey than demon :blink:

 

Aus dem Bauch heraus (Whats that in english? On a gut level, acting on instinct?): Combat discipline and ancient magic and trying to get the attack speed from jewelry. You have bargaining. Probably you need 5 jewels early and later 2-3 jewels for full attack speed.

 

Cutting this away from this build discussion and starting a topic in console section about combat disciplin/attack speed and experiences to replace it with jewels might be a good idea. Because I don't want to give any bad advice and I have no experience with console playing. And the answer of this question affects other classes too.

 

Sorry that I am not of more help.

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ka243    1
Cutting this away from this build discussion and starting a topic in console section about combat disciplin/attack speed and experiences to replace it with jewels might be a good idea. Because I don't want to give any bad advice and I have no experience with console playing. And the answer of this question affects other classes too.

 

Sorry that I am not of more help.

 

Thanks you have been very helpful actually. I did make a new topic in the console section.

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Sorry to dredge up an old topic.

 

I have a level 45 HE, that is mostly delphic with a touch of Arrant Pyromancer in him. So far I have only 9 points in Arrant Pyromancer focus (to fully mod the buff). I have a bargainer.

 

2. Armor lore

3. Delphic Focus

5. Arrant Focus

8. Concentration

12. Dephic Lore

18. Sword Weapons (I use bonslicer, since you can get it at character level whenever)

25. Shield Lore

35. Speed lore (mistake, should have taken constituition)

50. Constitution

65. Open

 

I'm in gold and giving it a beating with the help of a Bargainer to provide all skills jewels.

 

My comment is this: Magic coup very soon outshines all other Combat Arts damage wise. Forget the Arrant pyromancer Combat Arts, even cobalt strke, modded for damage and mob killing is weak. One reason to take ancient magic is to give your other Combat Arts a chance to 'catch up'

 

My 2 cents.

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Vivicloud01    0

I'm playing this build off of the 360 and when I use the combo shadow step plus magic coup I dont see magic coup going off. Any suggestions how to get them to work or is this a mess up combp?

 

Cheer

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Spunky    16

Perhaps changing the order the Combat Art's goes off will do the trick(if you have SS first, try to take MC first and vice versa).

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Vivicloud01    0

Yup changing the order from SS/MC to MC/SS worked. I guess I'll leave SS on a button key so that I can go in quickly and then do the combo MC/SS. :D

 

Cheers

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Dordledum    1

Also thinking about going for a Melee High Elf, but want to include Bargaining and EP.

 

Thinking about the following build, is it viable, also on higher levels?

 

* Bargaining

* EP

* Armor Lore

* Constitution

* Shield Lore

* Concentration

* DA Lore

* DA Focus

* Combat Discipline

* AP/MS Focus

 

Also, I'm playing on the 360, what's that about Combat Discipline not working properly? Didn't really understand the discussion above.

 

Sorry, I'm new.

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Dordledum    1

Also thinking about going for a Melee High Elf, but want to include Bargaining and EP.

 

Thinking about the following build, is it viable, also on higher levels?

 

* Bargaining

* EP

* Armor Lore

* Constitution

* Shield Lore

* Concentration

* DA Lore

* DA Focus

* Combat Discipline

* AP/MS Focus

 

Also, I'm playing on the 360, what's that about Combat Discipline not working properly? Didn't really understand the discussion above.

 

Sorry, I'm new.

A few years later, revisiting this character-idea. Initially forgot about this thread, made a new elf and came to a similar/but not entirely identical build:

  • Armor Lore
  • Constitution
  • Shield Lore
  • Bargaining
  • Enhanced Perception
  • Concentration
  • DA Lore
  • DA Focus
  • AP/MS Focus
  • Speed Lore

Have to read up on why to take MS or AP as secondary buff. Remember both had their merits, but can't find the corresponding threads.

Fire it is! And Speed Lore requires another offensive skill... what to take as #10; guess I'll go for Spell Resistance.

Edited by Dordledum

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