Enhanced Perception and Magic Find - Item Drop Explanation

[Spunky 16]

Indeed, have gotten my share of uniques and sets from those chests(without EP that is).

[Llama8 8]

now with the ice & blood expansion - regarding the enhanced perception skill ,

 

have they only modified the tooltip of EP a little, or also the way it (should) work ?

I believe it's just a fix to the tooltip.

[Schot 407]

Recently, I came upon The invisible Maze (Bloodforest) in Ice & Blood ..

one of the small dungeons you can fall into when you step on the wrong tile, has some nice crates in it too..

 

Oh that's a good one. It's a cool looking room too. I noticed it a while ago and even without EP the chests, 3 or 4, dropped a lot of yellows. You can see from the screenshots on the The Legacy of the Mage page where caves are. Stepping on the purple squares will port you into one of it's 3 caves. The treasure room is one of them and in another there is a curiously unique enemy not found anywhere else I believe. A Garloth or some such thing. It's a burning ghost. Not sure what to make of it yet but...

[Llama8 8]

Is it a burning ghost like the ones up in the Crystal region (IIRC they were deceased spirits of the former occupants of that area & they lure'd my seraphim into a "trap", a few seconds later, lots of dead-er ghosties...).

[Schot 407]

Oh hmmm, I've not ever seen that in the Crystal Region. Were they literally burning? Is in a burning fire graphic all around their bodies? The one I saw in the maze has that.

[Llama8 8]

Yup, a ghost that was on fire (ala Eternal Flame).

[imacutya 0]

Does it effect the % chance to drop valuables?

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

it has influence on gear that has CtF mods. EP will then increase the chance to find.

 

Mastery of EP grants an extra bonus to CtF, I do not recall the % tho. It was a nice add

 

This bonus of EP mastery does not however show in your Sigma tooltip. It seems to be independant.

 

Greetz

Edited March 7, 2010 by Barristan

[Lord-Anansi 0]

not getting EP=more points for things that make you stronger

 

more points for things that make you stronger=faster farming/less deaths/more drops

 

faster farming/less deaths/more drops>wasting points on a double-edged sword

 

ergo

 

don't waste your time

[gogoblender 3,069]

not getting EP=more points for things that make you stronger

 

Would have to disagree, but I'll take some time getting to how I found the skill to be useful.

 

And just saw this, your first post here Lord Anansi, and just wanted to welcome you to DarkMatters.

 

I think there's times when I found EP to be pretty useful, especially for toons that I have no uniques, weps or sets for already stored up for in advance...If this is a primary distillation of a build, the EP has come in pretty useful for me.

 

Of course, late game release, it's much easier for me now to cut corners and get away without using EP like I used to in the old days... all my friends have the gear, and since we know everyone online, getting stuff could perhaps even be considered part of a "build".

 

For new players with zero equipment, new to the community etc... EP can play a clever part in amassing goodies, while awaiting for the day when a player has amassed so much/many resources/friends that... Yay... the creation of the first Zero-Utility build makes it's appearance!

 

 

Until then, I have found all the skills to have their uses and have found this to be one of the strengths of the game, and one of the reasons for Sacred 2's place being one of the rarest games that has real depth of builds and mechanics.

 

Just too bad the box didn't come with some Raid

 

 

gogo

[Lord-Anansi 0]

Thanks for the welcome

 

But I'm still not convinced that EP is a viable replacement for any of the skills that make the lvls fly by faster.

It's not like the droprates are so horrible, compared to some of the things you have to do in other games to get "rare" gear.

(thinking of the 1000's of MF runs I did on D2 or the PUG's I had to go trough in the game that must not be named)

So why would you handicap yourself with something like EP when you know it will only be a disadvantage in high level pvm/pvp?

Even blacksmithing and alchemy are better in a sense that they give you something nobody else has. (if they have not taken the skill)

EP on the other hand gives you a better chance of something happening that did not have a unlikely chance of happening in the first place

 

They should not have made magic find dependable on a skill, but rather on specialized equipment.

That way you would not be forced to make an entire build for the soul purpose of itemization but be able to do some magic find runs by just switching equipments.

Lumping bargaining+EP together in 1 skill would not be stupid either imo.

 

Or is there something I'm missing?

 

Grtz

[SolomonGrundy 1]

Thanks for the welcome

 

But I'm still not convinced that EP is a viable replacement for any of the skills that make the lvls fly by faster.

It's not like the droprates are so horrible, compared to some of the things you have to do in other games to get "rare" gear.

(thinking of the 1000's of MF runs I did on D2 or the PUG's I had to go trough in the game that must not be named)

So why would you handicap yourself with something like EP when you know it will only be a disadvantage in high level pvm/pvp?

Even blacksmithing and alchemy are better in a sense that they give you something nobody else has. (if they have not taken the skill)

EP on the other hand gives you a better chance of something happening that did not have a unlikely chance of happening in the first place

 

They should not have made magic find dependable on a skill, but rather on specialized equipment.

That way you would not be forced to make an entire build for the soul purpose of itemization but be able to do some magic find runs by just switching equipments.

Lumping bargaining+EP together in 1 skill would not be stupid either imo.

 

Or is there something I'm missing?

 

Grtz

 

Look at it this way. EP rewards you for playing, which I find to be a very compelling argument for it. Bargaining (the other way to get great stuff), means endless journeys into the sewer and back to the merchant waiting for the shop to reset so you can find the right ring/amulet, which feels less like playing.

[Lord-Anansi 0]

Thanks for the welcome

 

But I'm still not convinced that EP is a viable replacement for any of the skills that make the lvls fly by faster.

It's not like the droprates are so horrible, compared to some of the things you have to do in other games to get "rare" gear.

(thinking of the 1000's of MF runs I did on D2 or the PUG's I had to go trough in the game that must not be named)

So why would you handicap yourself with something like EP when you know it will only be a disadvantage in high level pvm/pvp?

Even blacksmithing and alchemy are better in a sense that they give you something nobody else has. (if they have not taken the skill)

EP on the other hand gives you a better chance of something happening that did not have a unlikely chance of happening in the first place

 

They should not have made magic find dependable on a skill, but rather on specialized equipment.

That way you would not be forced to make an entire build for the soul purpose of itemization but be able to do some magic find runs by just switching equipments.

Lumping bargaining+EP together in 1 skill would not be stupid either imo.

 

Or is there something I'm missing?

 

Grtz

 

Look at it this way. EP rewards you for playing, which I find to be a very compelling argument for it. Bargaining (the other way to get great stuff), means endless journeys into the sewer and back to the merchant waiting for the shop to reset so you can find the right ring/amulet, which feels less like playing.

I was merely saying that making 1 skill out of those 2 would make them somewhat more viable.

 

The question is if those increased drop percentages are enough of an advantage when compared to someone that invested those points in something that directly optimizes your killspeed/gameplay.

 

Grtz

[essjayehm 58]

I was merely saying that making 1 skill out of those 2 would make them somewhat more viable.

 

The question is if those increased drop percentages are enough of an advantage when compared to someone that invested those points in something that directly optimizes your killspeed/gameplay.

 

Grtz

 

 

It's not a bad argument, but I think most Sacred players would agree we have EP and Bargaining as seperate skills (with a 10-skill max for a toon) so that it is not an "automatic" pick - mashing EP and Barg. into one skill would make it a must-have for just about every build. Having them seperate makes it a real decision to take one, both or none!

 

Yes, Alchemy, Riding, and even Devine Devotion are "better" general skills because they DIRECTLY affect your combat (arguments against DD accepted!)

 

However, I have found that INDIRECTLY, Bargaining is the most powerful skill in the game. Bar none.

Probably because I play console version (with "better" +allskills, etc). AND I don't have experience with Blacksmithing (amulets in silver slots? Yes, please) Having the right equipment with the right modifiers AND slots for tweaking is soooooooooooo important if you are going for a powerful build.

 

Now, as for EP... Since maxing it with my DW Dryad build, I can say that it is not very good at all at low levels, and that higher damage (one-shot kills) is MUCH better for getting good drops. However, as the levels go up, and progress thru the difficulties to Niob, one-shot killing becomes tougher, so EP may actually be the main factor for good drops at that point. I cannot say for sure, because I've only had one toon up to level 100 and not for very long, either. 8(

 

Hope that helps?

Edited March 24, 2010 by essjayehm

[gogoblender 3,069]

The question is if those increased drop percentages are enough of an advantage when compared to someone that invested those points in something that directly optimizes your killspeed/gameplay.

 

Grtz

That's the thing though. EP is that easy...you just drop in points, and Whammo... like Solomon said..a regular player gets rewards. Bargaining is fantasitc...but it's not just the points you mention that you have to invest in it..it's also the brains, luck, insight and massive patience and money that needs to be all rolled together to produce good trading networks. And the best bargainer is nothing without the smither. The smither addss that blinding, glorious cherry on top of a fabulous build cobbled together with beautiful items bought in stores five levels higher. A build cannot be perfect without the smither to jam in that amulet into the silver socket, or it's ring into it's bronze brother's socket.

 

I'm not sure if a casual player is interested in that.

 

He'd be more interested in just choosing a skill that produces better drops...easy in, easy out.

 

EP...the skill for casual players.

 

 

gogo

[SolomonGrundy 1]

"However, I have found that INDIRECTLY, Bargaining is the most powerful skill in the game"

 

This is without a doubt the case.

 

"EP...the skill for casual players."

 

This is true, AND it is a good skill (as you mentioned) for "building up your warchest"

[Shattered Rift 2]

2)assuming an item drops, a random number is then calculated & what it is determins what quality of item drops (as an example, picking numbers of my ####): for a random number generated between 0 & 1,000, if you roll 990 - 1,000, you'd get a unique item, if you roll 960 - 989 you'd get a set, 920 - 959 & you'd get a rare, 860 - 919 & you'd get a magic item, 0-859 & you get a junk item (each "bin" getting smaller as you go up the item quality scale).

 

MF increases the size of the unique/set/rare/magic "bins" at the expense of the junk bin. If the chance to drop a junk item reached 0, the magic item bin would be reduced, etc.

So 86% chance of junk, 6% chance of a magic item, 4% chance of a rare item, 3% chance of a set item, and 1% of a unique item.

 

Newbie question: what level(s) do you need to be to start seeing each type of drop? (It's not possible to find Level 1 set items, for instance, is it? I know I didn't find any until my Temple Guardian hit Level 20-something.)

 

 

So, does Enhanced Perception (and was Magic Find % the item version?) add or multiply to the above ranges of an enemy/chest dropping a magic/rare/set/unique by its percent, or is the formula more complicated? (Or is it even known at all?)

Edited April 5, 2010 by Shattered Rift

[Llama8 8]

Unfortunately no, we don't know the formula, though it's probably the sum of the +% MF gear (& map uncovered MF bonus), EP bonuses & SB that are then used as a multiplier for the "bin sizes".

[jnecros 2]

Unfortunately no, we don't know the formula, though it's probably the sum of the +% MF gear (& map uncovered MF bonus), Enhanced Perception bonuses & SB that are then used as a multiplier for the "bin sizes".

 

 

Not sure what the map uncovered MF bonus means and can not seem to find it by searching, can you tell me about this please? Is there some bonus to mf if you explore the map? thanks

[Spunky 16]

Yes, by every 4% Map Explored you gain 1% to your basic MF.

[jnecros 2]

Yes, by every 4% Map Explored you gain 1% to your basic MF.

 

ooh nice thanks man

[SolomonGrundy 1]

Yes, by every 4% Map Explored you gain 1% to your basic MF.

 

except on consoles, where it is 1/10th this amount

/bitterness

[Spunky 16]

I've heard of that, only reason to explore then is to clear away the fog so it looks better when looking at the map.

[essjayehm 58]

I've heard of that, only reason to explore then is to clear away the fog so it looks better when looking at the map.

 

Yeah... I guess 8/ The highest I got before getting disgruntled was about 72%. Everything above ground was clear, but I was missing a fair number of caves and hadn't done any "edging" - extending the vis. range into the edges of the map.

 

Now, I usually leave "trails" that I follow for various reasons (Viperish Disease runs, the desert section of the light camp. where we got to go to the tomb for the scroll, etc)

 

So really, map explored is completely unimportant for console (and unwanted, in some areas

[Etherian 76]

There was always much debate and arguement on the mf% to drop ratio within the known Diablo 2 LoD Universe.

 

Very comforting to read the Sacred 2 community has a much better understanding on this very important game related issue! For once, I feel I can believe what I read and not merely toss it aside as gossip!

 

Thanks to all who actually know what they are posting on as fact and not based on assumption!

 

I remain, Etherian