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Utility Temple Guardian Build


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#1 Dobri

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 01:24 AM

Ever since I made my first char in S2FA, which was a Temple Guardian, I was left with a gut feeling that there's more in him that meets the eye.

Well, he can't outgun a ranged char - battery damage is low, and if he goes for a gun, he practically wastes the battery (although dedicated blow and battle extension alleviate that, he still needs to put points in ranged weapons way too often). The BFG Seraphim with a gun and shield can be a lot more useful, and she can put the ranged points elsewhere ...
He can't outdamage a melee char - because of the 1-weapon restriction and thus no dual wield...
To top this, he can't outdamage a caster char - Source warden and Lost fusion can never match the wicked spells of the Inquisitor and the High Elf...

However, there is something that easily catches the eye. The TG can use most of the useful utility skills without taking too much penalty to the desired build. One of the best utility skills setup is Bargaining + Enhanced Perception + Blacksmith. There are a few chars who can take 2 of those, and only one char that can take all 3 of them. Yes, you guessed it. That one char is the Temple Guardian.

REASONING:

Let's analyze. Bargaining + Blacksmith skills on one char are the best blessing the game can provide. This char will be both a shopper and a smith. This char will save you a lot of precious time. This char will do pretty much anything for you and will ensure the easy-going of all other chars. Well... there are only 2 chars that can use this skill setup: the Inquisitor and the Temple Guardian.

Let's go in-depth now. It's a simple matter of Inquisitor skills vs. Temple Guardian skills.

As an Inquisitor, you'll need severe damage reduction (because you can't use a shield which is a severe drawback in armor values that MUST be compensated) and you'll need to spec 1 or 2 of the CA trees. That should mean, for example - Dual wield, Tactics, Armor lore, Concentration, Constitution, Toughness, Spell Resistance/Gruesome Inquisition, Astute Lore, Astute Focus, 1 left. This leaves you very low on utility skill picks.

The TG however, should not worry about protection. The in-combat regenerating shield is a blessing. Before I continue the analysis, this article in wiki should provide much needed info. You should read it through carefully, if you want to try this build out. It will give you a lot of insight as to what to do or what to look for while using those utility skills (smithing and bargaining).

http://sacredwiki.or...:Energy_Shields

To continue. The TG on the other side can actually squeeze in quite a lot of free picks which can be put in many different areas: offensive, defensive, or utility. based on that, I can propose the following utility build:

level 2 -> Sword/Hafted Lore - pick whichever you wish. Keep it equal to your char level.
level 3 -> Tactics lore - more weapon damage and more critical hits. Keep it equal to your char level.
level 5* -> Devout Guardian Focus - to start modding the skills quickly and get yourself a powerful dedicated blow. Making in and outs with a TG while simply slapping a dedicated blow is a good way to deal with most bosses.
level 8 -> Concentration - get T-Shroud and Battle Aura buffs ASAP. Leave it at 1 point and let the + all skills gear do the rest. When you go over 75 with +all skills, you can add untouchable force for some 10% stun.
level 12 -> Blacksmith - utilize that straight away and start filling those sockets with useful runes/rings/amulets. Keep it at a decent level and let + all skills gear to handle the rest.
level 18 -> Bargaining - as soon as you have 5 points in smith, add this and make yourself a shopper gear. Add points every now and then and let + all skills gear do the rest.
level 25 -> Armor Lore - can't do without this one.
level 35 -> Constitution - try to have this at 75 by char level 75. HP regen in combat is crucial.
level 50 -> Warding Energy Lore - we can't go without this one if we want to have a build that can take a lot of damage and survive. You can keep it at 1 point for the time being and let + all skills gear do the rest.
level 65* -> Enhanced perception - our final utility skill. Adding points here combined with relics and +all skills gear will ensure better drops.

Well now :P There are 2 skills in this build that can be substituted for something else. These skills are Devout Focus and Enhanced Perception. Omitting 1 or 2 of them will allow for greater flexibility of this build. Options:

1 -> Drop the Combat arts. Add Toughness and Combat reflexes. Use your blacksmithing skill to improve your swords and batteries. An officers saber with 3 rings/amulets that add good damage +% or +all skills and chance for death blow is simply wicked. You can also opt for 3 runes that improve the damage and get a big boost to it. Your call :P
2 -> Substitute EP for toughness or combat reflexes, keep Devout, and give yourself some more survivability. You'll be sort of low on better magic find, but that's nothing that bargaining can't compensate.
3 -> Spec a tree. 2 picks is enough to spec Lost Fusion or Source Warden. There is no loss here, since Tactics lore will allow you to mod Devout guardian Combat Arts which include T-Shroud and Battle aura. It will just be a bit slower and will take longer, so prioritize :)

I, personally, like the third option, although it omits EP. It may give you an opportunity to add a third buff - untouchable force, which if you improve properly will provide some nice stunning, and of course, it also works on bosses.

Note that picking another option may for you to rearrange the build I proposed. Use your best judgment here.

MODS:
T-Shroud - Power (more shield) -> Recharge (in-combat regen) -> Reflection (spells reflection)
Combat alert - Assault (attack bonus to weapons - we are protected well enough) -> Riposte (Melee reflection) -> Permanent (your second buff)

The rest is up to you. If you go for Devout, make sure you have as much damage as possible, since this is what this build lacks. If you spec a tree, make sure you mod for damage (fusion) or better Area of Effect damage (Warden).

To conclude - this build is based on utility and shields to compensate for the lack of additional defensive skills. You have in-combat T-shroud and HP regen. It may take a bit longer to kill, but hey, this is not an offensive build - and every player should have a smith and a shopper if he/she wants a good complement to his other chars. A TG may well provide both :)

Oh, and... did I miss telling you I love utility builds? I did? Sorry.

I LOVE UTILITY BUILDS!!

And... I like doing things the hard way ;)

Edited by gogoblender, 15 February 2009 - 04:08 PM.

Char status:

Taerima, level 80 Guardian

Bai Dobchan, level 80 Elementalist

Dobchan level 80 Ranger

Master Crafter


#2 Llama8

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 12:39 PM

because of the 1-weapon restriction and thus no dual wield...

That's not quite true. The passive bonus on Battle Extension gives dual wielding, it's not constant unless you're mounted on the Wheel though.

T-Shroud - Power (more shield) -> Recharge (in-combat regen) -> Your call. I pick power.
Combat alert - Assault (attack bonus to weapons - we are protected well enough) -> Repair (since you'll have this maxed, it will give you additional regen boost to constitution) -> Permanent (your second buff)

Personally, for T-energy Shroud, I'd go for the magic reflection on the third mod, as it'll give you a % chance to reflect all CAs, spells or otherwise. If you're going to be going for melee combat, the melee reflection mod on Battle Aura will go nicely with the CA reflection mod on T-energy Shroud, leaving ranged attacks as the only thing you can't reflect! Because of these, I'd max Devout Guardian Focus as it'll allow you to keep your two defensive buffs at a higher level, which means more reflection...

#3 Dobri

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Posted 15 February 2009 - 01:16 PM

There is a point to that. I was usually going for power, since the damage mitigation of the Shroud is absolute and does not account for types of damage and such. Battle aura will reduce all of its mods to 1/2 when it turns to a buff, but I guess in 60+ levels of the CA as a buff, the reflection will become even more noticeable.

As for the ranged attacks, if you sub EP for Warden Focus, Untouchable force can do just that with a few mods - in addition to a nice stun. However, I'll be thinking about that when I reach level 65. This is my main reason to leave it as a last pick. And besides, the big idea was to get the best utility build and without EP it loses some of its charm :) Although I must admit, I would love to have 3 buffs that can deal with the majority of attacks thrown at me.

Battle extension will come in handy, but it will require some micromanagement. There is no loss to shoot and when the enemy gets close to switch to it. So far I'm not planning on using a wheel at all (I usually improve speed through other means), although I will get one - the TG's wheel is just so cool :)

I shall make the appropriate corrections, but will continue with the testing.

Edited by Dobri, 15 February 2009 - 01:25 PM.

Char status:

Taerima, level 80 Guardian

Bai Dobchan, level 80 Elementalist

Dobchan level 80 Ranger

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#4 Llama8

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Posted 16 February 2009 - 03:36 PM

There is a point to that. I was usually going for power, since the damage mitigation of the Shroud is absolute and does not account for types of damage and such. Battle aura will reduce all of its mods to 1/2 when it turns to a buff, but I guess in 60+ levels of the CA as a buff, the reflection will become even more noticeable.

At level ~20-25 Battle Aura it's ~45% reflection.

#5 Vortec35

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:04 PM

Hello thank you for this guide. Was just what I was looking for for my second toon. I have a level 40 sep in silver single player and wanted a utility toon. I am going by your vanilla guide(the first part) For some reason however I just hit 8 and can not take concentration. Any idea why? I have chosen the 3 previous sword devout, and tactics lore.

#6 Dobri

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 12:13 PM

Concentration is a secondary skill in the TG tree. You must have 5 hard points in devout guardian in order to be able to take it :(

Char status:

Taerima, level 80 Guardian

Bai Dobchan, level 80 Elementalist

Dobchan level 80 Ranger

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#7 Vortec35

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 02:31 PM

I see the problem is I cant find a way to put points into devout gaurdian now. It will allow me to just pick skills. Is there a way to do this? I just hit 12 and picked blacksmith but I still have one skill to choose thus I cant get concentration.


Edit ok I figured out how to go back to putting points in however for some reason I had to boost devout up to 7 before I could take concentration. Five would not do it.

Also I just fought my first boss, the koblod Cheif and it took a lonnnng time. Just a couple hits would take my shield down to nothing or one rock.. and it regenerated very fast..

Dedicated blow did not do much damage nor did the attack that hits with the extra arm. You said to keep Tactics and sword = to level but I am having problems doing that and pumping the rest up. How many points should I be putting into concentration and devout focus by the way.?

As far as mods I have been moding some dedicated blow with confident and the one that increases damage. I also modded T like you mentioned for more energy. Are you saying I should only be modding T energy and combat alert?

Last question for now. What attributes should I be working on? Mostly Str? Or are there others too I need? I just put dedicated blow into a armor chest piece from the armorer and I noticed that my ca increased in time to use. I thought this was not suppose to go up if you used it in armor? Am I wrong here? Thanks.

Edited by Vortec35, 02 April 2009 - 03:06 PM.


#8 gogoblender

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:14 PM

Edit ok I figured out how to go back to putting points in however for some reason I had to boost devout up to 7 before I could take concentration. Five would not do it.


That happens to me a bit when starting out as well. This happens because, in your case, you probably only had three hard points. (Hard skill points are the ones you choose yourself... none from gear, which are soft points)...the other were coming from gear.

By you bringing up the number to 7 via two more points skill points you put in yourself, you meet the min requirements necessary to be able to choose a second tier skill because the hard points finally went to five.
:heart:

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#9 Vortec35

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Posted 02 April 2009 - 09:30 PM

Edit ok I figured out how to go back to putting points in however for some reason I had to boost devout up to 7 before I could take concentration. Five would not do it.


That happens to me a bit when starting out as well. This happens because, in your case, you probably only had three hard points. (Hard skill points are the ones you choose yourself... none from gear, which are soft points)...the other were coming from gear.

By you bringing up the number to 7 via two more points skill points you put in yourself, you meet the min requirements necessary to be able to choose a second tier skill because the hard points finally went to five.
:heart:

gogo


Thanks gogo. There is a lot to learn. Dobri can you help with the other questions? I have a lot of time to play tommorrow (Amercian time) and want to level up to around 25 hopefully.

#10 BLinDwithDeniaL

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 03:57 PM

Er... I think I might be a noob, but where did you find the battle aura? as far as I can see from the rune panel; the only buffs are T-E Shroud and UF




***Edit***

HA! found it! Must say the TG is alot different to the other classes O.o

Edited by BLinDwithDeniaL, 19 May 2009 - 04:10 PM.


#11 nokka

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 06:05 AM

Slightly off-topic question:
Has Ascaron changed ALL the skills in 2.40 so that only hard points give mastery bonuses?

I'm trying to make a TG that's very utility and a little bit tank.
Before I leave the drawing board, It'd be useful to know.

I'd use the same skills as you named:

Blacksmith : 200
Armour Lore: 75
Bargaining : 195
Tactics Lore: 75
DG Focus: 75
Concentration: 1
Sword Weapons: 75 (It seems the items are better than Hafted; Stylistically, though, smiths wield hammers.)
Constitution: 75
WE Lore: 75
EP: 75

But I'd honestly rather be able to max Constitution as well, and would be willing to give up Mastery in Sword/Hafted Weapons and Warding Energy maybe even EP (bad idea?), especially if I knew they weren't necessary or were even granted by soft points from +all skills.

What do you (or anybody for that matter) know about that.
(Advice, critique and slaps on the hand concerning the idea are also very welcome.)

Thanks in advance,
nat

#12 Zinsho

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 07:40 AM

Soft-point mastery bonuses were a bug, they were never intended. So yes, they were removed.

One thing worth noting, you'd have to look on sif for the exact value but there is a cap to the bonuses from blacksmith at something like 25% above player level. It might be worth looking into rather than spending too many points, you will eventually reach a point where the arts will not give any additional bonus, better to reach that point with soft-points and save your hard points for boosting constitution for example.

I wouldn't lose EP/WEL... although T-Energy Shroud works a bit differently than how I had thought with regards to in combat regen (must make a post about this *note to self*).

Since you're going to be using Bargaining, I'm uncertain how much benefit you'd gain from maxing Constitution rather than using +skills. I would suspect (no solid knowledge due to not having reached that point) but it is quite possible you would be able to make do with 75 in blacksmithing (and still have max forging ability thanks to +skills), that would give you points to either max constitution (or at least come close).

The only other note I would make is that Combat Alert is more powerful than Battle Alert (2x the bonuses more or less) and by character level 100 or so it shouldn't be very hard to keep the casting time very close to the duration, and later still have it below duration. Considering you won't be in battle 24/7 the slight downtime could well be worth the freed up skill... of course any skill you'd take would likely need 75 points for mastery (unless mastery has no real benefit for it).

#13 nokka

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 02:24 PM

Thank you for the quick reply.

I'm still waiting for a game where nothing is capped, you use the resources you have, suffer the consequences of your negligence and get the full benefit of your commitment (e.g. to a skill).

My hope was to be able to build myself a blacksmith to end all blacksmiths. (... turns out it isn't really worth the points?)
I was hoping to have a smith I could community chest a level 25 piece of equipment and a level 25 piece of jewelry and perform a perfected socketing job turning any 5,5% into an 11% at least.

The max level cap on Blacksmith isn't a problem. If I'm level 200, I'm sure it'll be fine if I can only work up to level 250 gear. It's whether there's a cap on the quality that I'm wondering about. Specifically, that bonus you sometimes get when socketing +skills jewelry and +1 turns to +2 and +2 to +3 or even +4 (!).

I looked on the SIF a little (english), and couldn't find much more than lots of confusion and some nice posts with no real answers. So far Blacksmith seems to be a bit of a mystery...

I think I'll take the levels before 75 to carefully think it over. First opinion, master all the skills and +all skills (is there an abbr. for that?) the rest. (enough points to master all, max one and have 46 pts left over.)

In your (anybody's) opinion, is there any skill worth maxing? (xept Bargaining)

Thanks for the word of caution.
nat

ps: As for recasting auras, in Sacred, Ghost Meadow's 3min runtime went by quickly enough. I'm far too inattentive to be able to keep recasting every 20 seconds. To avoid that, I'd be willing to suffer a weaker buff. :Just_Cuz_12:

#14 Zinsho

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 02:33 PM

It's a lot more than 20s though, at level 75 I've already got it closer to 25s without pumping it to the point where diminishing returns are useless.

The bonuses you get from socketing the skills are fairly simple, you get +X% of the value listed (which is a rounded down decimal value) so in theory you can get an extra +2/+3 at later levels.

That bonus won't matter based on your bargaining level, it is entirely based on the innate values of the ring/amulet.

There is a post somewhere on SIF about max values, I'll look for it when I get home.

#15 nokka

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 05:22 PM

does this +X% grow with Blacksmith skill level? please? If not then mastery is enough. I don't use Smith Arts that often, it's really only +all skills jewelry with some nice extras like +damage or deathblow or (fingers crossed) ignore armour.

Two side notes:

Firstly, is my understanding of a Tank correct in saying that the point is that when you are at 25% max health (WIDD peak) you have enough life left over and enough reistance/evade/mitigation that you're safe remaining at that level (and dealing your insane WIDD).

Secondly: Why, by the hammer of Thor, can I not edit my own posts! I had a few posts that I wanted to update, but the edit option is not there. Are they too old to edit? I can edit the other two posts in this thread, for example. Can anybody halp!

nat

ps: I have a sneaking suspicion that the bronze/silver/gold socket multipliers don't scale with any kind of level... fingers still crossed..

#16 Zinsho

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 05:49 PM

The ones from the blacksmith remain static at their difficulties.

However the ones you can forge yourself start out lower however can end up providing greater increases than those of the smith.

#17 Dobri

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 04:53 PM

Seems Zin was kind enough to keep the original Utility TG topic (6 months now) alive for quite some time... Thanks a heap, Zin!

Char status:

Taerima, level 80 Guardian

Bai Dobchan, level 80 Elementalist

Dobchan level 80 Ranger

Master Crafter


#18 nomad13

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 08:02 PM

What is the best attribute when starting this toon on HC ?

Ive been dumping my initial points on Vit. cuz the regen helps alot and it feels safer, but is there any other strategy for attributes for example later in the game am I gonna miss those points ?

#19 Dobri

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 08:20 PM

In my eyes, Vitality is the only attribute one can never go wrong with. I'm usually pumping vitality even if I'm making a caster build. In HC, the more HP you have, the better. The faster they regen, the better :ninja:

Char status:

Taerima, level 80 Guardian

Bai Dobchan, level 80 Elementalist

Dobchan level 80 Ranger

Master Crafter


#20 chlebo

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 05:45 AM

What about pick instead of constitution, combat disciple cause this build is lack of dmg. On high levels TG doesnt need hp cause of shield m I wrong?




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