Chance to Hit Calculator - Priceless

[gogoblender 3,068]

For a ranged and/or melee build, the ability to hit one's opponents successfully is crucial. Not hitting opponents as often as possible is like having damage flying out the window. Sacred 2 differs greatly from Sacred with the inclusion of new mods that make the process of choosing socketables and/or armor that offer benefits for hitting well much more complicated. With Sacred, the only thing a player really had to look at was Attack. Your level of Attack would determine whether a blow would land or not, depending on the level of Defense that an enemy had. Depending on much higher your Attack rating was than the enemy's Defense, your blow would have a percentage chance of successfully landing or not.

 

Enter Evasion. Evasion is a powerful mod that can let a player have umpteen levels of Attack, but if the enemy has high evasive properties, you'll be flailing away as if hitting air. The fact that sacred 2 has four mods (Actually I think it's five ) that affect chance to hit make determining how well you hit even harder when shopping and attempting to finally settle on gear that you think may have been a good choice or not.

 

I know that for a while, because of where the Atttack rating is located right at the top of the inventory screen when pressing "F", I was quickly always looking at that to make my decisions with. Always looking to see if what I had socketed would give me better Attack or not... and leaving it at that.

 

What was happening, was that in higher levels like Platinum...I would be reading that Attack Rating and thinking that "oh, since it says it higher I'll have a higher chance to hit"...and when I would take my toon out for a test drive...

 

Disaster.

 

I've a keen ear for hits and number of hits. Sometimes I'd socket for that higher AR (Attack Rating) but my Dryad wasn't getting that lovely three hits per CA strike that I'd trained my ear to listen for. So...how to reconcile this?

 

Enter Zinsho, and some marvelous conversations with him. I'd been looking at that Chance to Hit Calculator for a while, and had asked him if he thought that it calculated ALL mods regarding chance to hit... and his answer was yes. Testing proves it...and what a powerful tool this is. Where once, I was struggling to figger out which of the two evasion mods were better and whether a sole Evasion mod could beat out a combined ring with both Attack and another Attack % mod upon it... now I ponder no more... which has sort of taken the fun out of this, but... lol, this stuff's a whole lot easier now ^^

 

The Chance to Hit Calculator is powerful because it groups Chance to Hit as an umbrella classification for ALL the mods which offer a player a better chance to land successful blows.

 

 

Opponent's Chance to Evade

Chance that Opponent's Cannot Evade Attacks

Attack Value +x

Attack Value +%

 

If we use only the Attack Rate Calculator, we only get one of the variables the game uses when computing Chance to Hit.

 

 

And that's not enough. Because monsters use evasion, it's important to have a tool that can compute all of the variables, and this does just that. No more figuring out which of the mods works best...just let the calculator tell you what, at this time of your toon's life, IS the best.

 

The Winner for ranged Dryad via using the calculator?

 

Opponent's Chance to Evade

 

Easily

 

I'm actually surprised that one single mod like this can give so much more Chance to Hit than any other mod in the game. In fact, when comparing mods over the last few days, I've yet to see a single combination of any of the other three mods that can best it. I'm thinking that because I have so many points in my Ranged Lore, and a few in Dex, that my Attack Level has given me a good base, and that Anti Evasion properties of these rings could be contributing to the part of my Chance to Hit that needs it most. I've come to understand that rings with Opponent's Chance to Evade combined with a good second mod are rare. Very rare.

 

The Calculator is made even more powerful by the fact that you can retain memory of all the last ten stats of creatures you've killed... and then play with your entire build via armor, sockets, socketables, etc... and then see how via the calculator's numbers whether you could have worn better armor to have landed more successful blows. Think of it as a way of fighting virtual battles without actually having to go into battle ^^

 

The Calculator's other great super cool power is that it runs live. As a result of finally making this connection, I have gotten into the habit of leaving my "C" key panel open and letting the calculator run it's numbers live while I'm taking out groups of enemies in an area to see what the "range" of my chance to hit is v.s. them. Of course, we're always looking to trade out as much Chance to Hit so that we can have better damage efficiencies while killing...and it's always interesting to see the huge jump in numbers happen live when I go up against a Champion and see that what I had thought was an efficient Chance to Hit, actually costs me more time when going up against a Champ and it takes me longer to kill him because of the many more misses.

 

Interesting conclusion to all of this? The single most valuable socketable I've found in all of the drops in the game for a ranged Dryad is:

 

Inquisition Token

 

 

Just a few of these socketed over all my armor has almost fully won me all the Chance to Hit v.s. the monsters I usually kill from the previous mods, leaving me with more room for damage.

 

The headaches (ahh, fun? ) Of trying to figure out which of the chance to hit mods at this specific time in my toon's life with the armor it's wearing have now been replaced with a simple testing procedure of placing rings and amulets in and out of armor and seeing what the calculator tells me is best.

 

Of course...that particular anti-evasion mod works well for me, because of the way my dryad is being built. The calculator may show you different results, depending on how you've built, and what your best needs are. Just plop all the different Chance to Hit rings you have into it, and let it tell you what's best to socket next.

 

Cheers

 

 

gogo

[Schot 407]

Wonderful write up gogo and certainly a necessity for any weapons based build. After reading your article I can't imagine any other way to monitor my ability to land hits on enemies. Just pop open that skills window, ©, and have a look at the bottom. Swap your gear and watch your Chance to Hit change on the fly.

 

So I guess my question is this. Are there different qualities of mods to help improve Chance to hit? Will one always garner greater results than another? I would be very curious to know of a test case with zero equipment on that just swapped the different kinds of Chance to hit mods via rings/amies. Results could be very interesting.

 

Also, I aggree. I think there are 5 as well. "Opponent's Defense -x%" ?

 

 

Great stuff!

[stubbie 21]

Thanks so much for posting this gogo.

 

I hardly took notice of the chance to hit.

Like you I was more concerned with attack, no wonder I was just slashing at the wind at times.

 

This makes deciding what mods to equip a lot easier.

[gogoblender 3,068]

Ha, Stubbie, this is exactly what I wrote it up! lol, I think us oldschool sacred players like us have become so used to using that very easy Attack Rate Calculator, that we just never bothered opening up the other calculator. I've found I don't even bother to determine what an "absolute" mod for CTH (Chance to HIt) is anymore...I just plop the ring in and if it works great. Takes the guess work out, and I just let the calculator help me with my choices.

 

If the Calculator says socketing one thing is better than another I do what it says. Going to be interesting on trying this strategy with other classes and seeing what kinds of builds it produces ^^

 

 

gogo

[FrostElfGuard 9]

Excellent work once more Rommel!

 

This harkens back to S1 with the hidden "Spell Resistance" that Dragons (and probably all enemies) had. When UW came out, SR began to be on our radar.

 

Chance to evade is your current boss mod... but that's only 'cause you've stacked the others so high!

 

Thanks for sharing!

[Schot 407]

Hmmm, I wonder if this works in reverse as well? Is the mod as effective when applied to the player?

[gogoblender 3,068]

Chance to evade is your current boss mod... but that's only 'cause you've stacked the others so high!

 

 

Exactly!

 

In fact...I've actually stopped caring now about an "absolute" best CTH (Chance to hit) mod anymore...the Calculator makes it irrelevant ^^

 

The calculator is brilliant. It teaches us what our toons needs depending on what we've chosen for attributes, skills and armor...and tells us what we need to socket for best cth from the items at hand.

 

 

The items at hand is in important concept.

 

Some mods may offer more evasion power per percentage than others...but who cares? lol, when you're looking to socket socketables, you can only work with what you're offered or what drops.

 

Period.

 

While using the calculator, I simply buy everything with high numbers or interesting mixes from all the cth mods offered and then enjoy my time plunkin them into my ring sockets and seeing what give a better CTH against any particular monster I choose. I agree it's interesting to try and figure out how the mods "place" against one another...but ultimately we can only work with what's offered or dropped...and the most important thing is knowing what gives the highest chance to hit with our build in full swing, with all armor and buffs on.

 

As we continue while shopping along progressing levels while using the calculator, we soon acquire a "feel" of the kind of cth mods to buy, from all of the offerings and are soon able to pick out things that our build needs to get the largest increase in cth benefits.

 

Ascaron has given us a treat with this. No need anymore for going out and doing test runs over and over trying to ascertain whether or not something has given me a better chance to hit anymore. With absolute values so easily obtained from the tool, guesswork and long testing is a thing of the past.

 

 

gogo

[Spyrus 0]

The modifier that will suit us most is common for all mobs categories

(at least the last 10 opponents in the special scenario they are all of different race)?

Or let me rephrase it, should I kill 100 enemies and look 10 times the last 10 opponents,

write down what works to decided or the last enemy killed is enough all the times ?

Sorry, if it has been cleared that out

[gogoblender 3,068]

The way I use the calculator is by simpling running through the area I'm mostly leveling up in. I then go back to the island and then with my stack of CTH rings start to play out "battles" against the last few enemies I've battled. I usually start with Champs and see if I can get to about 125 % CTH against them and then see if the same cth against champs works against lower enemies in the area.

 

It usually does.

 

 

gogo

[Spyrus 0]

So, the same one modifier does you good for any kind of enemy and is only relevant to your build which will that modifier be

[gogoblender 3,068]

Actually, I couldn't tell you whether any one modifier is better than any other modifier all the time against all enemies.

 

It's always good to find your "range" of enemies you're playing against. Then use the calculator to take things on and off your build to see what gives you better cth against whatever you are fighting mostly.

 

I dont' even bother to find out what is "best" cth anymore overall in the game. It doesn't exist. What does exist though is what your character "needs" at certain times against specific enemies you are fighting.

 

So the calculator may tell you one day, for example that a specific type of evade gives you more cth...and on another day, after you had changed your armor, the calculator could tell you that now a ring with a combo of the other anti evasion combined with percentage to attack could give you a higher cth.

 

Just keep using it as a way of knowing how you're doing generally and your build will increase it's cth properly.

 

gogo

[gogoblender 3,068]

Hundreds of new players here... bumping this

 

 

gogo

[Manzikeen 0]

Useful information indeed, I was caught in the trap of looking at Attack Value only our of habit from the old days of Sacred. Now I know why raising my attack value hasn't been enough. Great stuff!

[gogoblender 3,068]

ha, lol...I think that was the main reason I wrote that up... boy did my game ever take a huge leap forward when I finally began using the calculator religiously.

 

I gotta say...there are times when I so want to keep using something cuz of it's puported stats or loox... but the calc is god. If a new item or jewelry holds sway and offers significant advantage over my last ten enemies... out with the old, in with the new!

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,522]

Just found this thread. That is more or less what I was doing when I decided against a weapon lore for my magic coup hardcore elf. Balancing the hit chance against champs to around 100% and using troll tooth with alchemy on bosses for the extra hit chance. Calculations were showing that a weapon skill gave just the difference in hit chance between a champion and a boss, sometimes even less.

This may be different for other classes, but it was so for a melee elf with no buff/CA affecting attack value.

So melee elf with thain's axe on mobs , shurikens with x% life leech at bosses, and bows versus goblins for fun. Playing hardcore doublehits from a weapon mastery are a risc if they get reflected together with criticals. I think my alchemy elf is best for my play style: better save than sorry in hard core. And bargaining and senses toi equip my other characters.

[chattius 2,522]

Think I will add a bit more tho this thread next months:

To have this calculator working for weapon Combat Art's and not only normal attacks, we will have to know of the hidden weapon Combat Art modifiers. Then this hidden modifiers will have to be added via rings.

Several Combat Art's have a base attack value which scales with level. So now with RpH we can reach high levels and with this a high base attack value. I got a difference of up to 70% between normal attacks and magic coup hit chance. At niob and high alchemy a 1000% attack value push from a trophy and having a high base attack value from a Combat Art is often enough to reach 100% CtH versus a boss.

[essjayehm 58]

Think I will add a bit more tho this thread next months:

To have this calculator working for weapon Combat Art's and not only normal attacks, we will have to know of the hidden weapon Combat Art modifiers. Then this hidden modifiers will have to be added via rings.

Several Combat Art's have a base attack value which scales with level. So now with RpH we can reach high levels and with this a high base attack value. I got a difference of up to 70% between normal attacks and magic coup hit chance. At niob and high alchemy a 1000% attack value push from a trophy and having a high base attack value from a Combat Art is often enough to reach 100% CtH versus a boss.

 

I am unsure exactly where the CtH value in the calculator comes from.... does it include the Combat Art attack value bonus, if a Combat Art was exclusivley used against the mob? Does it calculate by the blow that killed the enemy? Is it only calculating based on left clicks?

 

My current Dryad has an average of (showing in the calculator) 35-50% hitchance vs. non-bosses, but with Ravaged Impact at level 40-ish, I have realized that she is hitting a lot more frequently than that, but my experience will vary a lot from PC! I really haven't tested it yet, as my current build will get Concentration mastery soon and add Sinster Predator buff for +criticals and COCE in the melee build. THEN I was going to start figuring out the calculator. Maybe you will have the answers before I get home this weekend and try for myself!

 

Will keep this thread alive for a while, yet!

[Dragon Brother 619]

The cth shown is for normal melee (left click) attacks. Combat arts hit chance/any bonuses they have are hidden from our view.

[essjayehm 58]

Heh... figured this whole thing out last night... well maybe not everything, but what was fustrating me right to lalalollipopland has been solved:

 

Changing rings and amulets does not affect the CtH calculator, at least for OCE and COCE modifiers. When they're on weapons or armour, the calculator works fine for these mods, but not with changing jewellery!

 

This is on console, of course, so I'm wondering about PC?

[Dragon Brother 619]

They work fine on the pc if you switch amulets/rings around.

[essjayehm 58]

They work fine on the pc if you switch amulets/rings around.

 

And last night, when I added Sinister Predator buff to my toon, the Marked Shot mod is not reflected in the calculator either <sigh>.

 

But now I have seen spells.txt and I may be able to figure out the CtH bonuses we get from Combat Art's! Maybe

Edited April 22, 2010 by essjayehm

[cloudblade70 0]

They work fine on the pc if you switch amulets/rings around.

 

And last night, when I added Sinister Predator buff to my toon, the Marked Shot mod is not reflected in the calculator either <sigh>.

 

But now I have seen spells.txt and I may be able to figure out the CtH bonuses we get from Combat Art's! Maybe

 

The Marked Shot buff created a noticeable increase in me for the CtH values. Did you make sure to recast Sinister Predator after you added the mod?

[essjayehm 58]

They work fine on the pc if you switch amulets/rings around.

 

And last night, when I added Sinister Predator buff to my toon, the Marked Shot mod is not reflected in the calculator either <sigh>.

 

But now I have seen spells.txt and I may be able to figure out the CtH bonuses we get from Combat Art's! Maybe

 

The Marked Shot buff created a noticeable increase in me for the CtH values. Did you make sure to recast Sinister Predator after you added the mod?

 

Actually, it's not showing in the CtH calculator! I am not disputing the fact that it works (I feel it does), just that it doesn't affect the calculator when I turn SP on or off.

 

The background on this is that I've taken some responsibility for figuring out what OCE and COCE actually do for helping CtH values. Being on console, I have found that it is very hard to have simple tests that give sensible results (if not exact, at least close to what I was expecting). Rings, Amulets and now this (list of things that don't work on console calculator)... adding to the fact that I only get 3 opponents in my last opponent screen.... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

 

Ok, I feel a bit better after that rant....

[SolomonGrundy 1]

uh, oh - maybe OCE, and COCE only work when they are slotted in weapons on the console...I sure hope not

 

:-(

 

I have an inquisitor wearing a ring that has both, OCE, and COCE and I really hope it is working. Gah. I'll check x360 tonight.

[essjayehm 58]

uh, oh - maybe OCE, and COCE only work when they are slotted in weapons on the console...I sure hope not

 

:-(

 

I have an inquisitor wearing a ring that has both, OCE, and COCE and I really hope it is working. Gah. I'll check x360 tonight.

 

I am pretty sure they are working in-game.... Just the calculator does not display differences when you equip or unequip a ring/ammy with those mods. Or a Combat Art/buff with one of those mods.

 

I like those rings with both OCE and COCE. I used to have 20 or 30 of them (at various levels/difficulties, etc) when I was trying to test them. Now at least I know more about how the calculator works on console.

 

Definitely, OCE and/or COCE from weaps and armour are reflected in the calculator, that I tested last night. So I'll have to find some equip. with slots that don't affect CtH in other ways to re-start testing.