Best place to level? (Console)

[lujate 576]

I have a lot of leveling to do, and so I have been reading about the best places to do it. Unfortunately, I imagine that most of those discussions are talking about the PC version, and we all know that the console version has its own quirks. For this reason, I decided to test various leveling places and see which gives the most XP. I just started this, but I want to share it in case I have some grave errors in my plan.

 

All tests are conducted in Free World/Niob/Offline with a level 131-132 DW Seraphim. Each run was done on a separate game. I set a timer for 30 minutes and killed as many monsters as possible before the buzzer. The biggest flaw I see is that I had no way to control for enemy resistances/weaknesses. I was using my XP suit, and changing out pieces would affect the XP bonus (probably more so than the resistances/weaknesses). I know the drops will be varying degrees on pathetic, but I decided that I should at least track them. The best way I could come up with to do that, is to simply add up the number of stars for all the items collected.

 

Here are the runs I am testing:

1. Jungle Trail (from Archaeologists camp to Kral's pyramid and then circle back)
   
2. Orc Cave
   
3. SE Swamp
   

 

I have only had a chance to run each set once, but here is what I have so far:

1. 4,110,944XP & 21 stars
   
2. 4,204,896XP & 69 stars
   
3. 4,296,480XP & 64 stars
   

[lelopexa 0]

I'll try these. I generally level up so slowly,and I'm sick of it.I rely on quests mostly but I shall try those regions.

[Elwin 2]

South of entruag there is a big battle against trolls and orcs and there are huge armies there, also nice spot for expierience ( my favorite). Maybe worth a try and test ;p

Edited January 8, 2011 by Elwin

[lujate 576]

I'll try these. I generally level up so slowly,and I'm sick of it.I rely on quests mostly but I shall try those regions.

Good luck, just be careful. I consider Kral a push-over but not everyone would agree (and dying is just too costly).

 

South of entruag there is a big battle against trolls and orcs and there are huge armies there, also nice spot for expierience ( my favorite). Maybe worth a try and test ;p

Is that north or south of the river?

[Elwin 2]

when u are at entruag portal cross the bridge and go south along the shore

[Andrasael 4]

Orc territories or at the swamps.And a road to nimanull at the mountains after beating the coloss.

[Mystix123 60]

If you're looking for the highest experience gain per minute, then the Orc Cave is your best choice (assuming you can kill them quickly enough).

I've run experience/minute tests between the Orc Cave, Swamp and Turtle Island (near Poison Lord), and came out to this conclusion.

 

Due to the fact that you can infinitely spawn the Orc Cave (so there's no need to reload the Free World game or leave the area in general) and there's little time needed to travel between sets of mobs (especially if you can clear the cave in 15 seconds or less), the experience/minute is actually highest from the Orc Cave.

The only thing which may slow you down a little bit is if you tend to keep too much of the loot (forcing you to leave, sell the items and come back). If you only keep what you think will be useful to you (and maybe Set Items/Uniques) and scrap everything else (you'll get pretty quick at it with practice) then you can keep on farming the Orc Cave almost non-stop for hours.

 

The only downside to the Orc Cave is that there's absolutely no variety (and variety isn't encouraged when you're trying to kill everything asap), which can get a little boring after a while.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Mystix123

[lujate 576]

Mystix123, you bring up a couple of good points.

 

Since Kral can only be killed once, that puts the Jungle run at a disadvantage. As for the Swamp, do you think you can actually depopulate it? The Orc Cave, of course, will last until the player botches it up.

 

All of the items that are dropped in the Orc Cave are also a problem. I have had to stop the clock at least twice every time to scrap the junk that was filling my inventory. Maybe I should leave the clock running to give a more accurate test. That would slow down leveling, but I for one would hate to loose that highly coveted set piece because my inventory was full of worthless garbage.

[Mystix123 60]

Depopulation isn't quite the issue that I was looking at with the Swamp, though I've noticed that I can run short of mobs when I'm using my Caster Seraphim (Flaring Nova to wipe out hordes, so I have to travel for a bit to find another decent group). I use the Swamp instead of the Orc Cave with my Caster since I can't clear the Orc Cave quickly enough, so I believe the Swamp leads to higher experience/minute in that case.

However, with a DW Seraphim (which is what I tested with and that you're using), the Orc Cave provides a constant stream of champion type mobs. This will lead to a higher experience/minute, assuming you can clear the Orc Cave quickly enough. If you take over 15 seconds per run however, then the Swamp may actually be better (I've been using 15 seconds as a landmark, it may actually be a little longer, but I know it works with the 15 second goal). However, this requirement isn't at all difficult to achieve, especially with a DW Seraphim.

 

The items weren't actually an issue in my tests (though it was accounted for in my tests, as well as load time), but I've run the Orc Cave so many times that it takes less than 30 seconds to clear my inventory of junk. This is probably an abnormal speed, but with practice, the Orc Cave continues to increase it's lead in the experience/minute (as you take less time to clear out inventory and clear out the cave in less than 15 seconds...if you can kill 1-2 of the Orcs before they aggro you, you're definitely getting a higher experience/minute).

 

My method for clearing out the inventory: Simply clear out everything that you don't want to keep (items which are not useful to equip, as well as things which aren't set items/uniques). Use books immediately, toss damage converters, but keep the trophies to sell (takes too much time to scrap those).

I've reached 6 hours without running out of space using this method (then I couldn't take anymore...I don't think I've done more than an hour run since...lol).

 

Now that I've typed all of that out, it may be that there's a requirement of practice in this also. The Orc Cave may start off with a slight disadvantage (as shown by your numbers), but I'm pretty sure that'll change with practice.

I'm going to run new tests tonight (since this is a worthy investigation to prioritize) and see what I come up with.

 

Edit: Question for you. When did you level from 131 to 132? Remember that each kill will be worth more experience at 132 than they would be at 131, which can skew your numbers.

Edited January 8, 2011 by Mystix123

[lujate 576]

The Orc Cave in 15 seconds? I can say with near absolute certainty that I cannot do that. This is still my first character, and I picked most of my skill using nothing more than the in-game descriptions, so the build is less than ideal (mostly my damage output). Also, I have none of the flashy gear that comes from shopping. I will check my time when I am in the Orc Cave next (right now, I am heading back to the swamp).

 

Here are the averages so far:

Jungle* 4.19 million XP 32 stars

Orc Cave 4.18 million XP 76 stars

Swamp 4.17 million XP 57 stars

 

* - Includes Kral

[Mystix123 60]

Here are some quick test stats.

10 minutes per run. Level 81 DW Seraphim for the Orc Cave, came really close to level 82, so I took level 82 and then went to the Swamp, giving the Swamp an advantage in experience/kill.

This was on Gold, Free World, Offline.

No experience+ equipment, but using mentor potions.

 

Level 81, Orc Cave - 912352 experience.

Level 82, SE Swamp - 829104 experience.

 

Qualitative notes:

- Despite the experience/kill advantage for SE Swamp, Orc Cave was more efficient.

- Found more junk items in SE Swamp, though I cleared out the inventory less than I did with the Orc Cave, using the same stipulations.

- Ended up with 1 period in the SE Swamp where there were few enemies around (which may contribute to the lower experience overall as it was a few seconds of slow killing). However, this is an advantage to the Orc Cave: A constant stream without having to risk there not being constant hordes.

 

So that's a quick results summary. I'm going to have to set up another test with my Caster Seraphim (expecting results showing the opposite).

 

Edit: Guess it wasn't a double post. (lol)

Edited January 8, 2011 by Mystix123

[lelopexa 0]

Yesterday, when I was in the swamps I found 4 three-star weapons in about 30 minutes.. I've been using mentor potions

Edited January 9, 2011 by lelopexa

[lujate 576]

My best time for the Orc Cave was 16 seconds, but I was averaging about 20 (longer if one of the spiders caught my initial AW/SH combo or if I had to chase down the last orc).

 

Well, like most things Sacred, it comes down to the build. Here are the results for my current build:

 

Experience:

SE Swamp 4,267,040 -0%

Jungle* 4,190,708 -2%

Orc Cave 4,184,456 -2%

Jungle@ 4,087,708 -4%

 

*-with Kral

@-without Kral

 

Drops:

Orc Cave 77 stars -00%

Swamp 62 stars -19%

Jungle 32 stars -59%

 

 

Next week I am going to check out those other places people suggested.

 

 

Edit:

On a personal note, I completed Endijian's set during my last session in the Orc Cave.

Edited January 9, 2011 by lujate

[Mystix123 60]

Congrats on the drops both Lelopexa and Lujate.

 

Yep Lujate, I can see where the Orc Cave isn't doing as well for you. My average time in the Orc Cave is just over 13 seconds, but I've done a few runs in 10-11 seconds (when the Orcs come to me on the entry bridge, so I can kill them all quickly and exit asap).

 

I don't think the Orc Cave comes down to build (since we're using the same DW Seraphim), but rather tactic. I find using only Pelting Strikes (no combos, since Pelting Strikes will automatically switch targets, whereas SH/PS may break if there isn't something in range) and learning how to manipulate where the Orcs will move helps decrease the amount of time spent in there.

 

SE Swamp would probably be better if you can't clear out the Orc Cave quickly enough. I attempted to do the tests with my Caster, but Orc Cave took far too long to even make it comparable, so I know the SE Swamp will work better for that build.

I have to admit though, for being at 20 seconds on average, the 2% difference is pretty small. You could probably close that gap fairly easily.

 

Edit: That 2% difference made me think about something.

Would you happen to have your actual numbers from each run? I'm assuming each run was timed for 30 minutes. I've constructed numbers based on your presented averages each time and the differences could all be caused by chance. This is also suggested by the three areas continuously switching places in the ranking each time you post averages.

I'd rather have your actual numbers before running an analysis though.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Mystix123

[lujate 576]

I have Divine Protection and Dashing Alacrity chain-castable and keep them up constantly. As soon as I see the orcs, I fire my Archangel's Wrath/Soul Hammer combo. This causes her to shoot the AR and run forward to deliver the SH. This is a relatively new addition, but seemed to improve my clear time. After closing with the orcs, it is straight Pelting Strikes until they are dead.

 

XP:

Jungle

4110944

4118208

4350112

4183568

 

Orc Cave

4204896

4152896

4200256

4179776

 

Swamp

4296480

*

4301280

4203360

 

*-I botched this test but did not realize it until it was too late to re-do, so I just averaged the remaining tests.

[Mystix123 60]

Is the AW/SH combo killing one of them before they can strike back?

Ideally, if you're going to be using strong, one-hit CAs, each CA should kill an Orc each. It's a waste if AW leaves one Orc with 10% of it's health left while SH could have killed it outright, allowing you to move on to the next Orc quicker.

 

If the spiders are not on the bridge, I run in and just use PS right away. Usually one Orc is dead by the time they swing their sword (to signal that they've found someone to attack) and start running towards me. Sometimes a 2nd Orc is dead before they reach me (if I can score enough critical hits, otherwise the 2nd one dies on the 1st hit of the following PS).

 

As for the numbers: Much thanks.

As they stand, there is no difference between the three as a whole (p = 0.341). I tried to see if there was a difference between sets of numbers (Jungle vs. Orc Cave, Orc Cave vs. Swamp, Jungle vs. Swamp), but came up with the same results. The differences seem like chance occurrences thus far.

However, this can change with a larger sample, so I'd encourage that you continue to run more tests and post. I can continue to analyze everything until something is found.

 

This is definitely something that a Wiki page can be made on, but I'd like to have significant differences for your tests first.

I already have significant numbers for the Orc Cave over the other two areas (because of the huge gap between them), but on the condition that you can clear out the Orc Cave quickly enough.

[dreeft 9]

Here are some quick test stats.

10 minutes per run.

 

Level 81, Orc Cave - 912352 experience.

Level 82, SE Swamp - 829104 experience.

You were getting close to 1 million XP in 10mins?

[lujate 576]

Mystic123,

 

Back when I used the AW/SH combo frequently, its purpose was as a one-two punch to take down champions. Unfortunately, it no longer has that kind of power. I pumped about 20 runes into it, but it still could only do about 50% damage to the orc champions. For that reason, I will be changing my tactics slightly. I will continue to use this combo as an opening move on mobs, but with champions I will hit them with Pelting Strikes first and use the combo as a finisher. That will bring the deathblow bonus of Soul Hammer into play. Using this method, I can take down all four orcs with 3 PS and 1 combo.

 

My only statistics class was years ago, but I believe that you are saying that my results are not statistically significant. If so, I am not surprised considering I only have three complete rows of data. I still have 64 levels and two set pieces to go, so I have lots of more leveling to do. I will keep doing these runs and post the data periodically. Just to add a wrinkle to all of this, when I was testing my combo in the Orc Cave, I was getting 1k less XP than before (what is the max enemy level in Nor Plat?).

 

 

I agree this would make a great wiki page, "if" we can come up with definitive results. I am just afraid that there are too many variables to come up with anything better than suggested spots with a YMMV disclaimer.

[essjayehm 58]

Here are some quick test stats.

10 minutes per run.

 

Level 81, Orc Cave - 912352 experience.

Level 82, SE Swamp - 829104 experience.

You were getting close to 1 million XP in 10mins?

Unsure if this is the answer, but XP from gear is added to mentor potions on console, so I think these are reasonable numbers... at those levels. They are pretty high, though!

 

After a lot of hrm-ing and heh-ing, I really do not have a lot to add to this conversation except what I first thought when I read the OP - depends on what area you feel like doing, they are generally the same if you disount the "randomness" - ie higher/lower population seeds for the Jungle/Swamp areas, getting frozen entering/exiting the orc cave, yada yada. Mystix already mentioned the important factor - toon type. Strict melee will do better in Orc cave, but Area of Effect builds will out-pace melee in the great outdoors.

[Mystix123 60]

You were getting close to 1 million XP in 10mins?

Correct. I also wasn't using experience+ gear (just the mentor potions alone), so that could have been considerably higher, assuming the speed of the kills can be maintained (which is why I opted for using my normal gear).

 

It was 8000-someodd experience per kill. Let's call it 8000 (which is lower than what I was getting).

4 Orcs at 8000 each leads to 32,000 experience per run, plus whatever spiders show up (but let's ignore those for now).

I can get 4 runs in per minute (let's round to a minute, give or take normally). 4 * 32000 = 128,000.

 

All I needed was roughly 7 cycles (sets of 4 runs, so 28 runs total) to get the number that I had, which isn't difficult within 10 minutes.

Just have to remember that each run can't take more than 15 seconds. It's quite the frantic experience (which is why I don't do it for prolonged periods of time).

 

My only statistics class was years ago, but I believe that you are saying that my results are not statistically significant.

Correct. However, with a larger sample, I'd predict that they will be.

You don't always need a huge sample to get statistical significance sometimes, so it may not be too many more runs that you need. It would be best to have equal sample sizes though.

 

Your question about region level caps should be answered here:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Enemy_Levels

 

I honestly don't think it's that many variables with the way the experiments have been set up. It's a question of which area gives you the most experience in the same amount of time, therefore most other factors are automatically controlled for with a decent sized sample. A normal distribution will arise with a large enough sample size, which removes random variability (assuming that as the level increases, the order in which the samples are collected is changed, due to the skew from the increasing experience/kill values).

If we have statistical significance, that's a sign that the sample size is large enough for an experiment like this.

 

So far, our data is suggesting Orc Cave if you can kill them quickly enough, Jungle or SE Swamp if you can't. It's the Jungle vs. SE Swamp part which really needs to be teased apart.

[lujate 576]

Looking at the Enemy Levels table, the max level should be 197, so I am not sure if that explains the xp drop for my 136 level character. I was experimenting with equipment trying to get my damage output up. I will need to check to make sure my +xp% is still at 79.

 

For short duration leveling, the Swamp and Jungle seem close, but for long duration leveling (without Kral & his 103k xp) it seems to me that the Swamp will probably win.

 

 

essjayehm,

You are correct that there are factors other than the raw numbers. It does not matter how good the xp/drops are if you cannot stand to make a given run. Also, if the game crashes regularly (e.g. Orc Cave), any small advantages will quickly disappear.

[Mystix123 60]

Also, if the game crashes regularly (e.g. Orc Cave), any small advantages will quickly disappear.

This is surprising to me, as I've never seen the game crash while running the Orc Cave...and I've run it a lot.

Is this frequent for others, and is this the 360 version or PS3 version? Under what condition does this occur (when exiting, when entering, in the middle of the fight)?

 

Actually, both times the game has crashed for me were against the Swirling Mist of Miasma during a thunderstorm. The first time, I had 6-7 Radiant Pillars out. The second time, I had stacked Hallowed Restoration to the nth degree. Once I stopped doing those things, I've never had the game crash again.

[lujate 576]

I am on ps3. On gold, I used the Orc Cave exclusively until it locked up on me a number of times and I lost a lot of xp. I think it locked up during combat.

 

More to follow...

[lujate 576]

I am back.

 

It seemed to lock up more frequently in the Orc Cave than any other place. As soon as you lose a few hours of leveling, you start looking for other options. It has not done it during my testing, but they have all been short durations.

Edited January 10, 2011 by lujate

[Mystix123 60]

I am back.

 

It seemed to lock up more frequently in the Orc Cave than any other place. As soon as you lose a few hours of leveling, you start looking for other options. It has not done it during my testing, but they have all been short durations.

Welcome back!

 

That's interesting.

- Are you using the North American version, or the European version?

- How long were you playing for before it froze (roughly if you can't remember exactly)?

- Were you doing anything which could strain the system (such as my use of 6-7 Radiant Pillars against the Swirling Mist of Miasma)?

I'm finding general cases of freezing (areas vary if specified, but a lot more complaints about the 360 version than the PS3 version), so there might be others experiencing it.

 

If it's continuously freezing, then SE Swamp would probably be your best choice, no matter your kill speed.