SLD

Don't worry, you are still smarter than the cm patch team. After all the original game did show flat values for the weapon skills. You at least tried to figure out how the calculations worked, while the cm patch team obviously did not. But without even looking they were bold enough to edit in that "%" symbol Ok, there were some mitigating circumstances... the "combat discipline" skill showed flat values originally and they fixed that to the actual "%" and while they were at it they saw the flat values on skills like "sword weapons" and thought... But they could have tested what we just did and chose not to. That just seems not very smart... Well in the end it was a minor change and the cm patch certainly contains so many far more important changes that such tiny slip ups here and there could never ruin the whole. They certainly deserve our After all they "improved" what was originally created by an entire full time development studio... oh and your idea that speedlore might be multiplicative is also not that far fetched because the description on the wiki page sounds like it is. Again some evil misleading info there. Well I just went to the wiki and corrected that evil misleading info. At least noone else will fall into that trap now.

from playing a mod that removes the xp penalty?(which EE is not) This is Sacred 2, there is nothing that prevents boredom especially at those high levels. And all builds are equally affected by it. And for the last 25-50 levels afaik the correct answer was running specific questsas quests aren't affected by the penalties. So even more boredom to come. I searched the thread for all arguments towards alchemy. The only one relevant to levelling was ~"mentor potions last longer". My current non alchemy bfg sera has been running constant 100% uptime mentors for an eternity now. She finds them faster than she can use them. So at least under CM Patch rules this point is irrelevant. Alchemy does nothing. And no matter how much xp you put on your gear (my example char is 90 without any bonus) it will always get boring, you might just increase the level at which that happens a little.

how exactly do you make this movie magic happen? You show so much nice sacred 2 gameplay and Gogo has already asked me to do the same, so I'd love to hear how this is actually done. Maybe it's easier than I thought

No, spectral hand is not a spell, so no ancient magic there. The rest does apply though. Also, you can't use two skills at the same time so when shooting with frenzied rampage, spectral hand is already disqualified because of that. Well you wouldn't necessarily have to "switch weapons" for them but I fully agree with the time wasted part. Why use other CA's when the one you already have is perfect. I'll never understand that combo thought. Why would you want to use 2 skills when could just use the better one twice? Especially in the case of your ranged sw without the Aspect focus for demonic blow, it's just such an odd idea to try and integrate that CA. Sadly I don't know what messes up your combo mechanically making some part not trigger. On a technical level I would want to understand this problem, but from a gameplay perspective, I have very rarely used combos with more than one skill in them at all. You're just always better off using the same skill over and over.

Oh interesting... I guess dis arm is one of yours?

So what is your point here? I already told you that sword lore is a flat bonus not a percentage no matter what is written on it's bs tooltip. Surprisingly, if you use the +9 attack value it supposedly gives (according to the wiki) your math checks out perfectly. 30+9 =39 39+8=47 hmm maybe EE did remove the base attack value(not linked to attributes), but that's fine. So 592 +45 = 637 matches perfectly what I explained... So I'd expect (592+66)*1.804=1187.032 well that is quite a bit away from your 1195 but still relatively close. no, you just refuse to listen to me... Sword lore adds a flat value. Speed lore is a percentage that adds with other percentage sources. And if you want to know where the few points (8 on your lvl 112 char) are going, you'll have to wait for Maneus.

Why do you say slow levelling? Levelling depends on how fast you kill stuff and how much +xp bonus you equip. The second is always a choice, the first is limited by multiple factors: 1. Kill speed 2. Move speed (toward the next thing to kill) 3. Enemy density (how far you need to move before killing again) Number 3 can basically only be affected by the chosen mods. Number 2 has limits in basegame and cm patch so the difference between characters is very small here. In EE the cap is increased but my tests in D2F where the same increased cap applies showed significant bugs with it meaning you still can't run super fast. So I wouldn't consider movespeed a metric to look at either. And that leaves Number 1 the killspeed. Now there is some difference between ranged and melee builds because melee needs to get in closer etc. on the other hand ranged can "miss" with projectile(anything but blowpipe), but beyond that it all feels the same. In Sacred 2 you can now either walk past enemies, pull them together and fight them as a group or you can fight enemies as you encounter them. Method number one leads to lots of running followed by lots of killing, while method number 2 splits it out evenly with shorter bursts of running and killing. The second method is usually faster because you run faster than the enemies you would want to grup up. So if the enemies being grouped doesn't give an advantage of itself like for clustering maelstrom than go method 2 and just beat up everything you find immediatly. Beyond that killspeed is just a question of how much damage you do per time. A ranged shadow warrior usually doesn't do very high damage to normal enemies, where his %leech doesn't matter that much. But in the end he'll shredder bosses in seconds and he will always kill normal stuff faster than bosses. A bfg sera would technically be a better choice for killing normal stuff, because the bfg does sick amounts of normal damage. But in the end, most builds will reach a point where higher killspeed would be reached by the one with the faster/ more efficient animations etc... It won't matter however as all characters will be bottlenecked by the "movespeed" and "enemy density" problems. "Killing" is just the least of your time spent in game, a small portion that somehow can be scaled the most. There is no boss in this game that can be reached faster than you can kill it.(Except maybe the mist as it can't be properly attacked ) And normal enemies barely slow down your steady pace through the game world. Skellies are even slower than the enemies. Summons take so much time acquiring targets, that even if they oneshotted everything they would be crap. I would never use summons in Sacred 2, at least not for their combat abilities. Stuff like the DM's Familiar or protector can have useful buff effects after all, but the summon itself is always useless.

You should remember that I am the one who couldn't even open ric's videos. Now I'm supposed to create videos? Of course I want you to see what gameplay looks like on my end, as we always seem to live in different worlds here on the forums, but sadly I don't think I can do this stuff. That's also why I hoped the multiplayer Idea might work out at some point so I could show you what it looks like. I could maybe upload the save files of this Sera at some point. But that would only tell half the story I guess.

My summoning mirror from over there wasn't even capable of summoning flix, so I doubt it would summon a rational being like spock. I suggest you just live long and prosper enough to buy a pc for your Sacred 2 gaming.

Don't forget uploading the boar from befoar well everything I ever built led to boredom so don't look at me for that one A larger crowd only increases killspeed for area damage builds. So for this build it's definitely one enemy after another, shoot and move style that would be fastest. The only way to scale this is to add more enemies to the game like via the superspawn module that EE already comes with. THe challenge mode should also get more enemies attention with them having increased aggro range and the map reveal that comes with it etc. So back when I played EE I had both of those modules on.

No, the "%" was originally added in the cm patch, by people who had no clue that it is a flat value. Sword lore has always been a flat value. EE doesn't change that. EE should also change nothing else about attack values. The 9 vs 10 question, I don't know whether the wiki is wrong there. It might even be more correct as sometimes these skill values are a bit off from the real value due to some rounding in the calculation that generates them. No there is not. And well, my values were all close enough to be "unconfused". Your values are all very small so that the same absolute amount of close enough gives a far larger amount of relative difference. I still suggest you test it with a higher level character where you can get more accurate results.

you say 51*1.26=64.26 would result in 64 with a +5% ring you'd have 51*1.31=66.81 results in 67 And going back on the 5% ring but choosing sword lore +10 you somehow get 85? If that were eith the 5% ring it would make sense, giving (54+10)*1.31=83.84 a bit too short, but if you were right with multiplying speed lore with it you'd instead get 64*1.26*1.05=84.672 close enough for rounding again. in that scenario adding another 5% ring would give 64*1.26*1.1=88.704 again close enough for some rounding bs. But none of this makes sense at all. Speed Lore shouldn't be multiplicative and though sword lore is a flat value the way I just used it in my calculations, level 1 sword lore according to the wiki only gives 9 attack value. This leaves us with a lot bigger mess than I originally thought and the guy who's gonna figure it out is @Maneus. Sadly he said he just went on a trip with the ancarian airlines so I have no clue when he might return. If you want to solve it yourself my best guess would be: Get bigger numbers. My BFG Sera as example: 289 str giving 231 AR 315 dex giving 94 AR but her base says 398 which is somehow 398-325=74 too high. It's not her exact level but I'd guess she gets some base as per her creature values... +AR% 58.4% from BFG gun 177.8% from BFG buff 179 ramged lore giving 259 AR So expected would be (398+259)*(1+1,778+0,584)= 657*3.362= 2208.834 ingame it says 2206 close enough taking speed lore(lvl9) supposedly +29% turns those 2206 into 2395. while 657*(3.362+029)= 2399.364 would be "close enough" a multiplicative version would be far off. Nothing here seems really clean but at this point I'd assume speed lore and other +% sources add up and so do the flat values and than the two things are multiplied by each other. If you want the rounding details you'll probably have to wait for maneus. Oh and I tested on CM-Patch160 just in case that calculation was touched by a mod. Hope I could help

How can someone who knows so much about game mechanics end up in these circumstances? Using summons and spells... Sure. Have a nice trip! Bring a skill and attribute point with you when you return!

Thank you, chattius!

Oh no, now Maneus is faster than me, I think I'm about to lose my job and he's got the formula already as well? I'm worried now... I don't think there is any instance in the game where that defensive stance would be better than attacking or moving. Except of course, when you are afk farming survival bonus on a level 1 character that isn't tanky enough to outregen a wolf without that extra defense

You having many arms would have been so much more interesting.

Wow, that guy changes 4 different wiki pages in the same minute. How many arms does that guy have? @alfchaval: Thank you for doing the hard work, that almost noone ever knows about.

Time for another update on my BFG Sera progress: Part 1: Rules and Start all the way till lvl51 at the start of silver swamp https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146269 Part2: Rest of silver all the way till lvl70 pre gold octagolamus https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146342 Part3: More of gold all the way till lvl 86 at the start of gold swamp https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/4/#comment-7146440 And now comes part 4: Reached LvL 88, finished the gold campaign at around 53 hours in total. Kept tech focus and toughness at character level, the rest as before. Have a bunch of unspent skillpoints waiting to be put somewhere. Attributes are still all in Stamina. Physícal mitigation is at 100%+ now. The growing toughness almost got me there already but now with the platinum runes I could obviously reach it and even free 2 sockets. Filled the sockets with dot reduction amulets. I ate 200 runes of dashing alacrity because I don't know what to do with them anymore Technically my hardcore endavour was threatened once in all of this. That nasty Inquisitor would reflect my OP bfg damage but I didn't have enough hitchance on the leech throwing star either, so in the end that guy lasted 3 divine protections and a lot of potions in between Did the platinum airlines. I guess I'll follow my previous strategy, kill a few kobolds and then move the campaign to the orc cave next. We'll see... Edit: Did feed the poor. Still lvl88. Edit2: Lvl 90 and at the orc cave now, just as planned before. Edit3: Lvl 95 now, still orc caveing along.

Mechanically this just cannot be true. The bow gets more hits via pierce meaning the larger the pack the more hits it gets. The bow scales with packsize the blow pipe does not. That sounds like far too many. If you scale some mf, you'd be swimming in them in no time. I mean you get 4 guardians and one egg per run, not sure if the egg is allowed to drop legendaries so we ignore that one. I don't know how long it takes to do a guardian run, but I'm sure 5 mins from the monolith down and killing them should be an acceptable time, so you'd be doing 12 runs per hour... That would give you a legendary around once every 2 hours... But then you add some mild 500% mf and you'd find one every 20 minutes? That would be quite common I think... And you can have far more mf than that... To beat the "german efficiency"you'd need a team of at least 4 allies. The efficient german would also tell you that for a blow pipe build you definitely picked the wrong gold mod on sinister predator. The other one would have given you free -%ranged reflect

Because the xp mechanics are really bad for group play, I basucally never played in groups. But why would you try to gather turtles when you have: It would be far faster to just shoot the turtles as you go. Also against a large pack of enemies you wouldn't use a blowgun or a throwing star. You'd use a bow to utilize pierce.

The moment when you get swarmed by turtles you are either a slug or really didn't pay any attention... Getting swarmed by some of the slowest enemies in the game sounds amusing... especially on a character that has a teleport skill... But I'm sorry, I don't see anything on that picture other than one turtle, one player and everything important cut out...

It's certainly not a bad mod for trying this. I have no clue how they make it work on mac. I don't think EE itself changes anything deep, so nothing on the executable etc. But I wouldn't be so sure about the CM-PAtch and that would be required for EE. If you can't find any evidence that someone plays mods on mac that way, I wouldn't bet on it. I also wouldn't count on the multiplayer stuff working with a mac, though again I have no clue on how a mac works... It's just that from the looks of it, should any problems arise down the road, there's noone here who could you.

They can be thrown further than the enemy could notice you, but only with basic attacks... But even with combat arts their range is good enough. Before my current BFG Sera run I played a throwing star SW in the Addendum. Worked out nicely all the way to platinum lvl110+ Guardians are so slow, they'll die before they reach you. Well there's the "-%ranged reflect mod" for that. And also, how do you get "swarmed" by turtles?!

Are you sure this works with the mods you want to play...

Then EE is basically a nerf, as noemally all the throwing stars are basically thrown in one animation, more like EE's mounted energy staff.