What is a Cookie Cutter Build?

[gogoblender 3,070]

Hey guys!

 

Forgive my ignorance, I keep seeing this word thrown around on other forums, and still havn`t figured out what it means. So far Ive managed to make some conjecture that it concerns the relationship between the user of the word and their perception of the value of a build.

 

As far as I can see, `cookie-`cutters`are popular builds, hence very successful, is this correct?

 

They would hence have great value to new players, and even help a new published game have new player appeal because there are builds that can be built out of the box, decrease a frustrating learning curve, build confidence, and increase the player base and thereby increase the number of new `cutting-edge`builds that are produced because of gaming mechanics learned, mastered, shared and then improved upon.

 

Is this what is meant, and, or implied?

 

Or am I missing something here ?

 

Thanks

 

 

gogo

[shanefor 0]

Good Morning,

I always understood it to mean that everyone had the same build for a specific class. You take a cookie cutter and make an exact duplicate cookie.

[Neku 0]

Cookie cutters are overpowered builds.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Neku

[Ryanrocker 200]

Yup, gogo they're builds that are super-powered and very easy to play, which also makes them very boring after a while. The BFG seraphim is a perfect example. She can one shot anything, but this does not give you the same satisfaction of victory, as say stuggling hard and then coming out victorious.

[Dobri 55]

I thought cookie-cutter builds are the ones that utilize level 1 CAs boosted by +CA items, hence the initial skill is only good enough to "cut a cookie", but in the end, the char becomes really, really powerful through its items

 

Otherwise... this is a cookie cutter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookie_cutter

 

or

 

"Cookie cutter," when used as an adjective, is defined as a "lack of originality or distinction" [1], a reference to the uniformity that results from the use of a cookie cutter.

 

EDIT: I thought the Glass Cannon is the overpowered build (with somewhat low defense).

 

EDIT 2: Another explanation using Diablo II terms:

1) No, "Cookie cutter" refers to a build that is often replicated using a specific 'guide'. A Meteorb is a cookie cutter build - there are tons out there, and they all followed the same guide. Much like using a cookie cutter to make tons of cookies the same shape, practically all meteorbs are the same.

 

True, the cookie cutter builds are often very powerful builds (like the meteorb), but that's not why they're called cookie cutter.

 

They're 'unorginal'. They're non-unique. Hammerdins, meteorbs, lightning trappers, etc.

 

2) a cookie cutter character is a character that was made by sum1 then everyone started making them, thus the name cookie-cutter.For instance my light sorc is a cookie cutter because I saw someone with one and it inspired me to make one. its like getting dough and seeing someone else make a cookie out of a cool cookie cutter. so you buy one and use it. its basically a copy of another type of character.

 

3) simply put, a cookie cutter build is basically the popular character design, they are just like lots of other people's character, including items and skills used

for example, paladins usually follow a cookie cutter build with their equipment and skills you can noticed that LOTS of them look identical

 

 

To conclude - I was wrong. So for example, if ten people take soldats' guide and make such Seraphims (because he was very specific in it, including attribute points, skill points and items used), that's cookie cutting

Edited August 6, 2009 by Dobri

[soldats 0]

cookie cutter builds are not required to be overpowered. that can be one proponent of such a build, but I think the meaning refers to the de facto aspect of such a build. by that, I mean looking at an sw, you would probably assume that he would be a melee character. why?

 

just look at the way he's physically built for one thing. another thing is how the game is initially advertised. you don't see ascaron making teaser videos with an sw using a bow. on top of that, the descriptions of said character lend it a melee feel. therefore, a melee sw = cookie cutter. I also think that the more popular a build becomes, the more players that play it, any build can really become a cookie cutter, although this is a bit arbitrary...saying anything can become one.

 

but I think you guys get what I mean. another example: a dryad that uses a bow. why does that smack of cookie cutter? because popular culture teaches us that dryads are SUPPOSED to use bows or at least be ranged. societal norms and everyone wanting to fit in is a broader view of this real life phenomenon.

 

cookie cutter builds also lack creativity as someone said. it can be inferred that they are boring, one dimensional, easy to learn, easy to play with a low sense of satisfaction gained from playing such a character.

 

playing the devil's advocate here, but I also agree with gogo in that since they are so easy to play, they tend to build confidence in the player with a lower learning curve. which is not to say that people who aren't committed to gaming always play cookie cutter builds, but that they tend to. a casual gamer, say. it also requires thinking within the box rather than outside of it

 

in short: cookie cutter = stereotype

 

I will never play or take serious a cookie cutter.

Edited August 6, 2009 by soldats

[Chareos Rantras 0]

Well cookie cutter builds are used to cut cookies in the cookie factory.

 

Now let us apply this to Sacred 2. As a cookie we'll take a goblin. As a cutter we'll take a Shadow Warrior with Dual Wield Swords. Make sure Frenzied Rampage is enabled and

Right-click on the prototype-cookie (here the goblin) and you shall see what they mean with "cookie-cutting".

 

Feel free to repeat this on bigger mobs and or other species of prototype-cookies.

 

 

As an end of this short introduction to cookie-cutting I'll say this: Cookies to Teh People!

 

 

cheers!

Chareos Rantras

 

PS: To the people who tend to take this serious, the above text can be simply ignored.

PS2: I rly need to get out more, this studying is too much

[claudius 104]

a cookie cutter takes the dough and makes cookies the shape of the cutter!

 

There is infinite (seemingly) variety to the shape of cookies in sacred 2...

 

First off: to the expert there are very few options, but to the beginner there are many - Suzuki (he must have played sacred too)

 

but when we actually narrow it down to a build that is posted on the web. That is the cutter. Depending on how specific is the build..

If it just says BFG take ranged and rev tech focus that is not really a cookie cutter. Because there are huge variations on that build.

 

But a guide that is very explicity (an favorite of mine is the Queen of Blades by Antitrust). Now his guide is meant for a player looking for inspiration and direction and a successful build. You can even just use his guide as reading material to learn about the game and then make your own variant or even different build.

 

But if 10 people on multiplayer make exact copies of his build including gear choices etc and it becomes a known build Hammerdin Frenzy Barb Meteor Sorc Fishymancer (and 1000s of people or more on SP) then it is a cookie cutter.

 

 

Some of the most effective builds are cookie cutters because people would not copy them if they sucked. (Well there probably are some crappy builds posted but the most popular probably work or you'd hear about it).

 

Sacred is less prone to cookie cutters because you can still beat niobium with a handful of deaths probably even with divine devotion, speed lore, and not even taking a 10th skill. As long as you strap on 100s of evasion or ultra buffs or some other way to power through the game. Example: SW with concentration DW MC Tactics Weapon constitution armor + no other skills can do it prolly

 

 

 

I use a cookie cutter to make christmas cookies because I am not that into designing my own shape of cookie in that case! But I like to design my own character in a romping easy game (if you play SC ,,,,if you play hardcore then you are figuring out the best builds which if you publish would be the cookie cutters....if they die you don't copy them....Darwin*) like sacred. The funnest class in Titan Quest was the rogue caster hybrids. NOT because they were good but because I enjoyed the action of having a challenge and using a variety of skills. The Warden could be pretty much invulnerable and do 100x damage but it was less fun for me.

 

* although player skill gets somewhat mixed in here.. I mean I can try to follow soldats guide (if he publishes it) but if I have wrong relics and don't know how to use my skills and he couldn't put EVERYTHING about gear choices to hold my hand...well I could probably get killed before getting strong enough to be no potion standing there in front of every boss making a cup of coffee. That is if I followed top build but I have bad knowledge/skill I still can get killed.

Edited August 6, 2009 by claudius

[Katran 0]

Cookie Cutter Build as a term is most commonly used Gogo in card games like Yugioh and Magic. The use being in a reference to deck builds that are common to see being played and are 90% copies of decks that have seen tournament success and usually use common power cards.

Same reference applies to games like Sacred 2. Where the term is used for builds that are common best of guides have been used successfully and use more or less same set up of items same CAs and points spending.

[soldats 0]

* although player skill gets somewhat mixed in here.. I mean I can try to follow soldats guide (if he publishes it) but if I have wrong relics and don't know how to use my skills and he couldn't put EVERYTHING about gear choices to hold my hand...well I could probably get killed before getting strong enough to be no potion standing there in front of every boss making a cup of coffee. That is if I followed top build but I have bad knowledge/skill I still can get killed.

 

I did post my guide.

 

err one of them.

[claudius 104]

cool I always like a good guide, and have enjoyed the videos of cross? seraphim and the boss video of the Ice HE shopper.

[chattius 2,526]

You didn't want to know what I thought what a cookie cutter build was. As someone who avoided english at school, I thought a cookie cutter would be something like a daisy-cutter I know from my army time. A big bomb with a pole on its top so it explodes a metre above ground and mewing all down like daisies. So I thought cookie cutters would be mass Area of Effect

builds too.

 

Daisy-Cutter at wikipedia

 

But when reading about cookie-cutters in wikipedia I saw the difference. Characters who are 100% clones of characters who proved to be good. Like Henry Ford's T-Model, you can have every colour, as long it is black.

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

think I would use the term 'cookie-cutter' in various situations. I know I used it in my 'Archangel' guide. There, I said something about cookie-cutter-style, using BFG's boomstick combined with AW for easy boss killing. The damage on that is so enormous... that it would remove any challenge.

 

In that post it means several things, all of them already mentioned here....

 

There it means:

- easy; not original

- overpowered

- proven to work; used by all

 

So, do we want 'the one' explanation ? Most things are not to be explained a single way... various viewpoints make for multiple explanations.... they're all good to me anyways.

 

Greetz

[gogoblender 3,070]

I agree Barristan. It sounds like a catch all to me. For a build that isn't considered to be original maybe? Well, eveything being ephemeral...does every build then become a cookie cutter in the end?

 

 

gogo

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

hmmm, you could say that yes,... maybe not all builds, but those that are being followed by others on a large scale perhaps ?

 

Or when it amounts to having only a few 'viable' builds per class around. Like D2 had Zealadin/Hammerdin/Fohadin/Smiterdin in the Paladin class...

 

Greetz

[Katran 0]

I agree Barristan. It sounds like a catch all to me. For a build that isn't considered to be original maybe? Well, eveything being ephemeral...does every build then become a cookie cutter in the end?

 

 

gogo

 

Nope not every build becomes a cookie Cutter. For it to be a cookie cutter it has to be proven special in some way(Super fast at killing; hard to die; fast regen. good shopper; fast to level or what ever it has been proven to be top at) and then it has to be used/copied by others. Only then does it become a cookie cutter build.

[gogoblender 3,070]

muhahah

 

errr...Kat, your build's pretty popular, seeing as it's got tons of replies and so many people are using it...

 

You Da Cookie Cuttah!

 

 

gogo

[Katran 0]

muhahah

 

errr...Kat, your build's pretty popular, seeing as it's got tons of replies and so many people are using it...

 

You Da Cookie Cuttah!

 

 

gogo

 

Well yea it became a cookie cutter and I think its a prefect example of it. I dont know how informed you are about the HE Gogo more the Pyro one but when I sterted playing it back in the day what I in countered was a HE setting when the BT and IS regenereation time was 3sec and 2sec and no one was using the fire demon and all HEs where dead by gold. So the build at the time was doing with the CAs everything that the others were not and today I am happy to say that I have seen at list 5 Pyro HEs in Niob alone and many others running around happy with theres. So yes the build is typical cookie cutter this days. Since it brought something new proved its value in its own right and then was accepted and played by many others. But I am sad to say it I dont have a cookie to show for it.

[gogoblender 3,070]

Saw a spider reading this, and the discussion still amuses me. Sacred 2 delves into the existential!

 

The word "cookie cutter" is catchy, and I'm still of the same opinion regarding what it actually means... all a point of view huh.

 

 

gogo

[cider_steve 26]

In answer to Gogo's original question, it is to do with :-Gingerbread man

[lujate 578]

The adjective cookie-cutter normally means something is all alike. It frequently carries the negative connotation of lacking individuality, personality and/or soul.

[cider_steve 26]

Mmmmm, cookie !

 

Oops, sorry for off topic.

 

I'm off to the store to buy some............fresh fruit !

 

Steve.

[gogoblender 3,070]

No more cookies Steve? Missed this post.

Your sentiment's never off-topic

 

 

gogo

[Veracious 267]

Wow 3 year conversation lol. Is that a record?

[gogoblender 3,070]

DarkMatters is about 8 years old, so there's a lot of really old topics.

Since we mostly do support and reference for the Sacred Franchise, we can have ongoing discussions that have merit or recurring relevance connected to new methods of game distribution, such as when Steam updated it's Sacred 2 offerings/pricing.

 

 

gogo